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Offline dianne

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The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« on: February 24, 2014, 12:40:11 PM »
This car backfires and sputters when started and until it gets warm. The biggest problem here is that some days it's hard to start. The car sat for about 2 1/2 months to 3 months during the winter when I was driving *cough* the BMW that's been sold for a 70 Galaxie. So it was hard starting, real bad and I didn't start it for months when it was sitting there honestly. But got it started and driving it. Some days the thing starts just fine and other days it won't start at all. My mechanic thinks it's the fuel pump and I don't know. Fuel pump is available for $35.00 and labor locally.

It just seems to me, but what do I know, that there is something else wrong here. This morning it started right now, but others it did not. Any clues to what it might be? Seems to be wetter out and higher humidity when it's not starting well. Mornings and evenings, seems funny, is when I'm having a problem. Seems to be OK other days.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline dianne

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2014, 04:04:03 PM »
Someone just suggested that I toss some Heat in the tank. Might have some moisture or water in there from sitting all winter here. It's a cheap try anyways...

Or I'll be checking the cap for condensation.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline beaner

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2014, 04:19:19 PM »
try a new set of points and condenser with a cap and plugs and wires too
brad :)

Offline dianne

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2014, 04:22:37 PM »
I'll do that also :) All cheap fixes :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2014, 09:38:08 PM »
Moisture in the cap, next time it's wet out pop the cap it'll probably be wet inside.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline dianne

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 10:05:16 PM »
Well I also put some heat in the tank because it was parked inside right before winter. It's not painted and only has lacquer primer on bare metal underneath it. I got the winter gas someone told me and it sat all winter. Now if that's not true don't laugh at me LOL So it seems to have helped it also. I didn't remember the stearo that Dave put in it, it's pretty awesome listening to Led Zepplin or Black Sabbath! Going back to my youth now :-D I wasn't one of those disco girls back then ahahahaha

I gotta paint it sooner than later because now it's sitting outside but when it sits and I'm driving the Galaxy for some time now I have a 7 layer cover for it. I have a Too many cars I guess. The Maverick and King are in there being stripped. He said that I need to start these at least once a week I guess. They all have mechanical fuel pumps. I guess the gas can run back into the gas tank. I think the Model T was gravity feed.

I did the heat thing adn my mechanic will change the wires and all the rest. This is a pointless distributor Dave put in the car. Pointless eh? LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline amc49

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 03:40:05 AM »
Verify if the fuel used there now has 10% ethanol in it, if so you are wasting time and money using any gas drier as your fuel is already carrying 10% of it. Ethanol is commonly used as a gas drier along with methanol or isopropyl, all alcohols of different types. They pull moisture to them and carry it on  through. That can be bad if the tank system is not airtight though, then they will always pull any water out of the airspace in the tank and why you fill tank all the way up if letting car sit for a while. The gas cap must seal properly, commonly they don't on pre-emission cars, they were not designed to very well. Nowadays the tank system is tightly sealed from the elements and you can let car sit longer with no ethanol problems. Carbed cars really hate ethanol, I have several that sit and since ethanol showed up my bringing a car back up after sitting problems have multiplied from very little trouble to a real b-tch now sometimes. The residual sugar left in the ethanol has a tendency to make the float needles stick, they stick lightly and usually open since the ethanol has a much greater tendency to evaporate from fuel bowl much more than plain fuel did. The sticking open then floods car right when you go to start it, they commonly can then unstick after a few seconds but by then plug already wet and foul city and no start or runs like crap for a little bit until plug burns clean again. I have pulled more than one carb apart to simply lightly touch the needle to then have it unstick and it then goes to working normally after that, of course by then you have torn up carb gaskets to get that far. A real pain.......... .........it also messes with fuel pump check valves as well and the pump can work or not work with nothing really wrong with it other than it's stuck up a little bit. The rubber checks do not like ethanol at all. You will get far more ultra-fine powdered rust as well the ethanol rusts steel tanks and why all now are plastic. The fine dust goes right through most fuel filters out there especially if you use the very small crap factory Ford filters that screw directly into carb. They are so small they are virtually worthless and can make you think pump is dead when only filter is clogged. I use nothing but real big filters cut into the line further down now, having gone through filter hell several years back, the car just kept clogging them at the rate of like one every two weeks and car kept going down. Going to a really big filter stopped all that, have a look at how big they are on fuel injected cars now, that's for a reason. Ethanol by virtue of its' water carrying ability will always have far more water borne trash in it than straight fuel ever did. Changing fuel filters frequently now if they are small is a fact of life. Ask Ford about why they had to warranty thousands of early Focus fuel pumps when there was nothing wrong with them except for early ethanol that was not filtered nearly as well as they do now, it cost them millions in recall actions. It happened to both of mine, simply pulling module and cleaning the three filters there fixed them to go back on and run fine, not bad for an expected $400 charge apiece for the new module needed. Now the ethanol is filtered better after thousands of complaints and no trouble any more.

 Your problem could simply be ignition, have someone go over it all but if you are running duraspark then shouldn't be that unless coil is dying. Maybe check the reluctor gap, it needs to be as close as possible without ever contacting the pickup, closer makes the impulses stronger to the ignition module, that makes them more reliable as a stream. I look for like slightly under .010" if the distributor shaft is still good and tight. The pickup coil can be easily checked for resistance as well. After that it will be the module.

Ethanol laced fuel is always harder to start on cold wet days as a norm, the ignition must be really dead on to pull engine up quickly without fouling plugs. These foul easy anyway, the heads are known for fuel fallout problems because of the really crap port design. Why the later 2.3s went to D-port, to take some volume out of them to speed flow up to stop fallout. 2.0 pretty bad about it too. The port is too big and too low and a hard right angle right at the valve pocket then separates fuel from air to foul plugs. Add to that the ethanol A/F ratio  is 9/1 instead of straight gas 14/1 and you can easily be way too lean or too rich since the car does not have a PCM to correct like later ones which retune mixture instantly. Carbed motor in good running shape will be slightly too lean if jetting has never been messed with. The ethanol just by being there can easily wildly tilt the A/F ratio one way or the other to not start easy though and why carbs zoop using it. Go to driving car everyday and the vast majority of the trouble will go away. It's when they sit the problems begin. I'd swear it's a plan to force all pre-emission collector cars off the road but don't listen to me, they'll tell you I'm crazy......... .............. ....

I feel the pain as well, I have an inline 4 CB550F that sits a lot, runs perfectly once sorted out but it tries to stick all 4 carbs to just pour fuel out of it when first cranked after sitting for as little as two weeks. I have developed a procedure to lightly blow air into the fuel line now just to 'pop' the needles loose so I can get around all the issues much faster and easier. I really got tired of repeatedly yanking the carb bank over and over simply to pull bowls to unstick the needles. Tapping on the sides was absolutely worthless.

If you have three lines going to pump you can block the bypass back to the tank to get better fuel pump action, we used to do it at the shop to peoples' cars all the time and never suffered any bad result doing it. Might be well for someone to look at choke setting too.

You can short out inside cap with no detectable moisture at all FYI........... .....look for carbon tracking it will be there if doing it. If you can find a Tempo distributor rubber protector you can put it on a 2.0 distributor to lower the temperature swings it goes through. I always yanked mine off and tossed them as I had no trouble there at all. Watch the ignition wires to make sure they are not running next to each other to bleed voltage from one to another, that can happen just like inside the cap if wires run next to each other, theoretically they should never do more than cross each other, any running next to each other for like 2 inches plus is bad and worse as ignition voltage gets higher. Use wire holders to keep them from laying heavy on metal valve covers too.

I haven't bought a cap or rotor in like thirty years, I simply tune them up by taking off any deposit off posts and rebend the center electrode to press slightly harder against the center carbon cap button which must be there. I wipe the cap inside out with alcohol too. Simple parts, they last forever if taken care of and no need to change if working OK. On my 2.3 Mustang II I had a 2.0 manifold, it comes really close to the #1 intake runner. I cut off two of the top cap posts (already using the short cap) and then took them low out of the side of cap instead, once worked out it ran perfectly after that; necessity is the mother of butchery they say........

Offline dianne

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 07:26:59 AM »
Whew, I didn't think of that! I lost a lawn mover last year from it I was told by the shop I brought it to, then he showed me a pile of engines.

I can't find any gas stations without ethanol to be honest, and I've looked.

I'm going to print this out and give it to my mechanic.

Thanks!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 08:59:33 AM »
I don't think you can get gas anymore without Ethanol in it, unless you get race gas or Avgas.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2014, 10:06:38 AM »
A 10% Ethanol blend is mandated by the clowns in DC to assure the farmers a healthy kickback for their corn crops.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2014, 10:38:25 AM »
That's about it.. >:(
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline dianne

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2014, 11:54:32 AM »
Well, it's killing lawn mowers that for certain and other small engines.

I'll get some inline fuel filters for all my cars I guess.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline dga57

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2014, 12:40:25 PM »
I don't think you can get gas anymore without Ethanol in it, unless you get race gas or Avgas.
That depends on where you live.  Do an internet search for ethanol-free gasoline in your area.  I have one filling station about five miles from me and another about eight miles away that have it.  Pricier, but worth it!

Dwayne :)
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2014, 01:31:43 PM »
CONOCO has it but only in super duper hi $$$. Better than nothing.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline dianne

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2014, 02:56:19 PM »
CONOCO has it but only in super duper hi $$$. Better than nothing.

Well I don't have Conocos here :( Oh well, stuck with corn in my tank I guess.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline sedandelivery

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2014, 03:06:26 PM »
We had a station here that advertised ethanol-free gasoline, then he said by law he had to sell ethanol mix in the gasoline. Ethanol corrodes small engine carburetors which I can attest to. Was the owner right? It was a Good-2-Go station.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2014, 04:48:49 PM »
It looks like it may get rolled back this year but who knows.
 
http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/ethanol-mandates-put-the-squeeze-on-small-businesses/
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Offline beaner

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2014, 05:53:15 PM »
im going to run E85 gas in my pinto  ;D  the carb is set for my engine cheeper than race gas  ;)
 
brad :)

Offline dianne

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2014, 06:57:46 PM »
It looks like it may get rolled back this year but who knows.
 
http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/ethanol-mandates-put-the-squeeze-on-small-businesses/

Nothing new here, Big Government hates us small businesses :(
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline dianne

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2014, 06:58:58 PM »
Nothing new here, Big Government hates us small businesses :(

Me likes the motor a LOT! Can't wait to get the King engine back :D
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2014, 09:16:09 PM »
That depends on where you live.  Do an internet search for ethanol-free gasoline in your area.  I have one filling station about five miles from me and another about eight miles away that have it.  Pricier, but worth it!

Dwayne :)

Man you're lucky no such thing around Ca and Az, and pretty soon we'll be getting ready for the BS summer blend(another way to raise prices).. >:(
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2014, 09:21:08 PM »
im going to run E85 gas in my pinto  ;D  the carb is set for my engine cheeper than race gas  ;)
 
brad :)

At some point I plan to step up to a 3.4L Whipple or KB Mammoth on my 07 Stang & I'm going to set it up with an E85 tune to see if I can surpass 900 RWHP but I want a pump premium tune for daily driving.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Offline amc49

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Re: The 2000 in my 73 Wagon with some issues
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2014, 11:08:13 PM »
It depends on whether you live around a big city and if that area is or is not making it to EPA emissions levels that trigger the necessity of addition of oxygenated fuel. Some areas further out and less populated do not have to have it, it being up to the states to determine their own best air cleanup plan. The 10% number is a joke, commonly here you can find it up to 20% and well over what is mandated. The oil company adds too much because cheaper than fuel is and the extra ethanol drops fuel mileage even more to make you fill up more. All the dealerships around here now routinely test the ethanol content of all warranty work cars that come in, if over 10% they disavow warranty and you have to pay for the repair out of pocket. A quick way of avoiding fixing their cars for free.

FYI, I used to print several prospectus for ethanol companies back when I printed, the government subsidizes the cost heavily, if they drop out of that then you will see it vanish overnight because it still costs from $5-$6/gallon if you pay the full cost. With the subsidy in place the price then drops like a rock to be cheaper than straight gas. All the company owners stated in the financials that if the subsidy goes away it would 'adversely affect the company', or techspeak for 'we'll lose our -ss'.............. ....if only.......... ...

I hate ethanol but if you can't pass a tailpipe test it is good to dump some in, it cleans up emissions by a good chunk.

It does attack certain rubbers and metal after a while, the water combines when pulled out of the air to make acid that then results in curious hit or miss corrosion that begins to show up in cars that sit. It will rust up tanks incredibly though, most in-tank fuel pumps I used to warranty at thew parts store came from that, they would be just buried in rust mud there and why pumps are so high now. Most people refuse to clean the fuel tank when changing a pump (required by most pump warranties now) and get ready to change it again too early by not doing so.

Smaller power equipment and boating stuff suffers first because the venting is not so airtight and emissions control systems do not seal so well on them. The issue is aspiration of air that occurs every time temperature changes, the longer pathways down long tubing in cars stops most fresher air from getting to the fuel unlike the short pathways lawn mowers, chainsaws use to venting. You still can get around it though, I've gotten 15 years plus each out of the last two mowers I've had. I just pull them down, relap exhaust in, tighten the guides back up a bit (for free) and one re-ring in there once somewhere; after that the cylinder walls will be dead on a classic aluminum to aluminum motor, the cast iron liner ones go even longer. I now routinely baggy the fuel cap and with rubber band around it when parking like the rider for the winter, or empty tank out. I haven't bought a mower either in more than 30 years, I always luck out to find an easily rebuildable one thrown out to the curb. I rebuild it and keep going. You can freshen up those engines in like one hour.

Just running E10 drops a 30 mpg car around 1 1/2-2 mpg to increase your gas cost, they certainly don't tell you that when they tell you how great the fuel is. Or how to waste enough fuel to make up for the cleaner air you got. I can hear Curly now.........NY UK, NYUK, NYUK.......... ....

I wash parts off in fuel since it is the cheapest thing I can easily get, I do it 100% outside. The ethanol laced fuel has an advantage in that when done washing part, you can blast it with the garden hose to remove all the oily residue that straight gas used to leave, the ethanol allows the water to cut that residue off and parts pretty much dry out to be bone dry. How fast does ethanol fuel dry? Drip some on a hot mower (DON'T blow yourself up!!!) in like summer to watch it evap so fast it's unbelievable, the ethanol greatly increased the evap rate of common gasoline...... ..........why it dries up in carb bowls so fast too. If I am going to start up a car that has sat for awhile I now routinely pour some fuel back in carb vent to let the VOCs loosen things up like accel pump diaphragms and other rubber parts, otherwise they may tear when you work the throttle on a dry carb. I do it like 24 hours before car is to be started. Same with the bike, if you simply fuel and start it may leak from 50 o-ring leaks, let fuel sit in parts and the o-rings swell back out overnight to make carb back to fuel tight the next day. I've saved several o-ring jobs just doing that, one should try buying unobtanium oddball o-ring sizes at like $7 (X4) each, after a little of that you will explore other options....... .............. ......