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Offline dianne

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Rust Removal
« on: March 01, 2014, 12:39:18 PM »
There has got to be a way to remove rust. I'm stripping down two cars side by side now LOL. The question I have, as you can see in the pics, that I have a ton of surface rust on some parts (this is one of the quarters). The paint comes off easy actually but the rust is not. On the Mustang it's coming off just grinding it, but the Maverick is killing me here. The Mustang, as you can see, comes up and I can grind it down. The Pinto was the same way.

I've tried grinding it and then using one of those round rough 3m things on a drill, but it's just not doing the job good enough. I suppose I could just sit there and grind the crap out of it more. There was a thing that has metal things sticking out that beat the metal, would that work?

Is there anything out there that will REALLY remove this crap?






Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2014, 01:26:56 PM »
I haven't tried it yet but I hear real good things about it??..

http://www.evapo-rust.com/
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 03:07:17 PM »
I haven't tried it yet but I hear real good things about it??..

http://www.evapo-rust.com/

I just ordered some, let's see if it works :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 05:53:57 PM »
I just ordered some, let's see if it works :)
Cool, hope it works because I'm about to get some too got rust on my machines that I need to get rid of.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 05:58:08 PM »
Three parts water and one part CHEAP vinegar will do the trick. It will kill rust and then turn black which shows the rust is gone. Of course this only works on surface rust, not deep down 1/4" thick rust. Try it, what does a little vinegar cost.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 06:13:03 PM »
Yeah, I use water and vinegar quite a bit on surface rust works good, but if there's any build up at all it won't work at least it didn't for me..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2014, 06:51:56 PM »
Well, I ordered that stuff already, I hope it does the trick!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2014, 07:19:46 PM »
Swimming pool acid works too, if you can stand the smell.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 08:06:01 PM »
Swimming pool acid works too, if you can stand the smell.

Hmmmm I did not know that. I know some old guys used to put pickle juice on their cars when I was younger.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2014, 08:18:20 PM »
CocaCola takes surface rust off too.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2014, 09:02:03 PM »
These are deep pockets. I'm gonna try that stuff you posted. I'll let you know how it works :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2014, 09:15:59 PM »
OK, I had a big bottle of that Evapo-rust in my garage. The rust went from brown to black. That means that the rust is now stopped and the black is safe? It won't come back as rust again?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline amc49

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2014, 10:11:18 PM »
I'm telling you people you can forget all that and please don't kill me for it.

The key there is WATER, any water in the product instantly sets up for surface rust that appears in less than five minutes there. The WATER does it. I have used pool acid (muriatic or hydrochloric) but part needs to stay in long enough to remove the bad rust, that can often be long enough to damage close lying areas that were not rusted. The acid does not care, it eats both metal and rust at same time even though it goes after the rust a bit more.

Anything you can buy that mixes with water or 'biodegrades' is garbage unless an acid and the acid will depend on the strength used. You rinse the acid with water and an instant protection problem there, I used to use a Felpro product that sprayed on to form a thick waxy oil coat that would protect dead clean bare steel for up to 3 years, of course you had to remove it later and prep well after doing so.

Use vinegar (acetic acid) straight, it is already so low in strength it will not hurt at all, cutting it makes it useless, it already is before that. BTDT. You can drink  it, do that with pool acid and you'll be dead in 3-4 minutes. Both acids can kill, the trick is in the concentration.

Pool acid at the strength supplied in bottles (30%?) is extremely dangerous stuff, I ruined an engine block once when someone suggested I fill water passages to remove rust. 3 hrs. later the acid ran out of side of block where it had cut a hole through water jacket. A 3/8"-24 bolt thrown in it for 30 minutes will no longer have threads on it. Now I use that stuff measured in 1-5 minutes, no more. DO NOT-I implore you-get it on your hands!!!!!!! By the time the pain starts (couple minutes) the damage is done. When I use it I have the water hose running within inches to dilute splatter that hits me.

I just dunked two cad plated pieces of steel in acid to remove the plating so I could braze it properly, they were both red rusty in 5 minutes airdry time and after blowing them off with high pressure air, which removes the water to slow that down. I have to re-prep them just before brazing but the cad is gone and why I did it.

Anything you can handle to put on side of car will not work very long before evaporation and the problem. The parts need to immerse in liquid, stay there, and just try that on a car. And in copious enough amounts to do some good, spreading a gel on there is not enough, it neutralizes and still part rusted. You'd have to use $50 worth to get anywhere. I bought a bunch once to wet dunk a bike head and remove paint from it, a mistake, the water soluable component in it then rusted all my fine parts like valve spring shims and anything else that fell to bottom of bucket. $30 worth of the 'best' paint removal stuff that could be bought. I was very upset, some of the parts were irreplaceable. It only sat overnight, maybe 12 hours and pulled water out of the air. Alcohols are what are commonly added to solvents to make them mix readily with water; I refer y'all back to my recent postings on ethanol. And how they've butchered paint removal chemicals to be dead worthless now.

I sold lots of this stuff at the store and have used a lot of it too, there is nothing over-the-counter available that does a GOOD job there. The liability issues have destroyed any usefulness of product, not that they were ever that great to begin with. I never found one person who was satisfied with the performance of those products, not one. They work on very thin rust, past that you are p-ssing in the wind. The lie is that you think you are getting somewhere but wait till you get to the end result. The 'turning black' literally means nothing, they ALL do that but the product will be on in such small amounts (not immersed, remember?) that the black simply means you have saturated the acid to neutralize it with still plenty of rust left. You will get sick of doing it twenty times and still getting black there, it never stops since at some point if true acid the black is coming from the base steel being dissolved and big mistake there.

I have not done a car in a long time but doing panels we had access to sandblasting or glass beading, which cleans it in like instant, the rust is not as hard as the steel and immediately comes up. Must use proper grit of product to produce the desired result. Dangerous (get some in eyes and it's a trip to emergency room, BTDT 3 times now for it) and messy though, but what the car restoring guys do. Kiss all that hand work goodbye....... ...the glass or sand gets in the microcracks that no sandpaper or grinder or stripping tool on the planet can. Look dead close at a blasted part in person and it becomes instantly evident. Even if you get all the rust off by handwork, you will always have the small pinhole rust spots, it continues to rust from those again. Thank God I do more bike restore than car, the parts are smaller and easy to make tanks to hold entire part to de-rust it. And I've spent a thousand dollars glass beading parts to do nothing else to them but wipe with alcohol and shoot paint on them.

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade but a dose of reality can save a bundle........ ......

Sorry dianne, I really don't hate you........... .............. .......

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2014, 10:51:07 PM »
I know you don't AMC and I really do appreciate the advise. Heck, you loved my (or any) AMC Eagle wagon! On the Mustang for example, there were big chunks of lacquer that were gone and cracked off (has two coats 4 coats of paint with 2 primer (second on REAL heavy)) and I was able to grind that all that off using 36 grit Rhino disks. But that Maverick was in potato field for a lot of years when I got it and everything was rusty. But I got all of it under the car, engine compartment and even the trunk (I think I posted a pick of the engine and trunk). The Pinto had paint that had these little and very tiny cracks, and that was HUGE amounts of rust - got all of that - wanted to paint on the paint since it was the original first coat but the car is like 70 percent primer now with the 70 percent down to metal to get that micro rusting, for lack of a better term. You seem as mad as I do when these idiots start talking gun bans or infringing on any of my rights the same as you are with you mad at the ridiculous EPA laws. You don't see chrome shops like you used to, not one in Idaho I don't think any longer and everything here is sent to Salt Lake in Utah if you bring it to a shop and it's much cheaper to just send it yourself.

With that said and us all being friends ahahahaha What the heck do I do when I can't get way way into those little tiny rust holes. I'm pretty meticulous on these cars, all of them, and even 20 grit disks isn't getting down far enough. Should I get one of those hand held grinders I see around here? I might end up cutting through the panels. I'm old, so I want around 20 to 30 years on some of these cars and don't want to do a second restoration if I keep them. I know I don't want to lose one of these right now. What's the solution to this problem? How the heck do I get all the rust? Do these areas need to be cut out because grinding down to get the deep pockets will make it thin in those areas. I could see that being done over time. My Maverick is really a longer term project than the Mustang (I want to run it this year).

So if you have an answer, I'm all ears!






Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline amc49

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2014, 11:36:02 PM »
Can anyone around you sand blast like cars for resto? The obvious problem being getting it there. Or maybe somebody has a portable one on a truck.

The logic of things, using any disc product on the market once you get down to the thin stuff you are removing great amounts of parent metal to get out small amounts of rust. Any tool you get to chisel it off same way. A function of having to get down deep in material that rusted could be .030" or .40" deep in only 060" thick material. To get that low rust you leave the panel .020" thick which is unacceptable.

With lots of work you'll get 95% of the rust out, it is the 5% that starts it again.

I'm sure we are all very impressed with the hard charging you have done to get this far yourself. Where I kind of gave up on cars. I let them run downhill but the only thing that drives me crazy is one that will not start and run perfect. Here in Fort Worth the wife and my view pretty much dashed of any hopes of keeping a really nice looking car. The last 3 'new' (actually almost new program cars) we got were all crashed into within 6 months of getting them. Past 9 o'clock half the people on road here are drunk. I had insurance fix one but not the others, rather taking the cash for them instead since I paid cash for them at purchase time. The repair job on the one was so abysmal I did the other two myself but only making them good solid and dependable with not much view for aesthetics. They're not perfect body wise but I made thousands on each one, enough to repay 30% of car price and they run perfectly. So, a pretty car vs. more money the choice there.

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2014, 11:43:22 PM »
I can drive the Maverick. I don't need a lot of areas done, only a few. Remember I ground down the trunk also on the rear quarter thereby removing more metal. Impressed? Well, don't expect anyone to be impressed. I just want these 4 cars as the ones I drive.

Your answer isn't really that helpful since you said that using glass or something else will leave micro materials causing more issues. I guess I'll figure it out. But these products they do sell today seem to be working if the black I see is actually the rust stopped. It will be under primer and paint, and if I decide on two stage paint under 3 layers.

Thanks I guess.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline amc49

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2014, 11:44:17 PM »
Maybe?

 I know I would probably be modding the unit somewhat based on performance. It of course requires shop air compressor and not just a small one. You CANNOT protect your eyes enough with one of these, the media will go every where. Once in your hair it gets in your eyes. I airhose my hair after doing it, it makes me look like a crazy Frankenstein. There may be others online with a small rubber funnel that saves a lot of it by trapping it right there. Point of funnel is entrance and big open end seals against car sheet metal as much as possible.

I did this stuff once using a big plastic tarp as a tent/floor/side cover to try to trap as much media as possible for re-use.

Offline amc49

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2014, 11:57:11 PM »
NOTHING can STOP rust except getting it all off then covering it to prevent entry of water. A physical law.

'using glass or something else will leave micro materials'

You misunderstood and my bad. The glass leaves like a velveety surface that has absolutely awesome tooth for paint. Primer easily fills it smoothly. What I said was that the glass gets into the micro-cracks and pores that the last of the rust particles hide in to be able to start the process all over. It gets the rust out of them, not stays in itself. That is rare, I clean spark plugs after glass beading them sometimes one or two particles get stuck up inside, a pin or somesuch easily pulls them out. I've saved hundreds of dollars there alone.

Find someone who does the work and then look at results. Bigger particles make bigger dents to like lightly ding the surface, you control that by changing the media. Same Idea used on shotpeening like connecting rods for surface hardening, there you use different size hardened steel balls. The 'Almen arc height' a measurement of the impact crater a certain size ball leaves after impact. You can blast things at metal at high speed to produce some pretty incredible effects.

Glass beading is finer than sand blasting FYI. They even blast like walnut shells on things that cannot be damaged.

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2014, 12:03:12 AM »
Yeah, I use walnut shells for cleaning my casings when I reload. But I'll figure it out, I may just grind it and see how thin it is and decide if I want to sand or glass blast sections. I'm doing this myself because blasting costs a LOT of money, around 1,000 a car from calling around.

Thanks for the advise though AMC...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2014, 09:25:20 AM »
Actually I just bought a small portable blaster on ebay.

They are inexpensive and I think my compressor will work fine with it.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline pintoguy76

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2014, 09:43:07 PM »
I think I am going to have to blast my car AND replace the  inner and outter quarter panels and passengers floorboard. Even then I don't know if I can keep the rust from coming back or not. :-(
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed
 
1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2014, 07:04:40 AM »
Grinding blasting and cutting and replacing should do it :D
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline sleepypinto

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2014, 09:44:07 PM »
On some light rust pits you might try the purple 3m clean strip discs, they work nice in small places. Blasting is the best way to remove rust. Keep the sandblaster away from your glass it will immediately etch it, and seal up the engine very well. Try not to use silica sand, black beauty is better on your health, that being said stay well ventilated. While on the subject baking soda can be used on very delicate items, I use it on carburetors, because the baking soda dissolves in warm water. You can make a soda blaster with a blowgun and plastic tubing, lots on YouTube on that. Restoration work is a very dirty and daunting task, I do bodywork for a living, lol rust is the enemy!
1979 ford pinto

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2014, 09:52:51 PM »
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline nnn0wqk

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2014, 11:44:55 PM »
Soda blasting works good for paint removal and will not hurt your chrome handles or glass but it does nothing to the rust. I have a commercial pot and have done a fair amount of paint removal but the rust will always be there. The nice thing about the soda, it protects the metal from rusting until you neutralize it from the soda. Sand blasting you need to prep it right afterwards or it will start rusting again before your eyes just from the moisture in the air. And once you neutralize the metal from the soda you better be ready to prep it as it is instant rust again too. I use a product called hold tight 102 to clean up after the soda and it really helps to hold the rust off for up to 48 hours. I have heard of people dipping their body tubs to have them clean but that also =$$$. I used to use phosphoric acid as that is safe on the metal and deadly on rust but can not find a source for it any longer. Thanks EPA! It is the active part of navel jelly and some of the other rust removers. PPG I think still sells it as a metal prep before painting. The thing I always liked about dipping was you knew every crack was gotten into. But it takes a very large vat to do a body shell. All I ever did was doors, hoods, etc. Good luck in what ever direction you go.

Offline dianne

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2014, 07:20:50 AM »
Well, we'll see how good I do I guess. These are small spots so I'm hoping I get 'em ;)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
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FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2014, 09:40:47 AM »
When your done stripping the panel spray a light coat of WD-40 it will stop the surface rust & doesn't cause a problem when it's time to paint.

On rusted surfaces get some Ospho from your local hardware store brush of a light coat it will never rust again & it's doesn't cause a paint issue.

http://www.ospho.com/

Mike
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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2014, 09:42:58 AM »
Would putting a coat of lacquer primer be good enough? Or do I also need to treat it? I've already primed a lot of areas I removed rust from on my Mustang, Pinto and Maverick. Should I re-strip those areas?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2014, 10:29:57 AM »
Would putting a coat of lacquer primer be good enough? Or do I also need to treat it? I've already primed a lot of areas I removed rust from on my Mustang, Pinto and Maverick. Should I re-strip those areas?


Did you use any metal Prep before you primered? Is the primer Epoxy?
73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

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Re: Rust Removal
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2014, 04:54:49 PM »
No, just regular lacquer primer.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied