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Offline gaeliccouple

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Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« on: November 02, 2013, 05:36:37 PM »
I keep hearing how the 2.0 stock Pinto intake manifold is much better than the 2.3 manifold. Sooo Will the intake manifold off a stock 2.0 pinto motor bolt straight onto a 2.3 cylinder head without modifications?????

Offline gaeliccouple

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2013, 06:23:49 PM »
Any other question: is the stock 2.0 intake really better? and is it worth using it to replace the stock 2.3?

I guess what I am asking is how can the intake manifold on the 2.3 be improved to gain horsepower. Is there a good after market intake that would bolt right on the 2.3? If so what kind of horsepower can be gained?

Offline Pintosopher

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 06:26:10 PM »
I'm pretty sure these two engines have no common castings, So The 2.0 L is a European design , the 2.3 L is a USA engine, no interchange without mods to ports and  bolt patterns.
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Offline gaeliccouple

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 09:01:54 PM »
Thank you for the feedback. I just looked at the web link for the Offenhauser Ford 4 cyl. 2300 Pinto 4 bbl. Aluminum Intake. It's a mere $325! Then you must consider the cost of buying the actual carb!

But if I did get it and strapped a four barrel on my 2300 what would the difference really be? Wouldn't be too much carburetor for a 2300?

Offline amc49

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2013, 03:54:26 AM »
Yes it would be too much carb unless you used like a 390 cfm 4 bbl. You could always run the front two barrels only by yanking the connection to the back barrels if using say a 600. The front of a 600 would be about 350 cfm, same size venturi and base butterflies. If a dual port though I do not know which level the primaries use, it would be better if it uses the top upper level. Been a long while since I saw one.

The 2.0 to 2.3 deal needs an adapter plate, two different bolt patterns there. I made one many years ago. it used to be sold but no one makes them anymore.

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 02:06:27 AM »
No, in short.

A 4 bbl Holley is too much for any 4 cylinder unless: a) You're running wide open from dawn til dawn. b) Nitrous.

Is: "Just...no..." allowed?

Too much air without an oxidizer...you can't advance a distributor far enough to eat that much air...

Yes...you can run a 4 bbl...wide open...if you're racing...even then...can you tune by ear/exhaust smell??? Most can't.

(Way more jets than I would even dream about wanting to tune to a 4 banger!!!) lol

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 07:51:25 AM »
Anybody ever try a Q-Jet, they have small primaries?.
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Offline amc49

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 08:52:12 PM »
The screwy GM bolt pattern. There was a Qjet used around the '80s? that had only the front barrels machined and a big blank at the back barrels and no back barrel parts there at all. Thinking used on V-6. Regular 4 bbl. Qjet was referred to as a '4MC', thinking the other was a '2MC'. Then they literally whacked off the back of casting entirely to keep front two barrels only, the Dual Jet carb, but still uses the four barrel bolt pattern thinking.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 09:27:09 PM »
Well, bolt pattern is no biggie but did it actually work?, probably not good enough since you don't see or hear about it?..
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Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2013, 07:02:36 PM »
I ran the Holley 390 on my 2.0 but the engine was modified. At one time I ran a 350 Holley 2bbl but the 390 ran better due to the smaller primaries. I hate to sound like a broken record but you guys are thinking of spending big bucks to get more power from a stock engine. A bigger carb won't do anything but use more gas. I keep preaching about doing a simple, cheap, easy to do mod and it falls on deaf ears.  :P
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2013, 07:16:11 PM »
A bigger carb won't do anything but use more gas. I keep preaching about doing a simple, cheap, easy to do mod and it falls on deaf ears.  :P
LOL, that's been going on for decades, the ole "if big is good bigger is better" thing, it just won't sink in,LOL. Would like to hear your easy mod though since I'm new to these small motors.
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Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2013, 12:56:25 PM »
 Would like to hear your easy mod though since I'm new to these small motors.
[/quote]
You did. It's the cam degree mod. I just can't get people to believe how much better the engine runs when the cam is in time with the crank like it's supposed to be.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2013, 01:53:56 PM »
You did. It's the cam degree mod. I just can't get people to believe how much better the engine runs when the cam is in time with the crank like it's supposed to be.
Ahh ok thanks, I did read it and a very easy deal at that, can't imagine why anyone wouldn't do it if anything for warranty, if the cam is off from the MFG and you fire it up it's yours you can't send it back.
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Offline amc49

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2013, 11:26:15 PM »
'I hate to sound like a broken record but you guys are thinking of spending big bucks to get more power from a stock engine. A bigger carb won't do anything but use more gas.'

X2 and I'll drink to that. Especially on these low velocity heads. Fuel dropout happens easier than spit on them.

Odd though on the AMC cars we used to drag race, the bigger carb rule did not hold nearly so true. I dropped from 15.20s to 14.70s 1/4 miles simply dumping the stock Motorcraft 4300 650 cfm 4 bbl. and going to an 800 cfm Holley doublepumper on an otherwise dead stock 360 inch ATX car with closed exhaust and no headers and 3.15 rear gear. You absolutely would never be able to run that much carb with a 350 Chevy SBC. And car ran fine with it even in putter traffic situations. On the 390 street race engines we ran a Holley 4500 Dominator and car loved it. Dead stock 390 would run an 850 doublepumper all day long like a stock carb. We always attributed it to how well the engines breathed, AMC V-8 engines were vastly underrated.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2013, 10:49:19 AM »
Well now, my story! I put a Hooker header and a 390 carb along with the 4 barrel intake onto my sons 74 Pinto (2.3L) and it ran like it picked 50 HP. Made all the difference in the world. Years later I talked to a big shot at Ford, who told me that in their testing on the 2.3L, it made NO difference what carb they used because the intake was made the way it is by the bean counters. Very CHEAP to make. The Esslinger intake for the 2.0 and 2.3 is the same way. Center runners are half the length of the outside runners. This makes the outside two lean while the center two are pig rich. It can be fixed, but many $$$$. Much better to use a late Mustang intake. Don't worry about the fact that your putting D port over Oval ports as this really work good. And for the street, you can plug the injector holes with pipe plugs so no welding is necessary. Racer Walsh has the adapters to fit the FI intake. Try it, you'll like it.
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Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2013, 05:38:59 PM »
Right you are Dick. The D port mated to the oval port head is the best way to go. It creates a "waterfall" effect. The EFI intake with the adaptor is about as good as it gets in stock form.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2013, 09:21:59 PM »
Any particular year intake is better?..
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2013, 09:31:58 AM »
Only thing I know, is that they all look the same except, some have a 3/8"hole in the center of the flange where the adapter will go. Its about 1" deep and is easy to fix by taping the hole and screwing in a bolt, then cutting it off flush. Its kind'a like looking at a Pinto wheel, and the lug hole are the ports, and the center hole is the 3/8' hole in the center of the wheel. Easy fix. Only problem I see is the air cleaner clearance. I've built an adapter to run a hose to one of those cone shape filters. I've been told by several dirt trackers that a stock air cleaner will be close, but will work. Try it, you'll like it.
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2013, 08:33:53 PM »
Thanks, I'll have to start looking for one.
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Offline amc49

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Re: Will a stock 2.0 intake bolt right onto a stock 2.3 motor???
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2013, 12:08:13 AM »
I wanted to try that as well back in the day but never got around to it, looked like it would work even better than the 2.0 manifold deal, which worked pretty good.

And, just to make a point, you can have vastly different lengths in intake runners and them still work pretty good if basic shapes are right. Just because two are short and two are long means nothing sometimes. Vizard checked the 2.0 intake and came away with around 93% efficient all passages considered as far as the flow bench went. Sure you'd like them all to be the same but the real world comes knocking. Edelbrock made fortunes by using different size passages on their X style manifolds to make up for differences in length. It's not the length, rather the VOLUME of the runner that counts. Look at a Torker manifold, none of the runners are same length and all will be different size passages as well, the shorter ones will be bigger and the longer ones smaller and port them to all the same internal size and watch the manifold lose 25 HP faster than spit.

I have no idea what one means by a 'waterfall effect', the D port manifold works by keeping flow at the port roof where most of the action is at that point anyway, putting it on a D port head should be even better. The lower 1/3 of a 2.3 intake port entry is pretty much dead air anyway and the head filled there will speed up action in the rest of the port. And why D ports often work anyway. When the relatively dead slower air in bottom of port gets to the restriction at the valve guide it tends to interfere with the upper faster flow to make for turbulence. Cut it off so all is rushing at closer to the same speed and then it all gets around the turn faster and smoother.

Pretty much a waste of time flowing a header, you are testing there in a fashion that does not imitate the real world, exhaust first cuts loose in the pipe like a stick of dynamite, with pressure rushing through at sonic speeds. No flowbench on earth can test at close to those conditions. The choice of pipe sizes and close to equal length will have far more impact there. A flowbench cannot reproduce the exhaust gas plug effect firing down the pipe at all.