Author Topic: Radiator Question! (Read 31220 times)

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #30 on:** June 18, 2013, 02:22:08 PM »

That pic is deceiving. That fan is an inch from the radiator. I put thin cardboard against it while I tightened the fan so I wouldn't crush the fins or shred my knuckles.

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #31 on:** June 18, 2013, 04:35:20 PM »

Wow, that was easy took less than 20 minutes, I'm gonna pay for that down the road, lol, bolted right up cooler lines slid right on, just had to trim the radiator hose a bit but that's it, thought the fan spacer was to long but it's just right fan is about an inch from the radiator, I did put the fan on before the radiator though, when the T-stat housing and T-stat gets here I can put the top hose on and that project will be done!..

Now about the heater, I notice your top hose goes to the pump and the bottom goes to the carb then intake, so how does that work looks like a dead end for the water at the intake?, is there a passage in the intake to the head so it circulates?.. Mine was all jacked up it had a piece of tubing with hose going from the pump to the intake and the two stubs sticking out the firewall, looks like the heater core has to come out to replace the hoses, that should be fun...

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 18, 2013, 06:22:14 PM »

LOL, told you it was easy

Yeah, the heater box has to come out to swap hoses. It's a pain but easy compared to an AC box. You may want to put a new core in while you're at it (I found mine on ebay for 38 bucks) & whatever you do put good hose in the box. I got Goodyear brand at a semi shop because it will last. You only need a few feet. Get quality clamps while you're there too. Pulling the box to replace a generic Chinese clamp would stink.

The weird hose routing is to get heat in winter. It bypasses the thermostat so you don't have to wait for the whole engine to get to temp. There's a port on the intake & water goes from there through the choke then heater.

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #33 on:** June 18, 2013, 09:51:06 PM »

I had a vehicle once before a long time ago that was like that, had to pull the heater box to get to the hoses, someone had to be pissed at the world to come up with that, LOL, that's gonna be fun because it has an AC unit under the dash but it's an add on unit sticks up where the glove box is can't even see how it mounts. Yeah, nothing but the best goes on and a new core, I only plan on doing this once, lol, I'll bet the one in there is no good that's why the hoses were cut and bypassed..

So, I take it water flows through the intake to that water manifold on the intake then through the choke and on to the heater then to the water pump in a circle right?, I also have a wire going to the choke so it's electrical, so what is the reason for water passing through the choke then??, sorry about all the questions but I'm totally new to these things..

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #34 on:** June 18, 2013, 10:21:25 PM »

If it's bypassed it probably leaks. Once you get the AC unit out of the way it's fairly easy to remove. I took my passenger seat out which gave me a lot of room.

I'm not sure which direction the flow runs. It may go the other direction but the hot water tells the carb the engines warm enough to lean out. The electric plug is for something else I think, usually a solenoid to stop dieseling. My water choke works but mine does run on when hot so I figure that solenoid is bad on mine if that's what it's for. I'm keeping my eyes open for the correct NOS carb to straighten it out.

If I'm wrong on the 12 volt connection maybe someone can elaborate. It seems redundant to have an electric & water choke simultaneously .

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #35 on:** June 18, 2013, 10:45:26 PM »

That's what I figure so I'm just gonna put a new core in. I was looking at the manual and it does look fairly easy to take out, wish I knew what kind of AC unit it is because it's nothing like what the manual shows, gotta be some aftermarket thing but I'll figure it out and it's getting trashed since it don't work anyways..

According to the manual it is a typical electric choke, I pulled the water passage off and all there is is a disc of some kind behind it and wouldn't come off, can't see how it would effect a lean/rich condition??, maybe someone else knows.. Those solenoids for dieseling are used instead of the idle screw, all they are is a plunger when power is turned on it pushes the throttle open, when power is turned off it retracts and the butterflies close up tight preventing dieseling, they been used forever and are a cool deal... Which carb you looking for?, I'm all for making things simpler and reliable..

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 19, 2013, 12:16:58 PM »

I still need to get the numbers off my carb but I found a '75 carb that's visually identical but at $169 bucks it has to wait a few weeks. I have too many other things ahead of it for the money including a '71 I need to look at. I have 2 NOS carbs for a '73 that are identical but the wagons an auto trans & the carbs are stick. One is for my '73 4-speed car & the other is for my wagon engine when it finds it's way into my sons '80 5-speed car.

I didn't realize that wire went to the choke. It must heat a coil behind the water choke. When it's cold the choke closes & richens up the carb. After it heats up & the choke opens it leans back out. That's what I was referring to. Usually they're either electric OR mechanical.

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #37 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:23:55 PM »

Sounds like your busy, lol, if there's a carb that's plain and simple that bolts on I'm all or it don't need all this other stuff..

Yep, according to the manual that wire goes to a disc type thing they call it "electric choke heater", then right in front of it right behind the water pasage is called "thermostatic housing", how this all works together I haven't a clue, but I'd just as soon have a plain ole everyday electric choke, like the one that's been working for 30-40 years or better, lol..

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 19, 2013, 04:05:06 PM »

The simplest swap would be a 350 Holley with electric choke. I have 2 new ones but the tranny kickdown is the reason I wont run one. I'm not in the mood to cobble together something that may not work correctly & could cause the trans to burn up. Ford & Chrysler wont tolerate an out of adjustment kickdown for long.

The stock carb also delivers a few extra mpg over the Holley & I'm trying to get the wagon up to 25 mpg rather than the 17 it's getting on the 37 year old carb. I put a kit in it but it runs exactly the same as before so I give up. This is the smoothest running 2.3 I've ever had. The timing is dead on, new cap, rotor, wires & plugs so that just leaves the carb as the cause of the crappy mpg.

jeremysdad · « **Reply #39 on:** June 19, 2013, 07:13:31 PM »

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on June 19, 2013, 04:05:06 PM

The simplest swap would be a 350 Holley with electric choke. I have 2 new ones but the tranny kickdown is the reason I wont run one. I'm not in the mood to cobble together something that may not work correctly & could cause the trans to burn up. Ford & Chrysler wont tolerate an out of adjustment kickdown for long.

The stock carb also delivers a few extra mpg over the Holley & I'm trying to get the wagon up to 25 mpg rather than the 17 it's getting on the 37 year old carb. I put a kit in it but it runs exactly the same as before so I give up. This is the smoothest running 2.3 I've ever had. The timing is dead on, new cap, rotor, wires & plugs so that just leaves the carb as the cause of the crappy mpg.

Could be the alcohol-gas we're forced to run. I know mine runs better on straight gas...costs a pretty penny, and it's hard to find, but totally worth it.

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #40 on:** June 19, 2013, 08:19:16 PM »

The bad gas probably contributes to it but I have a dead spot in the carb under load just past 1/4 throttle & until 3/4 throttle I get no acceleration. The quickie rebuild didn't help it at all.

I've seen posts with similar symptoms & in the cases where an NOS or Autozone rebuild was installed the drivability & mileage went up drastically. Since this engine only has 60K original miles & the oil barely gets dirty between oil changes I think it's worth splurging on a carb at some point.

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #41 on:** June 19, 2013, 09:20:01 PM »

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on June 19, 2013, 04:05:06 PM

The simplest swap would be a 350 Holley with electric choke. I have 2 new ones but the tranny kickdown is the reason I wont run one. I'm not in the mood to cobble together something that may not work correctly & could cause the trans to burn up. Ford & Chrysler wont tolerate an out of adjustment kickdown for long.

The stock carb also delivers a few extra mpg over the Holley & I'm trying to get the wagon up to 25 mpg rather than the 17 it's getting on the 37 year old carb. I put a kit in it but it runs exactly the same as before so I give up. This is the smoothest running 2.3 I've ever had. The timing is dead on, new cap, rotor, wires & plugs so that just leaves the carb as the cause of the crappy mpg.

Yeah, the Holley is about as simple as simple can get to tune, but not good for mileage with the big primaries you'd be better off with a Q-Jet with the small primaries, kickdown is nothing to adjust and simple to hook up if the carb is sideways.

Must be something wrong with the carb if you're only getting 17mpg, mine was totally jacked up when I picked it up and got over 20mpg with it, first thing I did when I got it home was check the timing belt, somebody put a new one on and the cam was 10* retarted no wonder I got black smoke when I nailed the throttle. But I was thinking where I'm at I can get by without a choke not that big of a deal, if this carb(5200)can give good mileage(it is a new one) I may just eliminate the choke and just run a hose from the pump to the heater and back to the T-stat housing, it should circulate and give heat I would think..

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #42 on:** June 19, 2013, 10:00:39 PM »

Around town mileage is 14 with that car. Highway barely breaks 17 so yeah, that puppy isn't right. My timing belt was 3 teeth off when I got this car too. It ran ok but wouldn't go over 65 mph. Even with the bad carb this car starts easy cold & lights off instantly when warm. My only complaint is mileage but that's a biggie since I know it should do way better.

I don't think you would have any issue bypassing the water choke. See how it goes. You can always swap on a later 5200 with electric choke

Reeves1 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 20, 2013, 06:03:38 AM »

Took the AC unit out of my 72. If you want I'll have it cleaned & pressure tested ?
Problem with that, as already said, a NOS one can be had for cheap.
I picked up a NOS one with the seals for 60 bucks, for the standard heater I'm going to be using.

and yes.......the AC unit is a pain to take out !

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #44 on:** June 20, 2013, 08:03:04 AM »

Quote from: Reeves1 on June 20, 2013, 06:03:38 AM

Took the AC unit out of my 72. If you want I'll have it cleaned & pressure tested ?
Problem with that, as already said, a NOS one can be had for cheap.
I picked up a NOS one with the seals for 60 bucks, for the standard heater I'm going to be using.

and yes.......the AC unit is a pain to take out !

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to that, been kinda been leaving it for last, LOL...

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #45 on:** June 20, 2013, 08:14:04 AM »

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on June 19, 2013, 10:00:39 PM

Around town mileage is 14 with that car. Highway barely breaks 17 so yeah, that puppy isn't right. My timing belt was 3 teeth off when I got this car too. It ran ok but wouldn't go over 65 mph. Even with the bad carb this car starts easy cold & lights off instantly when warm. My only complaint is mileage but that's a biggie since I know it should do way better.

I don't think you would have any issue bypassing the water choke. See how it goes. You can always swap on a later 5200 with electric choke

I had mine up to 75 and seemed to run ok, of course retarding the cam gives more top end but 10* YIKES, it sure wasn't a ball of fire on the bottom end though, LOL, don't know if it's the quality of the belt but the closest I could get it is 4* advance, but that's ok it just gives more bottom end and if the belt stretches it'll just get closer to straight up..

Yeah, I can't see can't issues with bypassing it, but I just wonder if the intake needs heat to run good?, I know Chevy IL6's do but I'm gonna try it and see what happens... So the later 5200's don't have the water passage huh, think I will look into that, thanks for the heads up..

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #46 on:** June 20, 2013, 09:47:07 PM »

I think late '76 or early '77 the MII & Pintos started getting electric chokes.

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #47 on:** June 21, 2013, 07:14:18 AM »

Thanks I'll look into those...

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #48 on:** June 21, 2013, 09:08:21 PM »

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-1976-Ford-pinto-rebuilt-2BBL-HOLLEY-CARB-/350819910557?hash=item51ae7f039d&item=350819910557&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

I think this fits '77 but it's sans water choke

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #49 on:** June 22, 2013, 06:39:51 AM »

Thanks for the link, it says 75-76 should fit 74 no problem, looks identical to mine without the water passage though, I'll have to take it off again and check I may be able to just eliminate it on mine, or maybe just replace the choke assembly??.. Thanks again..

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #50 on:** June 22, 2013, 01:21:39 PM »

Well, here's mine looks identical, looks like the water manifold isn't part of the rebuild, gonna try it without water and see what happens..

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #51 on:** June 22, 2013, 09:23:26 PM »

Judging by the screw in fuel filter in your pic that's a late carb. The earlier ones had a hose barb to connect the fuel line instead of a filter. I think the screw in filter started in '75

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #52 on:** June 23, 2013, 08:34:43 AM »

You're right, checked the manual and it shows a press in barb..

Got it all back together yesterday and went to fire it up and no spark, some testing shows a bad coil also the water pump started leaking, weird how it all happens while just sitting there,lol. Think I'll look into losing the points at the same time too, haven't mess with points in ages, LOL...

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #53 on:** July 01, 2013, 10:46:53 PM »

Well, had some old wires and a coil laying around and it worked fired right up. New water pump, T-stat housing and T-stat and no leaks, ran it for an hour and never went over 180*, I think I'm good to go on this deal.. Now onto the next project, since the heater hoses were whacked off I figured it had to be because the heater core is bad, sure as heck looked inside and you can see a trace of dry liquid at the bottom of the heater box and I can see why it never got fixed, before you can get to the heater box this dealer add on A/C unit has to come out, oh what fun this ought to be a riot,LOL, we'll see what happens tomorrow...

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #54 on:** July 02, 2013, 01:30:21 AM »

I wonder if that's a standard heater box once the A/C unit is out of the way?

Reeves1 · « **Reply #55 on:** July 02, 2013, 04:20:14 AM »

Looks completely different than mine.

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #56 on:** July 02, 2013, 08:45:20 AM »

Looking at the manual it looks like it from what can be seen?, got a couple of errands to do this morning hope to get it out by this afternoon I'll take some pics. It is a totally independent system though, has it's own control panel separate from the factory heater controls, and there's nothing in the manual about it either so it ought to be fun trying to figure how it's mounted in there..

chrisf1219 · « **Reply #57 on:** July 02, 2013, 01:18:17 PM »

havent looked at mine but maybe you have a dealer installed ac?i have a dealer installed ac all contols are indepentant of reg heater controls. good luck chris

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #58 on:** July 02, 2013, 10:07:49 PM »

It is a dealer installed unit, what a pain getting it out I sure wouldn't want to be the installer,lol. It is a standard heater box with parts missing, they didn't use the left vent duct to register a hose from the AC went there, also the right vent is not there there's a plate covering the hole, the AC unit fits up to the register, also they added a register in the dash next to the heater controls so I now have hole there, but that's ok because it's a perfect place for oil and water gauges and I can eliminate the idiot lights. Now all I need to do is find the missing vent parts and glove box and I'll be all set, next step replace the heater core.

Now, does anybody know what this is for?, I looked at the wiring diagrams and it's not there, the box was attached to a metal bracket and was hanging with one screw in the middle and didn't look like it belonged there beside the AC unit??..

This is what the plug looks like and it's part of the factory harness.

Reeves1 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 03, 2013, 06:37:41 AM »

Warning buzzer ?

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Author Topic: Radiator Question! (Read 31220 times)