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Offline bob hess

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v-8 pinto
« on: August 20, 2014, 09:26:20 AM »
Hey Guys ,
Any & all help would be greatly appreciated.
I've been a Ford Guy all my life . ( Shelby , mustangs mostly ) . And recently  fell in love with what I've seen other guys do with V-8 pintos .
So my question is , I read to beware of " junk " V-8 swaps . How can one tell what is a good swap ?
I'm very busy , so I'm considering having a exp. shop ( Phily, NJ area ) do most of the drive train install for me .  I'm shopping for a 79 / 80 runabout now . Any idea of the cost for Labor .   ( I know the sky's  the limit when it comes to HiPo parts.
Many Thanks ,
Bob

Offline Reeves1

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2014, 07:06:47 PM »
What are your plans for the car ?
Street / strip ?

Or ?

Offline bob hess

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2014, 02:45:10 PM »
What are your plans for the car ?
Street / strip ?

Or ?
For the most part a HOT street car. But one that can be driven , too & from the track. I'll compromise low e t's for good cornering. 
Wish list : 351 W   300 - 375 HP . ?? Street Blower on Pumped (Prem.) gas .
Something my Mustangs friends will take seriously .

Offline dick1172762

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2014, 02:58:03 PM »
V-8 Pinto's corner like a drunk sailor. Most of that heavy V-8 is in front of the cross member. Just keep it going in a straight line and you'll be ok.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline bob hess

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2014, 03:09:41 PM »
So you are saying , a V-8 pinto can't handle at  least as well as a 64-68 V-8 mustang ????
Tons of V-8 swaps in history . Cobra, Tigers , MBG-gt's . Or should I be better off  looking in to a HOT V-6. Or is that still TOO heavy ?

Offline dick1172762

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2014, 03:46:29 PM »
No way a V-8 Pinto will handle as well as a 64 to 70 Mustang. Those cars were killer Trans-Am race cars. Repeat after me (V-8 Pintos will not handle). Sorry but that's the truth.
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Offline bob hess

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2014, 05:44:30 PM »
Hey Guys , is a V-8 swap really  THAT bad an idea ( I'd like it to handle as well as a 64-68 / sorry friends 69-72 Must. DO NOT HANDLE,  TOO HEAVY . I had a 69 Mach 1 .)

ANY input on a   V-6  swap  ( would it handle ? ) Trans -Am tricks ( wider tiers , Fat  F & R Sway Bars , lowering ) . Or do I have to go back to my old Mustang Club ?

Any handling tricks you guys have done that made a Big difference , that would help a V-6 , or V-8 swap ????

Sorry , I'm just NOT a fan of 4 bangers !!

Offline Reeves1

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2014, 07:01:41 PM »
The 72 I built in the early 70s - 302w - would handle a corner as fast as I wanted to take it.
I had up-graded the front springs & had air shocks in the back & 9".
Handled the corners nearly as good as bro's 69 Mach 1 428 SCJ.
He drove my car & says the same.

This 72 I'm working on now has M ll with A/C front springs. Cut down to 3 & 3/4" less coils than 6 full coils though. Stiff. I want to keep the headers off the ground....so not lowered. BOSS 302.
I do not expect this one to corner well.
Diff is a narrowed 9". I can fit 29 x 18.50 x 15s completely under the fender wells: it's a straight line car.

Having said all that....if you want something that will corner, do a real hot V6. Keeps the weight back enough that with suspension mods it will out corner a V8 by a long shot.

No one will build a V8 & expect it to corner well.

Why a blower or a 351w for such low HP ?
A 302w can far exceed that with simple mods ?

My B2 will have about 550 HP (if he ever gets it done).

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2014, 09:50:48 PM »
Old bigblock Mustangs don't handle worth a darn either.

Ironically, the 2.3T engine weighs only slightly less than a 302. If you want a compact and lightweight V8 that can make a lot of power, you are probably limited to an all-aluminum 302 ($$$) or a GM 4.8-5.3L V8. A 351W weighs at least 50lbs more than a 302.

A small Japanese aluminum V6 might be an option. I like the Toyota 5VZ-FE, but it's an iron block and not that small as V6s go. (DOHC makes the heads very big)
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Offline pintoman1972

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2014, 08:02:10 PM »
Bob,

It's all a matter of what you want the car to do, how much time and money you are willing to spend and then following through on it.

Does my Blown V-8 Pinto handle corners well?  No because it was not built to corner.  It was built to go fast and streight.

This Pavement Pounding Pinto is now retired from drag racing and is street legal for cruise nights and car shows.

Build time, 2 1/2 years
Did it cost a lot of money, yep.
Is it fast, plenty.
Does it stop well, sure.
Is it reliable, yep
Does it get instant attention, yes.

Good gas milage, no.
Lots of maintenance, yes
Long road trips, on the trailer.

So make a list of what you want the car to do, and then you can make decisions was to how to build and so on.

Dick

Offline bob hess

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2014, 08:13:55 AM »
Thanks guys , for your feedback . So from what I count , 75-25% say the best I can expect from a ( affordable ) V8 swap , is a car that will handle as poorly as a big block mustang . Being new to the Pinto club ( but life long Ford man ) it is still hard to understand way the  ( small V8 swap ) pinto handles sooooo poorly when the Must. II ( factory V8 ) seems to handle fine. They just don't look that much different when you look at them side by side .  Or dose the Must. II have handling problems too ?
Or is it all a matter of how far forward the V8 sits in the Pinto Vs. the Must. II ?

Offline dick1172762

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2014, 06:59:05 PM »
Mustang II is a much heavier car by several hundred pounds. Never seen one at an autocross or road race in the past 40 years.
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2014, 07:09:43 PM »
MII road racers were heavily modded. Stock ones handled like dog poo.
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2014, 10:38:16 AM »
MII road racers were heavily modded. Stock ones handled like dog poo.
    That's for sure!
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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2014, 03:17:11 PM »
Part of the problem is that a V8 puts a larger portion of the car's weigh on the front tires. A V8 wagon would probably handle a little better than a V8 hatch/sedan.

I hate to say this, but GM's modern all-aluminum pushrod V8s are the lightest and smallest you're going to find short of an old Buick 215 or Rover.

I can tell you this, my '72 is noticeably more nose-heavy with just a 2.3T swap (over the 2.0) and I haven't even driven it yet. Word around the campfire is that a 2.3T is only 10-20lbs lighter than a 5.0 of the same vintage.
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Offline bob hess

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2014, 06:59:09 AM »
Is that the truth ? that a 2.3 L is only 20 pounds less then a 302 ?
And didn't the 2.3 L come in the 79-80 Pintos ?
SOOOOOOOOOOOOO O , why would a (302) V-8 swap  NOT WORK in a 79 - 80 Pinto ?
You can move the battery to the trunk , and there is most of your extra 20 pounds .
Sorry guys . But I'm still not seeing why the v-8 swap would kill the handling so .
That's assuming the 2.3L / 302 , 20 pound thing is true .
PLEASE HELP BEFORE I NEED TO GO BACK THE MY OLD MUSTANG CLUB .
I really do love the little Pinto ( Had one about 10 yrs. ago ). But just can't do the 4 banger thing.

Offline Pintocrazed

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2014, 09:09:45 AM »
GOOD HANDLING OR BAD HANDLING WHAT DOES IT MATTER YOU WANT A V8 PINTO BUILD IT.

Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2014, 10:15:53 AM »
He said that a 2.3 TURBO weighs close to a 302, not a n/a 2.3, Pintos never came with a turbo 2.3
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2014, 11:01:33 AM »
It would take some meticulous weighing on every part of a V8 swap to prove it but my guess is that a 302 with aluminum heads & intake, headers instead of manifolds & a lightweight flywheel could probably come within 50 pounds of a stock 2.3 turbo with steel flywheel, T3/stock manifold & stock intercooler but a stock 2.3 is a lot lighter than the 2.3T.

A little weight would be farther forward but eliminating the battery & a heavy bumper could counteract that. That said, I doubt it could handle as well as an N/A 2.0 or 2.3 would because those are still easily 100 pounds lighter. 100 pounds doesn't sound like much on a 4000 pound car but a Pinto weighs 2400 so that weight combined with it's placement can definitely affect handling.
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2014, 11:52:11 AM »
VERY GOOD MATH.
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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2014, 12:15:53 PM »
He said that a 2.3 TURBO weighs close to a 302, not a n/a 2.3, Pintos never came with a turbo 2.3

My point was that a 2.3T makes the car a lot more nose-heavy and a 302 weighs more than a 2.3T, therefore _____.

I've seen mention that a 2.3NA is in the 315lb range, but I find that hard to believe. All the iron and steel hung on the exhaust side of a 2.3T does not amount to 135lbs+. Ergo, either a 2.3T is a lot lighter than everyone thinks or a 2.3NA is a lot heavier than 315.
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2014, 12:24:20 PM »
I can lift & move a 2.3 shortblock myself & carry the head easily. Even dressed I'd be amazed if it's 315 pounds. I'd believe 260-ish
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2014, 04:44:28 PM »
On April 4 2014, Chopchop weighed his 2.3 complete less power steering pump, clutch disk and pressure plate but with flywheel. It weighed 386 lbs. Look up Chopchop posting to see more.
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Offline bob hess

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2014, 10:11:51 PM »
If we plug in the above weights . ( non turbo ) 2.3 L engine as a factory weight of very near 400 - 420 lbs. Vs. a 289-302 of 460 lbs.  Some are saying the 40 - 60 lbs . is making a big difference in the handling of a 2400 lb. Pinto.
So ,one moves the battery , replaces with alum. : intake , heads , oil pan , all pulleys , light weight flywheel (and if one can find it ) an alum water pump . Now the pricey part :Finding a pro drag racing fiberglass tilt front end .
Any flaw in this ??
Other then the fiberglass front end & the aluminum heads , it should be within a fair budget .
SOOOOOOOOOOOO , unless I missed a big item . Why are so many saying the 302 swap is such a bad idea for a part time drag car that can "  handle "  the rest of the time . From the # of readers I see , there is a lot of interest in a small V-8 Pinto  that can handle .So why hasn't anyone out lined  this in print ? As a do able swap ?

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2014, 07:02:22 AM »
An assumption is being made that a stock Pinto with a 2.3L actually handles well. They don't. My 95 Neon 4 door work car can turn circles around any of my Pintos
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Offline Reeves1

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2014, 06:31:58 PM »
Have to remember the weight of a V8 moves it forward. Everything is. Even the rad goes in front of the rad support.

As far as an aluminum water pump, lots made. If you look in my topic on the white car, you will find the numbers for a short one, that gives an extra 1.5" of clearance.

Offline randyg

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2014, 08:26:43 PM »
I have a V-8 in my 71 and it is brutally fast. I agree with the handling part. It can be downright scary. Now if I had it to do over again, here is what I would do. Find a 305 hp 3.7 v6 from a 2011 or new Mustang and put it in the Pinto. Im not sure of the dimensions but I dont have fenderwells, just tubing to deal with. My 13stang with the v6 and a tune with 4.10 gears rips most 2010 and older stangs.
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2014, 09:36:25 PM »
Have to remember the weight of a V8 moves it forward. Everything is. Even the rad goes in front of the rad support.

As far as an aluminum water pump, lots made. If you look in my topic on the white car, you will find the numbers for a short one, that gives an extra 1.5" of clearance.
      Can you get us a little closer on that white car water pump post.
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Offline Reeves1

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2014, 04:50:48 AM »
      Can you get us a little closer on that white car water pump post.

I think this is the one:

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/STREET_ROD_SHORT_V_BELT_WATER_PUMP_p/m-8501-e351s.htm

Very minimum you have to change the crank pulley as well. I changed all & got them from here:

http://www.cvfracing.com/ford-small-block-pulleys-s/165.htm

Offline dick1172762

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Re: v-8 pinto
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2014, 08:09:21 AM »
Thanks Reeves1. Do you have a link to the Volvo water pump conversion for a small block Ford engine? Someone posted it on this site several years ago. It gave you even more clearance. Thanks again.
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