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Author Topic: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6  (Read 2507 times)

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Offline flatheadgary

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one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« on: December 19, 2015, 10:40:35 PM »
newbie here. a little about me. i am a drag racer at heart. i build altered drag cars. '23 t's, Austin/Bantams, Fiat Topolinos an such. i have had several pintos in my life but i just used them for the drive trains and front suspensions. i do have a liking for the station wagons though. maybe with a 302 in it just for fun.
one such vehicle i built is a tractor of sorts from a '75 pinto wagon. it's has a tube frame and a truck i beam front axle. i live in a desert area and it is almost impossible to move anything heavy in sand. i built this and put a cherry picker on the front and a 10 foot boom chain hoist on the back. it has been a life saver many times over in the last 25 years. i have not done much maintenance on it over the years but it usually runs when i need it. recently when it runs i have a heavy oil drain from the back of the block. i figured it was the rear main seal so i got one. i found out it is a one piece type. i don't have much experience with them and don't know what to expect when i tear into it. i looked up videos of such but could only find ford v8 and sbc ones. what i was wondering about is, do i drop the pan? how does a seal with an id of 2.00in fit over the crank flange? is the crank flange that small? is there a seal housing that holds it in place like a Chevy LS? i have a Haynes manual but it doesn't show much for the v6, but it shows a lot about the 4. 
thanks a lot for any help.   Gary
you can sleep in a wagon, with a cot, comfortably!!

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2015, 04:59:21 AM »
No experience with the V6 but the 1978 Ford manual indicates a one piece rear main seal like used on late 1980's 302's and 2.3's only smaller.  The pan does not need to be dropped.  The old seal is pried out and the new seal is tapped in.  The manual shows drilling a couple holes in the old seal and installing sheet metal screws to be used for prying it out.  The manual photo of the crank shows the rear flange to about the same diameter as the main journals which are ~2-1/4" (does seem small for a crank flange).

Before doing all the above work, suggest making sure the rear main seal is the leak source (could be a valve cover gasket, intake manifold gasket, or?).  I like to use one of those spray on and hose off engine cleaners.  Once dry, it leaves the engine oil free so the leak source can be seen and isolated.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline fh4ever

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2015, 09:03:10 AM »
hey gary, I looked in my Chiltons and same as the 2.3, it says..."special tools required...tak e it to the dealer".   I think these shop manuals were written at a time when not many owners worked on their own cars. 
I agree with oldkayaker...I drill two small holes in the one piece seal, use a sheet metal screw in a slide dent puller (the kind at advance auto) and they come right out.  You should be able to get to it after removing the flywheel. 
does your haynes say anything about the 2.3 two piece seal?  how to stagger the ends, where to put sealant, special tool to press into groove?     

Offline pinto_one

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2015, 03:03:52 PM »
The rear seal is a one piece , and larger than 2 inches , you might have the front seal , the real seal presses in like a late model 5.0 , into the block , the seal is the same as a 2.9 and the 4.0 along the the front seal being the same , the new one will be red , the old one is black and probably cracked up with old age, if it smokes when you first crank it up the vale stem seals are gone also , but just change all the seals and do a valve adjustment , these will run forever , might as well put a few dollars in it and keep the handy thing

76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline flatheadgary

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2015, 12:23:19 AM »
thanks for the replies guys. i measured the seal and it is 2.00 in id. if the flange is 2.250 in, i am really confused. when i bought the seal from NAPA, i got the 2 piece number online and the parts guy said it was a one piece. it may be the timing cover for all i know. i will try to post a pic of this contraption of mine so you can get a better idea of what it is. i pressure washed it real good, because it's a very open cockpit and when i get the trans out it just may be an oil galley plug or something else. it is really pouring out between the pan and the converter so it isn't anywhere else. i have really abused this thing over the years so it wouldn't surprise me if the pressure didn't just push the seal out. i had a similar thing happen to the c3 trans converter seal several times. it kept pushing the seal out and the fix was to drill 3 holes and tap them to screw in machine screws. problem solved. it's windy and raining the last few days here so don't want to get into it yet. good news too!! i just may be getting another pinto wagon very reasonable. i am in the process of putting a new motor in my '63 Plymouth Belvedere and when that's done, if he still has it, i may just get it. this one i want to restore. it's on craigslist. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/5342522264.html
you can sleep in a wagon, with a cot, comfortably!!

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2015, 05:21:03 AM »
Looked at a couple online parts sites and the rear flange OD is shown as 2.25" or 2.375".  Just speculating that the uninstalled seal ID measures 2.25" and flexes to 2.375" when installed, assuming these sites can be believed.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Rear-Main-Seal-Seal-Only-/_/R-NOS22353_0068827607
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1838542&cc=1135235&jnid=646&jpid=0
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=254068&cc=1135235&jnid=646&jpid=8

That craigslist ad mentions the car was last registered in 1992.  If you live in Calif., the new registration could get expensive, see recent thread below.
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=26478.msg162791#msg162791
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline flatheadgary

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2015, 09:17:06 AM »
yea i know about the reg cost. we have a great DMV in Ridgecrest. those girls have saved me a lot of money over the years on out of date regs's. obviously the car is not a '74, since the v6 came out in '75. i suppose, since he didn't have a pink he was just guessing. i'll find out when i call.
as far as the seal goes, it is a rubber seal in in a metal frame. i doubt it will expand any. i think i just got the wrong one. i am going to try and get to taking out the trans today and i will find out then.
you can sleep in a wagon, with a cot, comfortably!!

Offline flatheadgary

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2015, 07:34:10 PM »
i got to looking at the box the seal came in and it doesn't have the right year on it. i will take it back and see what they can do for me.
anyway, here is the pics of my tractor.





you can sleep in a wagon, with a cot, comfortably!!

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2015, 06:30:48 AM »
Interesting piece there, :D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline pinto_one

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 06:38:21 AM »
The seal might be right , the design is very old on this engine , it started life as a V-4 in the early 60s , then added two more cylinders to make it a 2.6 which was used in the ford Capri , in 74 it was punched out to a 2.8 , the mid 80s redone to a 2.9. And 1990 rolled around and here came the 4.0 ,  check and see if that seal fits all you have the right one , hope this helps ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline flatheadgary

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2015, 07:34:54 PM »
well, i finally got the seal out. i got the wrong seal from napa. it looks like it is 2.375 in side diameter and 3.00 outside diameter. now i just have to wait until the first, when i get some money for gas,  and go back.
you can sleep in a wagon, with a cot, comfortably!!

Offline pinto_one

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2015, 07:45:39 PM »
I figured it was to small , I do believe the one you got is for the front , the later ones last a real long time , my wife's Bronco II had almost 400k before the trans took a dump , it had the red color seal ,

76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline flatheadgary

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2015, 09:28:54 PM »
yea pinto one, the one that came out is the red one.
you can sleep in a wagon, with a cot, comfortably!!

Offline flatheadgary

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2016, 10:52:49 PM »
for anybody interested in the rest of this story, i finally got it running. they wanted 35.00 dollars for the right seal at most places so i bought it from rock auto for about 16.00 bucks. i try to put it in and promptly destroy it. order it again and wait for another 1.1/2 weeks. in the mean time i made a tool to install it flush and EUREKA!!! it worked. no leaks, no runs, no errors. so thanks for all the help everybody.
you can sleep in a wagon, with a cot, comfortably!!

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: one piece rear main seal on a 2.8L V6
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2016, 06:34:54 AM »
Glad to hear you got it fixed.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.