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Offline populardairyproduct

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Performance please?
« on: April 09, 2014, 10:29:43 AM »
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum but I find myself staring at it often to answer my questions. Just finished restoring a 1980 Pinto wagon. Runs great, just wanting more horsepower. I have no idea where to start and just wanted a general opinion. Any suggestions?

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 11:39:34 AM »
Welcome aboard! There is no good answer to the power question. A header & good exhaust is only worth 5-8 HP, a well tuned carb will net a couple more & a cam swap is only going to yield power at RPM's you don't drive in.
 
The Turbo Coupe engine swap is popular because it's fairly simple, gives you EFI. doubles power & usually increases fuel mileage in most cases.
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Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 12:32:48 PM »
cam timing, skip, cam timing, skip, cam timing, skip,......sorry I know I sound like a broken record but the same question comes up over & over & over. So simple and cheap and yields a power increase that you can actually feel.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline poomwah

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2014, 12:43:43 PM »
I printed out my degree wheel :] Now I'm waiting on my adjustable cam gear :]

Offline amc49

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2014, 02:41:30 PM »
Think I'll pop in here for a second on cams.......... .............. you CAN improve lower down and useable power but the cam hard to find. Look for more lift but with short duration, that's hard to find for these. Find it though and you should be able to pick up power to at least 130-140 and with exhaust, intake mods to suit. You'll definitely like that engine better than the stocker even with a stock converter ATX. Long duration is the street useable horsepower killer on these. Hot Rod magazine once did an article on the 2.3 back in the '80s and using a short duration/bigger lift Reed stick they were able to make 150 hp. firm and the torque peak DROPPED  to make the engine even more useable.

Some say there is a stock Ford roller cam set up on later models that swapped to early models can bump lift up to like .450ish, if so that mod might well be a good ticket. I've never gone there.

I lightly ported a stock 2.3 head and good header and intake and the car was MUCH more fun to drive and ATX on it. The passing and merging on freeway power were much better on it. At 60 mph and drop the throttle on it the engine felt like it had a bit of power as compared to the stock dead-on-arrival engine at that speed.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2014, 03:50:10 PM »
I assumed he meant increasing HP with easy mods like headers & cams. 
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Offline populardairyproduct

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2014, 09:27:42 PM »
Thanks everybody, good info. Will put something together and let ya know the results.

Offline populardairyproduct

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 12:52:21 AM »
Was also thinking about a less restrictive air cleaner. Any ideas? Gonna try the cam and headers and see where I get. Don't quite have the willpower to swap the motor lol.

Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 12:46:30 PM »
I assumed he meant increasing HP with easy mods like headers & cams. 
My mistake. I'll be shutting up now.....howeve r I do agree with AMC49. Good luck finding a streetable cam.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 01:43:19 PM »
My mistake. I'll be shutting up now.....howeve r I do agree with AMC49. Good luck finding a streetable cam.

I'm not trying to be a $martass, I just have no clue how to degree a cam & like most of us just put it together, fire it up & hope for the best. That said, I bought a few adjustable upper gears because I do plan to learn.
 
I barely have a grip on the basics of fuel injection which is gonna make my turbo swaps interesting to say the least. I'm going to use a Detail Zone harness on the 1st one because it's supposed to be so simple even a dummy like myself should be able to get the car running. I'm sticking with a VAM because I have no idea how MAF works & I'm pretty sure a Megasquirt is simply beyond my abilities.
 
I've always understood cam lift & rocker ratios & had a grip on duration right up to the point where they started measuring it at .050 (I still have no clue) & since then advertised duration at .050 means nothing to me. I've done dozens of engine swaps, built a few engines, torn into near every part of a car except transmissions & differentials but a lot of what you guys post still goes over my head.
 
All I meant was if a guy like myself that has above average skills can't follow you guys then how are the new guys gonna do it?
 
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 02:47:46 PM »
Was also thinking about a less restrictive air cleaner. Any ideas? Gonna try the cam and headers and see where I get. Don't quite have the willpower to swap the motor lol.

I put a chrome K&N breather on mine. http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=56-1010

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 02:48:33 PM »
A little tip about degreeing cams, there's another important reason to degree a new cam besides tuning it's warranty, more than once I've bought a cam and it was way off, also I've had the index to the gear in the wrong place and without degreeing the cam you'll never know it's off until you fire it up and it never runs right, by degreeing the cam you'll find that out and you can return it for a replacement, BUT once you fire it up the cam is yours good or bad, that's why all cam MFG's tell you to degree the cam when you install it, and the instructions are readily available.  Just a little information for those who aren't familiar with the procedure.
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Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2014, 04:30:18 PM »
No problems, I was just thinking he wanted to put a super tune on a stock engine, not add performance parts. I did a post years ago about degreeing a cam the backyard way, not using a degree wheel or dial indicator. Most stock engines are retarded from the factory so it gets them in the ball park, and also shows how to do it without a degree wheel so it's free. With a performance cam you really should use the proper tools.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline Rob3865

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2014, 05:42:08 PM »
More power than what? What do you have in it now? 4 cyl? V6? Rubber band? what's your budget? Impossible to answer without that information.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2014, 06:51:02 PM »
80 Pinto's only came with a 2300 four banger.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Rob3865

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2014, 07:02:45 PM »
Thanks Dick. I am not up to speed on how they came. Pun intended.

In that case, I would throw the 4 cyl in the ditch. JMHO I know opinions vary. you can spend boocoos putting a turbo, header cam and all that on it and still only be about as much as a stock v8. Now, a V6 swap of some sort might be interesting.

Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2014, 08:11:26 PM »
I did my turbo swap for 500 bucks..... done and driving.... lets see you put a v8 in for that.... oh, and I am getting 27 mpg and spank most anything it rolls up on..theres a lot to be had with a 2.3 turbo
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Offline amc49

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2014, 08:52:07 PM »
That's pretty dang cheap.

To 5.0........... ..the .050" number came into being because it actually makes far more sense than the incredibly inaccurate (useless!) numbers lots of cam makers were spouting off. For one, the number is commonly used to begin right off the bat to determine TDC at the crank accurately, as well as measuring lobe centers dead accurate. The actual slope over the nose of any lobe is so slight that it is almost impossible to tell where lifting ends and dropping begins. Using .050" on both sides of the nose makes that point razor sharp. The longer cam numbers include varying degrees of clearance ramps that absolutely are worthless for determining the power of a cam. The .050" number as a result became a standard of sorts.

GM at one time trying to get people to buy the stock hot rod cams were claiming open valve numbers of close to 360 degrees! for crying out loud and physically impossible. The .050" number also at valve beginning to open is very close to where most valves begin to flow real world air numbers as well.

Far better to compare cams at .050" numbers, you weed out the bullsh-t doing it. Of course the metric people have thrown their own standard in there, or .040" (1 mm.), you gotta watch for that one too. That shows up on bike motor cams a lot.

Offline Rob3865

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2014, 09:29:09 PM »
I did my turbo swap for 500 bucks..... done and driving.... lets see you put a v8 in for that.... oh, and I am getting 27 mpg and spank most anything it rolls up on..theres a lot to be had with a 2.3 turbo

That's pretty danged good. But what kinda turbo? What country did it come from? Is it bronze sintered bushings or ball bearings? Was the turbo even new? It's certainly commendable what you've accomplished, but what is the long term durability? Lots of guys do turbos on the cheap. Lots of them don't last long, either.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2014, 09:36:06 PM »
That's pretty danged good. But what kinda turbo? What country did it come from? Is it bronze sintered bushings or ball bearings? Was the turbo even new? It's certainly commendable what you've accomplished, but what is the long term durability? Lots of guys do turbos on the cheap. Lots of them don't last long, either.

He means a Turbo Coupe engine fresh from the car with either a T3 or IHI turbo. I have a stack of em in my garage. It's not the Chinese generic turbo kit you see on Ebay, this is Ford quality parts built for 250K miles.
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Offline Rob3865

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Re: Performance please?
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2014, 10:59:10 PM »

He means a Turbo Coupe engine fresh from the car with either a T3 or IHI turbo. I have a stack of em in my garage. It's not the Chinese generic turbo kit you see on Ebay, this is Ford quality parts built for 250K miles.

I had actually forgotten about those. Yeah I imagine you can get those for a song now.