PINTO CAR CLUB of AMERICA
Welcome to FordPinto.com, The home of the PCCA => General Help- Ask the Experts... => Topic started by: redwinggirl on August 12, 2013, 03:36:19 PM
-
My 1978 Pinto quit starting. It has a new voltage regulator, starter solenoid and as of today a new starter. When I turn the key lights come on, radio works but no grinding at all. Ideas?
-
There could be several reasons. I would start by checking the ignition switch mounted on the lower part of the steering column.
-
If you have someone available, have them hold the ign. key in the 'start' position and check for 12V power at the 'S' terminal on the starter relay'
-
if it is an automatic set the brake and try to start it in neutral ...neutral safety switch ?
-
So do you have the rubber elbow the goes to the S terminal on the solenoid ? It should have two wires. If so the connector on the inside might be worn out. I usually cut the elbow off , soldier on a ring terminal to each wire and bolt them in place.
-
Thanks for the ideas! I'll get back to you.
-
I'm thinking neutral switch maybe out of adjustment, try moving the shifter while cranking and see what happens..
-
Based on these replies I studied the wiring diagrams and I believe it is the ignition switch. The brake light icon goes on when I try to start without reason and per the diagrams that is related to the ig switch. Will replace wiring from there to solenoid as well.
-
I had this same problem a couple of weeks ago and it was a bad ground at the starter solenoid.
-
the odds on it actually being the switch are slim to almost none. in park jumper from where the battery connects to the solenoid to the terminal that normally holds the red/ blue wire. use a well insulated screwdriver. does the car crank. crank yes grounds and solenoid are good. crank no change the solenoid. crank yes move the ingniotion switch to run and jumper again . will the engine run? back to testing. get a test light and connect it to the red/blue wire and then clip it to ground. does the bulb light when you put the key in the start position? light yes power is reaching the solenoid in crank. again possibly solenoid or a poor ground to it. . light no. check the neutral start switch for continuity in park and neutral if its fine start tracing the red/blue wire looking for a fault. after all that look at the box on the bottom of the column.
-
Good advise. She's a manny; won't ever drive an automatic. Unless it's free.
-
Have I mentioned how much I hate electronics? So not spark at the screw on the starter solenoid, holding the key in the start position produces clicking at the coil, but no start. Don't own a volt meter. Just a circuit tester. Advice?
-
I'm going with Jonah's suggestion but at the Battery- take off the negative cable from the battery, clean and reinstall. I had a pinto once that did this and I grabbed the negative battery terminal and pushed and turned so the car would start- it became a regular thing.. After I cleaned it- it was fine.
This is fun... let's see which one will fix this issue... All are great suggestions,
-
Even a $4 voltmeter you can find at harbor freight is a good thing to have. I got one just to keep in my car. Read the voltage right at the battery clamps without touching the posts while someone turns the key. If the voltage stays close to 12 the battery connectors arent the issue. Then check from the positive connector to a ground and do the same. If its still reading close to 12 a little more even, the ground cable is good. Then read from a ground to the other end of the cable from the positive of the battery and have someone turn the key again. If you get 12v then the positive cable is ok.
Then check from ground to the other side of the relay, and have someone turn the key. Close to 12v again thats all ok. Then from ground to the solenoid wire on the starter. Turn the key read the voltage, same for every test.
You could use the test light the same way. If the wires are long enough.
Is the clicking coming from the relay mounted on the firewall not far from the battery where the positive cable goes to? It sounds like a weal battery or bad connections if so. Follow the tests youll find the culprit. If you get a lot of voltage drop at the battery connectors when someone turns the ky, read right on the battery posts and have them turn the key. If the voltage drops at the posts too, t he battery is weak. If the voltage stays at 12 the connectors arent clean or arent tight.
-
I've gotten a few faulty solenoids from part stores before. Maybe try an exchange if everything else is a dead end. :) 9/10 though, my 'clicks' have usually been battery connection related, either at the battery or at the solenoid.
-
They can be because of the connectors not being clean or tight, and they can be from where the connector goes on the cable too. I had both of those over the years. Of course it can be bad connections at the other end too. Its like a chain or a big circle ( the word circuit comes from circle).
Just keep following it from one end to the other, with the test light or cheap voltmeter. A post hole cleaner is another good thing to grab for $2 or $3
-
In the following order: Battery connections clean/tight, connections at solenoid clean/tight, connections to ground clean/tight, connection from solenoid to starter clean/tight? If in doubt, disconnect everything in order, and hit it with some emery cloth or sandpaper, then reassemble and tighten properly. It's something simple, usually.
When was the last time this car started? It's a Ford, they're pretty straightforwar d (all I've owned since I got my first car in 93). lol
-
When was the last time this car started? It's a Ford, they're pretty straightforwar d (all I've owned since I got my first car in 93). lol
good question .. since you say it`s a stick you can have someone give you a shove with the switch on and pop the clutch in 2nd gear and see will it run ..then always park on a hill ..... HA !!!
-
good question .. since you say it`s a stick you can have someone give you a shove with the switch on and pop the clutch in 2nd gear and see will it run ..then alway spark on a hill ..... HA !!!
Like.
Yeah, that always works. Even with a dead battery! Too many autos have ruined my mechanical brain. lol
Many a morning I spent with a dead starter, a 64 Falcon, and 5 people pushing on a flat road. :D lol 'Hey, you want a ride to school? Cool. Told you this was a bad place to go---no hill.' Now, mush, puppies!!! lol
Def 2nd gear, though...1st will throw you through the windshield. Don't ask me how I learned that.
-
did you remember to put a nickel in it first?
p-put
i-in
n-nickel
t-to
o-operate
-
Battery terminal condition or battery bad the most likely issue, how old is battery? Some of the answers given here amaze me. Yank battery and charge it up and load test at the parts store, that'll tell the tale.
Clicking at the solenoid says not enough power to pull solenoid all the way in, or why it clicks.
-
Finally had some time to test these things out. It WILL start and run using a "remote start". I replaced thr ignition module thinking it was a link in the chain. Nothing. Batteries good, replaced the elbow on the solenoid. Traced the wiring back and there are no bad wires. I just don't get it. Help.
-
hold the key in the start position with your left hand, then move the shifter with your right hand. it might start, it might not. had this problem with a dodge I had.
-
Im not sure what you mean by a `remote start` did you use a jump starter or a remote switch?
Get a $4 voltmeter from harbor freight or wherever and we can walk you through tracing out the voltages to see exactly where it could be getting lost at.
-
I took that that she used a remote switch at the starter solenoid. If it started at that point pretty well rules out bad battery connections etc. I do not remember a Pinto using a clutch neutral switch so that would tend to point to the switch at the base of the steering coluum. I agree that a voltmeter would be a great investment at this point, should save a lot of parts replacements.
-
But if the relay clicks when she turns the key it doesnt seem like a remote switch would make any difference. I still think its the battery or the connections are dirty. A post hole cleaner and a $4 voltmeter will most likely be all she needs.
-
finally got a voltmeter! Battery is spanking clean, has new cables, too. According to the books, there is no NSS switch on the manual trans. There are 3 wires that come off the solenoid. 2 are red, 1 is white/ blue stripe. The wht and 1 red go through firewall into connectors and then on to ig. switch. The other red goes to the ig. module. None of these seem compromised.
-
I'm with tonij, battery not a known quantity there yet. I've fixed so many cars I can't count that owner swore up and down battery was good. Clicking at solenoid says the igntion start circuit is working. Just not enough battery to start car. Remote switch means nothing, bad battery will not crank five times then suddenly work once, battery still bad there.
The battery is bad to me until someone has passed a load test at proper CCA, a lesser CCA battery can be BRAND NEW and not crank the car. Simply checking static volts on a battery really is quite worthless.
-
Check all connections and make sure there's no corrosion anywhere.
-
I had a similar problem today at work. try tapping on the solenoid with a lighter or something of similar size.
-
connect your voltmeter leads directly at the battery posts and have someone turn the key. If the voltage drops the battery is weak if not the battery is ok. Then put the black wire on a ground and the red on each terminal at the relay, read those voltages when the key is turned. Use a clean spot on the engine or the body for a ground not the battery. Tell us what you get and we go from there.
-
Usually if you have to tap on something to work odds are it's a bad ground.
-
Good point about the battery. Since there's no corrosion anywhere. Ill have autozone chk it out.
-
Sure sounds to me like ignition switch related although interestingly my 73 wouldn't start the other day after getting gas and I think the problem was at the start relay. Tapped it and wiggled the + lead on it and everything was fine. No problems since. Started many times with no problems in the 3 months I've owned it. I am a little suspicious of the + connection because I was taking it off to use a remote starter switch to bump the motor when checking timing belt alignment.
I was also going to suggest troubleshootin g using a test light can sometimes be easier than a voltmeter.
Make sure you get one for 12 Volt circuits.
The bulb should be incandescent, (has a filament), which has the added advantage over a Voltmeter of verifying circuit contacts are conducting current. It is possible to measure voltage in a circuit but have no or too little current particularly where switch or relay contacts are involved although this is more common in low power circuits.
-
I hate electrical, lol..
-
Theres really no advantage of a test light over a dvom if you can use it at all correctly. I worked on cb radios tvs vcrs 150-watt per channel high end audio equipment, have some engineering studies and hobby experience fabricating pc boards designing and building analog and digital circuits.
A Pinto electrical system is a piece of cake for me. Get those three or four readings I mentioned and go from there. A circuit is a circle so we have to follow it around thats all no jumping ll over the place. Lets get this Pinto going already.
-
Theres really no advantage of a test light over a dvom if you can use it at all correctly. I worked on cb radios tvs vcrs 15-watt per channel high end audio equipment, have some engineering studies and hobby experience fabricating pc boards designing and building analog and digital circuits.
A Pinto electrical system is a piece of cake for me. Get those three or four readings I mentioned and go from there. A circuit is a circle so we have to follow it around thats all no jumping ll over the place. Lets get this Pinto going already.
Agreed. Jumper wires from 'I' on the solenoid to '+' on the coil, then one from the hot post to 'S' on the solenoid. It should start. If not, battery connections. If so, bad solenoid.
I didn't re-read this entire novel, is it actually cranking and not starting, or is it a no crank scenario? :) lol
-
Yes, way too much fish flopping around here, the trouble should've been found in five minutes....... ...........not like a PCM car with elevendyfortyt wo other things to check.
Once a solenoid has vaporized some of its' internal contact point, it can occasionally not work at one application then go back to working fine. Pull it apart and find the contacts all eroded and pitted to make semi-contact.
-
.....not like a PCM car with elevendyfortyt wo other things to check.
Sounds you've fought with a GM OBD 1.5, as well. lol
-
Yes, way too much fish flopping around here, the trouble should've been found in five minutes....... ...........
very well would be if any of us were on the scene but that cant happen in the interweb world ..the most simple of things can stump the unfamiliar ....(
-
the most simple of things can stump the unfamiliar ....(
Man, ain't that the truth..
-
Was this issue ever solved?
-
so, after all this I finally took it to a mechanic to figure it out. At least I'm not stupid cause he couldn't track the electronic gremlin down, either. Putting a push button start in it.
-
Geeeezzzzz.... ...it's a freakin' Pinto for crying out loud! If your "mechanic" (I use that term loosely) can't diag a simple issue like this, you need a new mechanic. It starts with a remote start switch hooked to the solenoid, correct? That eliminates everything except getting 12v to the S terminal from.....the ignition switch! Put your voltmeter on the S terminal (with the wire still attached) turn to start and see what the reading is. Pretty sure Tonij1960 already asked this so..... :)
-
, you need a new mechanic.
i was kinda thinking that as well .. it can only be a few things .. ignition switch ( at the bottom of the steering column ) .. or neutral safety switch .. if it starts with a toggle switch the solenoid must be good ..but if you can live with it go for it ...
-
Rocket science....... ............LO L.
-
I agree. Ignition switch or neutral start switch. However some ignition switches are rare and hard to find. I think the one on for my 74 is not listed at any parts store... can get them on ebay tho, but they arent very cheap.