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Offline bbobcat75

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Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« on: November 23, 2015, 05:51:28 PM »
Stupid question. My 77 wagon will start but as soon as I let go of the key from the start to accessory postion it dies! Bad starter solenoid or bad ignition switch. Or any other options????    Ready go!!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2015, 08:45:10 PM »
It won't run in the accessory position, but it sounds like you only have power to the distributor in crank position, trace your wiring from the run position on the switch to the coil, could be a bad switch???.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2015, 10:29:16 PM »
Was thinking bad switch. Starter solenoid or module 
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 04:30:41 AM »
Looking at a 77 wiring diagram, I do not see how a bad starter solenoid could cause this problem.  Suspect the problem is in the ignition switch, module, and/or wiring/connectors.  If you do not have wiring diagrams to help trace the problem, I can scan those pages.  If desired, PM me your email address and I will send them.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 06:44:47 AM »
If the module is bad it won't run at all but it runs as long as it's crank mode,when he backs off to run position it dies means power is cut off somewhere, gotta be a connection or bad switch I'm thinking bad switch, a test light should tell.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 12:17:29 PM »
Have power at both sides of coil while starting as soon as I let go of  the key power is gone
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 12:39:14 PM »
my guess is the ignition switch - had a old module and plugged that in same result - found yellow wire at starter solenoid broken and only held on by one little strain  - repaired that and still same out come so guessing the ignition switch kicked the bucket - its just weird that it started right up from work drove home (friday) then monday morning for work was a strong crank just would not stay running - thought it was low on fuel!! ( i wish it was!! )
 
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 12:53:47 PM »
What about a coil?? would that be the source ???

1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 01:31:50 PM »
If the coil was bad it wouldn't run I don't think you're getting power to the coil, with the key in the run position check to see if you have power coming to the coil, the wire connected to the positive side of the coil.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 02:47:24 PM »
WITH KEY IN "ON" POSITION - NO POWER
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 02:52:07 PM »
MY thinking is that its a faulty ignition switch -  of course the only part my parts vendor doesnt have instock - everything else is on the shelf!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 06:32:08 PM »
Assuming you are saying there is no power at the coil while the ignition switch is in the run position.  The prime suspect is the ignition switch but it still could be a wire or connector problem.  Suggest checking for power at the switch output (red with light green hash marks wire) with the switch in the run position to verify the switch is the problem.  This wire also feeds the warning lights via fuse #6, so if the engine warning light is on with the ign. sw. in the run position and the engine off, the problem is further down stream and not the switch.  If so, maybe the resistor wire or a connector is bad.  Just trying to avoid possible good part replacement.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2015, 07:02:58 AM »
thanks oldkayaker - my oil light comes on in the cluster when the key is in the run position - so your saying its further down stream - (GREAT!!) want to just swap a part and be done - but figures a car I was going to part out but decided to give a second chance is getting closer to the parts car!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2015, 07:05:52 AM »
add another stupid question - a ignition switch can just go like a light bulb?? work one time then not another? figured it would give me some type of sign of going out - or failing. but i guess it is electrical part so anything is possible.
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2015, 07:15:37 AM »
Don't happen all the time but it can happen, it happened to me before anyhow.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2015, 01:55:04 PM »
NEW igntion switch - and still does the same thing - but with new coil wont start?
my guess is a bad connection between switch and out to coil - fuse is good -
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2015, 05:05:23 PM »
The fuse #6 feeds the warning lights.  The 12V+ feed to the fuse #6 is from the ignition switch run & start out put.  The coil gets fed from the input side of the fuse #6 and not from fused side of #6.  This coil feed is a resistance wire ~1.1 ohms colored red with light green hash marks.  It runs from the input side of fuse #6 to connector C201 located behind the instrument cluster (the picture indicates a 4x2 connector).  At the connector C201 it is joined by the brown with pink hash mark wire from the ignition switch start only position.  From the connector C201 to the coil there is a single red light green hash marked wire.  Since it works in start, the path from C201 to the coil appears to be working.  So the problem seems to be with the resistance wire and/or its connection at the fuse #6 input and/or at C201.  Suggest inspecting and wiggle testing the resistance wire at these connections.  If no success, suggest replacing resistance wire with a after market ignition coil resistor of about 1.1 ohms.  It is difficult to verbally describe wiring, so ask if there is question.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2015, 08:52:17 PM »
Found wire (red) under dad that someone has used a screw connector on that was broken. Found other side - connected and car starts!!!! But when connected arcs like crazy and starts to smoke!! One one is coming out of a green plug connector.  Not sure where wires are going or coming??? Any info would be GREAT!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2015, 06:12:10 AM »
A arcing/smoking connection indicates a high resistance (bad) connection that needs to be fixed now.  Unfortunately the EVTM wiring diagram that am using does not show connector colors.  I do not have experience splicing resistance wire, maybe some body else will chime in on how to safely splice it.  If it were mine and do to my lack of experience with resistance wire, I would replace the resistance wire with an after market ignition coil resistor using normal copper wire between connector C201 and the fuse #6 input.  If you do use an after market ignition coil resistor, be sure to mount it away from things as they can get hot.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2015, 08:45:24 PM »
Well it's up and running !!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2015, 08:47:10 PM »
GREAT, what was the problem.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2015, 07:58:41 AM »
Found large red wire behind cluster was broken - pervious owner had it wire nutted together! fixed with proper repair - man this is a wiring nightmare! pervious owner liked house wire nuts!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2015, 08:39:57 AM »
I've bought vehicles like that before, some even used household light switches for toggle switches.  ::)
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Turns over starts and stalls out??😧
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2015, 02:20:39 PM »
GOING to just take to local autocross a couple of times and sell soon after! currently have 4 pintos/bobcats - only really need 2 so will be selling soon!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car