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Offline D.R.Ball

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Pinto just quit running
« on: November 23, 2011, 09:54:19 PM »
As per the subject my 1976 Ford Pinto just quit running IE I was driving down the road and it suddenly died...The engine will turn over but it will not start...I'm going to pick it up tomorrow and start to trouble shoot..I going to start with the fuel system as the carb has some black film on the inside of the aircleaner etc....I will also do a spark check and fuel pump check but after that I do not have an idea as what cause it to die like this...

Offline Scott Hamilton

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2011, 10:23:24 PM »
Electronic Ignition module? I'm really familiar with the 71-72 models & points...Did the 76 have electronic ignition or was the distributor modded? Sound just like a Module failure.
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Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2011, 11:16:02 PM »
Thanks I'll add that to the troubleshootin g tomorrow. Yes the 1974? and above 2.3's have the E.I module....

Offline dga57

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2011, 12:01:14 AM »
I'm definitely no mechanic, but as Scott said, it sounds exactly like an electronic ignition module problem.  The early ones were famous for that.  I carry a spare in each of my '79 Lincolns... just in case.  If, in fact, that is the problem, it will usually restart after a half hour or so.  Good luck!
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Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2011, 10:56:18 AM »
I'm going to do the trouble shooting after dinner, and it looks like some of the stores have the tester in house.For the ignition module.The main one that I know of is Autozone and the may even have one in stock....

Offline Starliner

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2011, 11:37:41 AM »
Here is what I would do.
1.  Check for a broken timing belt.  Remove the distributor cap.   Crank the engine and see if the rotor is turning.  If not, the timing belt broke.   
2.  Check for spark.   Take the center coil wire out of the distributor cap and hold it 1/8 inch from a metal surface.  Crank the engine and look for a spark.     If good go to #3.   If not check the module as indicated.    Also make sure all your ignition parts are fresh.  Plugs, cap, rotor, wires. 
3.  Check for gas delivery.    Go buy some fogging oil in a spray can with the little spray tube.    Spray the fogging oil down the carburetor while cranking the engine.  Did it start?   If so, you have a fuel related problem.    If not it is probably something else.   
4.  If you checked 1, 2, 3, and found no issues, then the timing belt may have jumped a few teeth.   Check the alignment.  You may consider changing the timing belt as normal maintenance anyway.
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Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2011, 01:44:05 PM »
And the winner is problem number 1...Engine spins the rotor does not....I wish it was something else because it pushes back my turbo build,I still have some rear suspension parts to get and service the rearend etc.....

Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2011, 03:10:25 PM »
is it the belt or did it eat a dizzy gear?
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Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2011, 09:08:07 PM »
It's the timing belt, the dizzy will not spin and the cam pulling will not turn when the engine turns over.....The next question I have is it a good idea to pull the distributor to put the rotor on number 1 or should I just leave it in place and spin the rotor to number 1 before I put the belt on...

RSM

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2011, 10:09:54 PM »
The distributor won't need to be pulled to put a new belt on. Line up the cam and crank where they need to be. Remove the distributor cap, find #1 and spin the dist drive gear till it lines up. Install the new belt. After you release the tensioner double check the gears to make sure everything is still correct. After you have the engine running again check the timing with a light and adjust if needed.

Offline Starliner

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2011, 11:52:04 PM »
Hey DR,
The timing belt is not hard to do like it is on other cars.  The engine is NOT an interference engine, so you will have no damage. 
RSM has noted the key points to watch on the install. 
 
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Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2011, 09:16:17 AM »
So the question of the day is how do you get the crankshaft pulley off? There is no grove to engage the pulley puller on like the later model 2.3 E.F.I..

Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2011, 11:29:52 AM »
I got the pulley off with no trouble,however when I spin the distributor and the gear they spin but it's odd like I go to line it up and it moves back where it wants to be.....As for the belt well a 4" section of belt has no teeth.....The belt did not break however....

Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2011, 12:26:47 PM »
Okay now this is weird, I can not find the cam timing notch,bump etc to time the car. The cam pulley just has 2 dimples on it no raised area etc like a later model engine....

RSM

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2011, 08:05:19 PM »
I have a couple of pics out of my old Chiltons manual that shows the way to time the engine. There is a pointer that can be seen thru the rubber plug in the timing belt cover. This marker is lined up between the two dots. I can't post pics because they are too big...I hate these pic size limitations. I can email the pics to you unless someone else can post a pic.

RSM

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2011, 08:08:09 PM »
http://s989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RSM1961/      I figured out how to do it. Here is the link to my Photobucket. There are 3 pics of the timing marks. Ignore what the pic says about the 2000cc engine.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2011, 06:46:08 AM »
Hope you do not mind me posting them for you : someone else may want to see/keep them for future reference ?






RSM

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2011, 10:42:45 AM »
Hey not at all...someday I'll figure out how to do that LOL

Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2011, 12:57:33 PM »
After taking a good look at replacement parts online I was finally able to locate the timing mark.Just for something to look at try Napa Auto Parts and click on the image to zoom....The book views are kind of use less because there was no zoom image of the real timing mark...The mark is a small dimple on the edge of the sprocket and if it's on an old part you will miss it..The other dimples were balancing done one the inside of the cam sprocket(looks like a drill was used to remove a small amount of metal) and that was making it hard to match up....One more thing do not get the 2.0 confused with the 2.3 the cam markings are totally different..All in all thanks for the help...

Offline Original74

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2011, 05:53:40 PM »
I was going to suggest 2 things from my experience back in the day, my number 1 was going to be condenser. I don't recall when electronic ignition came in, but my 2nd idea was timing belt. I've had both fail numerous times. Good luck with the timing belt, you will be a proud man when that baby fires  up.

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Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2011, 06:55:30 PM »
To add to the parts change out, the cap is toast in side and out and I'm changing out the distributor as well because the vacuum advance did not work any way..It's cheaper to buy a rebuilt one than try to buy a vacuum advance and anything else....

Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2011, 08:40:29 PM »
 At least you should have it done before the freezing stuff gets here. And hopefully be set for a while :)

 I used to go to the same junk yard all the time to get things for my pinto and always in the  summer. They asked me one time, after going there for many years, if I was a teacher. I said no why and they said,because you only come here during the Summer,and I said who wants to work on their car in the Winter. Im not sure why they laughed :)

Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2011, 03:06:52 PM »
Okay new question. I had a hell of a time getting the belt on the sprockets so I had an idea. I locked the tensioner  and tightened the adjustment bolt.Then I put the belt on with out it moving. After I had the belt on I loosened the adjustment bolt and the tensioner took up the slack. Is this the correct way to put the belt on? Also does the belt have to be centered on the sprockets or will it center up on it's own?

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2011, 03:25:21 PM »
Locking the tensioner the way you did is the way to do it. I've been doing that years...makes it way easy to put on a belt. As far as centering a belt, you should have the belt cogged in on the pulleys (not sure if cogged is a word lol) before loosening the tensioner bolt. If you don't do this and you loosen the tensioner bolt, you stand a chance of the belt not "centering" where it needs to be and once it does it may or may not wind up where it needs to be for everything to be timed correctly. Did this make sense?...lol

Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2011, 11:01:34 PM »
Yes it does, I also double checked the Ford Book and I was right but I need this done right.....So now all I need to do is finish the job and enjoy my car....

Offline 78txpony

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2011, 10:16:24 PM »
Hope you got it running again. 
I had this happen to me before - the only time I had my car towed. 
Ironically it happened on 2-29-2000, so I blame the leap year & Y2k bug, rather than not changing the belt every 70k miles like I should have.... 
It was a cheap no-name belt so I would not recommend those.  Get a Gates. 
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Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2011, 02:39:17 AM »
 Lets hope its a happy Pinto again.

 My timing belt broke about 2 years ago. I pulled up to stop and it just quit running, I tried to restart it and wouldnt start. It just seemed weird to me the way it did it. I left it parked half a mile  from my home, and sat and thought about it, and went back to look at it and I could see right away it was the timing belt. There was a body shop just a couple of blocks away that said they could change it for $75, and we just pushed it the two blocks saved the tow :)

Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Pinto just quit running
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2011, 07:09:49 PM »
Finally it's fixed, I hate working on a car out doors.... The weather at times was really either rainy, too cold or lightening out side the last few days have been fine.The cap ,rotor, wire change and rebuilt distributor and of course timing belt have fixed the problem...Car has plenty of power and it does not diesel anymore....I still have little tuning to do but I was shocked at all of the parts that need to be replaced...Bot h battery cables, cap, rotor, spark plug wires, spark plugs and distributor etc.....I'm glad it's running but.....It's going to be Turbo Time in April or May...