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Author Topic: Starter different for EFI vs Carb?  (Read 2006 times)

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Offline russosborne

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Starter different for EFI vs Carb?
« on: July 02, 2014, 11:41:01 PM »
HUH? ???
On Summit Racing's site, they list two starters for the 2.3. Both say they are for EFI only and not for Carb engines. They are both Powermaster, btw.
This makes no sense to me at all. What am I missing here?
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

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Offline amc49

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Re: Starter different for EFI vs Carb?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2014, 01:02:28 AM »
Probably the basic starter change Ford made in the late '80s or so. All earlier starters are magnetized by the power that pulls starter up, under the side cover bump is a moveable pole that swings in a switch as that pole magnetizes and pulls in. The starter is direct drive with one shaft that goes completely  through to also drive the flywheel. It uses a separate solenoid mounted up on the fender or firewall somewhere.

Later ones are permanent magnet that need no power to magnet and have a separate solenoid mounted on the side, you don't need the fender one any more. They are also gear reduction types with a planetary, not direct drive, the main drive is split into two shafts. The PMGR type (Permanent Magnet Gear Reduction), they are smaller, lighter and pack a lot of torque.

Thinking they interchange except for the solenoid issue, cables and wiring have to be run different for it. I have two Tempos, one later than the other, they both have one of each those type starters. My Pinto has the earlier direct drive one.

You can tell the difference looking at the part. Early one has a BUMP on the side, the later PMGR has a CYLINDER (the solenoid). The cylinder attaches to the front casting. Similar to a Chevy starter.

Offline russosborne

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Re: Starter different for EFI vs Carb?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2014, 01:13:52 AM »
Ok, so it is just that they aren't a direct replacement. That makes sense.
I was trying to figure out what difference it made between EFI and carb. None, except that is the dividing point between the two types.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Offline amc49

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Re: Starter different for EFI vs Carb?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2014, 10:16:14 AM »
'...except that is the dividing point between the two types.'

Not necessarily but close. My Tempos are EFI both but one has one type and the other doesn't. My thinking is the gear reduction later one spins up from zero speed a bit faster, that allows the later used EFI crank and cam position sensor inputs to be read a bit more reliably and faster to allow timing setup in the first second engine is moving.

Having a remote solenoid away from bolted onto starter will determine it.

Offline pintoguy76

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Re: Starter different for EFI vs Carb?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 06:43:25 PM »
I have a 91 mustang starter sitting around that came with the DIS 2.3 I bought for my car. Its smaller and a lot lighter but doesn't have a solenoid mounted on it. Would it work in place of my pinto starter? I am betting it would be quieter and take less amps to turn it...
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed
 
1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E