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Offline cobra

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starter change
« on: June 20, 2018, 01:21:42 PM »
I have a 74 2.3l engine and someone told me I can install a 94-95 ranger starter in it. Makes it easier to start. Is that true?

Offline pinto_one

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Re: starter change
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2018, 08:44:14 AM »
If the engine is hard to start it would be a no ,  the newer starter does spin a tad bit faster , used one on my 76 , good thing is it also uses less amps to turn the engine over . I also use the ford 4.0 ranger starter on my V-6 pinto , spins faster than the old stock starter .
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline cobra

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Re: starter change
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2018, 09:15:47 AM »
The less amp starter is from what vehicle that would fit my 74?

Offline Wittsend

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Re: starter change
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2018, 10:41:49 AM »
If the starter you have now is functioning properly the car likely has other issues that makes starting difficult.  They can be:

1. Corroded battery connections.
2. A weak battery.
3. Empty float bowl from sitting too long.
4. Weak fuel pump (somewhat associated with point #3).
5. Weak ignition system.
6. Ignition timing advanced too far.
7. Vacuum leaks.

If any of those aspects are present a faster spinning starter will not help with the slight exception of point #3, a dry float bowl. And even there the difference would be very marginal. A lot of people elect to use an electric fuel pump to "prime" the carburetor float bowl in cases where the car sits a long time and the bowl drys out of fuel. This prevents a lot of long cranking that is neither good for the battery or the starter.

So, know what the specific problem is. An original starter in good condition should start the car in a reasonable, short period of time.  If you knowingly have a bad starter then one of the newer (Ranger) starters is a good idea over a stock replacement.

Offline cobra

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Re: starter change
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2018, 09:35:04 AM »
Thank you for your input. It's a kit car and it does set for a while between start ups. I will look at a weak ignition system because I can rule out all the other items. I am using a GM steering column. This may sound like a silly question but is it the volts or the amps that I should be looking at, at the starter? How do I check that? My battery is new and charged, timing is set, no vacuum leaks, good fuel pressure. I have less problems if I start if every few days.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: starter change
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2018, 10:38:24 AM »
Sounds like you have already rules out a fair number of the possible problems. Not sure of the gas they sell in your location but between the % of alcohol and other blend factors (like we have here in California) the float bowls can dry out rather fast.  Being that 99% of the cars on the road today are fuel injected and in a "closed" vent system the evaporative properties of fuel can be much higher.

  This doesn't bode well for carburetor cars as it causes the float bowl to dry out quickly. Then you are reliant upon the car cranking, the fuel pump pumping to refill the bowl and the car starting.  I dealt with this all the time with other older cars I have.  I installed an electric fuel pump near the gas tank to pump fuel to the carburetor BEFORE I attempt to start.  It saves a LOT of wear and Tear on the battery and starter.

It is a bit messy, but if you let the car sit a while (for the fuel to evaporate), then using a funnel and hose fill the carburetor before attempting to start it - and it starts promptly you have your answer, evaporating fuel. An electric fuel pump would seem to solve the problem. There are a few things to know about it though:

1. It needs to be mounted low otherwise it can draw air.  The pump is better at pushing than pulling fuel. Also, depending on the original pump type I at times need to briefly crank the car to put the pump in a position that fuel can past through when priming with an electrical pump.

2. There is a safety issue. Should the car get in a wreck, or roll over you don't want fuel still pumping.  Some people use an oil pressure activated switch  so if the engine stalls the pump stops. How they get around the initial starting without oil pressure is a mystery to me.  Others use a common Ford shut off switch that is found in the trunk of most Fords. At the very least one should toggle switch on the dash but you are at the mercy of being conscience and able to reach it if needed. So, do all and any at your own risk.

Lastly and not fuel related, most ignition systems take a full 12 volt tap right off the starter when starting, then for the running period go through a resistor to reduce the draw.  If for some reason this kit car is not wired properly that might be the problem.  This is especially true with points based ignition systems.  I have a '88 Turbo Coupe engine in my Pinto and the  EFI and computer controlled ignition are very different. Thus I would not be the best person to advise if you have the factory based electronic ignition as I am unfamiliar with it.

I've found that pictures truely are worth a thousand words. If you could post images of your engine/engine bay it might be helpful in getting assistance.

Offline rob289c

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Re: starter change
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2018, 07:58:59 PM »
Last weekend I installed an electric fuel pump and oil pressure safety switch on my EXP, the Pinto's cousin.  I was having bad vapor lock issues.  The car would drive fine, although it would stumble under load, then if I stopped and went in a store or got gas, the car would start but only drive a few hundred feet before stalling out after burning the fuel in the float bowl.  I won't get into all the details but installing the electric pump I have no trouble at all.  It fires and runs every time with no stumbling under load.  If interested I can detail the troubleshootin g, installation, and oil pressure safety switch. 
rob289c

Offline cobra

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Re: starter change
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2018, 08:11:36 AM »
I want to thank all who responded to my questions. I believe it's the dry bowl problem and will check that out. the simple test is  filling the bowl which I shall try after vacation. I will get back to all. If I decide to install an electric fuel pump, any suggestion as to brand name?

Offline Wittsend

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Re: starter change
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2018, 09:49:13 AM »
On one of my cars I use a Facet fuel pump that has the appearance of an electronics transformer with fuel in/out connections on either side. They are generally quiet. And, at least from my experience when not powered they seem to have a "pass through" aspect. So, I can prime the carburetor with it, but turn it off and run on the mechanical pump once the car starts.  This is a link to a vendor but you may find it cheaper elsewhere. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=FACET

I have a few rotory vane type pumps and they can get really noisy. The Holley "Blue" pump in my Valiant is horribly loud. Such is the price of "free." I don't recommend them.

Offline rob289c

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Re: starter change
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2018, 08:28:29 PM »
I used an Airtex E8012S pump and OS75 Oil Pressure Safety Switch.  Bought from Rock Auto, shipped to my door for $48.43.  Quiet operation and easy installation.  Solved my vapor lock and dry bowl issues. 
rob289c

Offline russosborne

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Re: starter change
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 03:01:00 AM »
On one of my cars I use a Facet fuel pump that has the appearance of an electronics transformer with fuel in/out connections on either side.

Which one of those are you running?
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

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Offline Wittsend

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Re: starter change
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2018, 04:50:45 PM »
I don't recall which Facet pump it is. I actually got it free at a car show. The ground wire was barely coming out of the sealed housing.  But, solder and heat shrink got a wire safely attached.  My recollection was that it was the 4 PSI model and I use it on my 350 SBC powered Studebaker.  They make a multitude of pumps so it is best to check their rated capacities and fit the right pump to your application.


I just found an image and it is a Facet "type" fuel pump sold through Bap Geon. So, not even a real Facet. But, hey it works and it was FREE!

Offline LongTimeFordMan

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Re: starter change
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2018, 12:10:25 PM »
When you refer to hard starting, does the engine not spin or spin slowly and erratically with the starter or does the engine spin fast but not start? If the engine spins slowly it could be afaulty starter or an electrical problem like a ground to the starter or ign advanced too much.

If the starter turns the engine but the engine doesnt start, the problem is most probably related to fuel supply or ignition.

Facet pumps work well but there are 2 models, one lo pressure about 4 psi the other high pressure about 8 psi. The weber carb needs 3-4 psi. The factory pump delivers about 4 psi.
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