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Offline 82expghost

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t5 questions!
« on: June 09, 2016, 12:07:13 AM »
Im currently running a t9 transmission, in the glory of boost, it decided that it no longer liked 3rd gear and spit it out, so now 3rd grinds a little, and 4th and 5th now whine, so I guess its time to go t5

my question is, best input shaft? what gear ratios do some cars have? I have no clue what direction I need to start, I do know that it does not need to be cable, I can do a hydro clutch

and I would like a gear ratio close to what a t9 is, I love the even spaced apart ratios

info t9 ratios
1st-  3:36
2nd- 1:81
3rd- 1:26
4th- 1:00
5th-  :83
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Offline Wittsend

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2016, 01:15:48 AM »
Just Google "T5 transmission" and there is a plethora of sites to tell you everything you want to know.  For the record the 2.3 version of the T5 has a different input shaft length than other T5's. And, it's first gear is right about 4.00.

Offline 82expghost

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2016, 07:37:21 AM »
I was looking at the v6 t5 as it's 1st is about 3:37, also it's difficult to find what cars with t5s came with the clutch fork like our stock trans, because I have seen a few that are that spring loaded bar, and also, are all t5 bells interchangeabl e?

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Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2016, 06:48:54 PM »
No T-5 bell housing are engine specific IE a 2.3 will not fit on a V-6 etc. Also the 2.3 T-5 has a different input shaft than the V-8 etc. As for the clutch fork it fits just fine what some people are doing is changing the dog bone cable to a bolt system. Check with turboford.org for more info. You do know that in the U.K. shop have the rebuild kits to make the T-9 handle the boost...Just to let you know.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2016, 06:58:26 PM »
also it's difficult to find what cars with t5s came with the clutch fork like our stock trans, because I have seen a few that are that spring loaded bar

That is perhaps because none did. Well, none behind a 2.3 anyway. There is a mix 'n' match way to put a 2.3 bell on a T5 with a direct-pull cable and fork, but I don't recall which parts are needed. There is thread on here if you search for it.

There is also an adapter plate available that allows for putting an entire V8 T5 behind a 2.3. It uses a modified V8 flywheel and a 10.5" clutch and may or may not present fitment problems in a Pinto tunnel.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
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Offline 82expghost

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2016, 06:12:13 AM »
No T-5 bell housing are engine specific IE a 2.3 will not fit on a V-6 etc. Also the 2.3 T-5 has a different input shaft than the V-8 etc. As for the clutch fork it fits just fine what some people are doing is changing the dog bone cable to a bolt system. Check with turboford.org for more info. You do know that in the U.K. shop have the rebuild kits to make the T-9 handle the boost...Just to let you know.
The kits for the type 9 only go to maybe 350hp from what I found, and they are expensive

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Offline Wittsend

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2016, 04:06:41 PM »
Most of the Ford installed T-5's were only rated at 265 to 310 Ft. Lb.  You have to get up to the aftermarket trans and even there they just go to 325 Ft. Lb.

This is the source: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/349.shtml

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2016, 09:59:11 PM »
Good info on the T5 there..
Art
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Offline Wittsend

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2016, 11:07:57 PM »
Something else I'd like to mention. I've been considering a T-5 for my Sunbeam Tiger since I got it. Still on jackstands after 16 years it is more concept than "ready to do."  But since I'm hoping to finally get back to it later this summer I've been scouting out the T-5 with greater interest.  As most know I'm a "Pick Your Part" kind of guy. At their 40% off sales I can get a T-5 out the door for right around $100.  And, that would be the only route I'd go to get one.

So, what I've found is if you want the 3.35 first gear, like the original poster mentioned, and World Class version at that there is only a 10 year range (85-95) they were available. And, that means that they are all 20-30 years old.  You don't get a 300 ft. lb. trans until the last 5 years (90-95) and many of those available are the 265 ft. lb. rated 3.8 V-6 transmissions in 94-95.  Lastly none will directly bolt to the 2.3 as the input shaft is different. If you want a direct bolt in T-5 for a 2.3, then you need a 2.3 T-5.

Even in the case of my Tiger I have a 5 bolt 289. It has the vertically oriented bolt pattern (trans to bellhousing). So, I either pay $ bucks $ for a dual pattern scatter shield, or get myself a 6 bolt block (like a 302 / roller).

I said all that to say this, the T-5 is often lauded as a universal trans with  a lengthy pedigree and adapted to many unique situations.  But, even in the Ford domain where it was liberally used there are a plethora of "yea..., but's"  that need to be overcome. In the end the cost to adapt the transmission may not return the time and cost invested.

With my Turbo pinto the factory '88 2.3 t-5 is manageable. The engine is other wise stock and the transmission within the range of the build. With my Tiger the real problem is a 2.32 first gear on the close ratio trans. The wide ratio Toploader is 2.78 and far more ideal.  One other option is a Jeep Toploader, the T-178 that had a 3.01 first gear and even spacing. But that transmission has proven to be extremely elusive since most Jeeps had the granny gear 176 & 177's. To add to my insanity I have a 63 Rambler American I want to adopt a Jeep 4.0 into. That engine had a zillion transmissions hung behind it.  But, in almost ever case there is a "yea, but" that kind of negates an upgrade that would be reasonable to accomplish.  And, yes, a T-5 is one option "BUT..."

Sorry to rain on the parade but there are storm clouds on the other side of that there hill (so to speak).

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2016, 07:49:28 AM »
Anytime you try to adapt something to anything it wasn't meant for you can always expect obstacles, that goes for anything no matter what it is..
Art
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Offline Reeves1

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2016, 08:09:31 AM »
Was reading a topic not long ago of a guy building T-5s to withstand up to 600 HP.
Not sure bout that.....seems the case would be the weak point ?

Offline Wittsend

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2016, 09:33:15 AM »
I re-read this this morning. One thing we have not commented on was the "hydro clutch" (specifically). For years when the subject came up I had assumed people were talking about the hydraulic clutch in the 87-88 Turbo Coupes.  That was an odd arrangement were the clutch master cylinder sat at a downward angle under the dash, not in the engine compartment.  I pondered that for a few minutes but it seemed a ridiculous task to install in the tighter confines of the Pinto - and thus I would always advise against it. The concept of finding space for a master clutch cylinder under the hood seemed unlikely, at least on an early car.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but is there more firewall side space in a 74 and up cars?  Someone a while back posted a master clutch cylinder under the hood of a Pinto and basically proved me wrong.  That all said, when I adapted my '88 TC T-5 into my 73 Pinto I used an '85 TC bell crank/cable setup and all went well.  The bell crank is interesting because if you relocate the cable attachment points you can alter the pedal feel and engagement speed. I left mine stock and will say this, if you want to teach someone to drive a manual trans it is the arrangement to use. The clutch engagement is very linear, over a considerable distance of travel.  Ideal for quick shifting - maybe not.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2016, 06:15:22 AM »
I've seen pictures of that (Mustang type) set up for a clutch.

All I've ever done was use the OEM cable & a new clutch fork (part numbers in shop).
I cut the small section out of the Pinto arm & weld into the new arm - for the smaller ball on the clutch cable.
Never had a problem.

Clutch is a Center Force - easy on the peddle / cable & holds very well.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: t5 questions!
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2016, 08:59:04 PM »
Even in the case of my Tiger I have a 5 bolt 289. It has the vertically oriented bolt pattern (trans to bellhousing). So, I either pay $ bucks $ for a dual pattern scatter shield, or get myself a 6 bolt block (like a 302 / roller).

If you had the engine out for a 6-bolt block swap, might as well do a 331 or 347 so you have the torque to pull that 2.32 first gear.  ;)

My T5 has the steepest first gear of all of them; 4.06. It was originally intended to help a small engine get a large and very heavy Thunderbird moving. In a sub-2600lb Pinto, taking off with the 2.35 2nd with 3.55 gears is easy.

Was reading a topic not long ago of a guy building T-5s to withstand up to 600 HP.
Not sure bout that.....seems the case would be the weak point ?

Astro builds insanely-rated aftermarket T5s, but I can't figure out how the cases hold together either. They seem to have a pretty decent reputation considering most of their products are treated rather harshly. G-Force is another attached to high-zoot T5s.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.