PINTO CAR CLUB of AMERICA
Welcome to FordPinto.com, The home of the PCCA => General Help- Ask the Experts... => Topic started by: dag on September 23, 2014, 10:17:08 PM
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can someone tell me what kind of oil should I use in a 1972 pinto manual transmission and what kind (if different) should i use in the rear end.
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70-80-90 weight gear oil should work in either one, lean toward 90 on the rear diff.
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70-80-90 weight gear oil should work in either one, lean toward 90 on the rear diff.
What about the use of synthetic in these trannys. Do you have recommendation s?
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REDLINE MTL.
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Would work fine, I'd lean more to 90 or even plus a bit on diff.
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Don't forget 85W-140
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I'd use that in the rear, might make shifting stiff in the cold in MTX.
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With Redline MTL, the stock 4 speed will shift like it got hot butter for lube. If you want to try different lubes, do like I did and put a drain plug on the bottom of the tranie at its lowest point. You can even do it with the tranie in the car if you start out with a small drill, and a big drain pan. I taped mine to 1/2-20 as a lot of drain plugs are that size.
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I'm currently rebuilding a 1980 Pinto 4 speed FOG tranny and am looking for the right fluid. Would you recommend one of these, or should I go with traditional fluid?
http://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=7 (http://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=7)
Thanks
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MTL
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I use Sta-Lube GL-4 gear oil for gearboxes that take gear oil and any ol' GL-5 for rear ends.
GL-5 should not be used where yellow metals are exposed to the oil. That means the brass blocker rings in a transmission.. .
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http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.widman.biz%2Fuploads%2FTransaxle_oil.pdf&ei=mKkoVKayK4-GyASdzYKgAQ&usg=AFQjCNGvhgO1tsBXM6FGRNGcLx3cL-U9Eg&bvm=bv.76247554,d.aWw
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I use Sta-Lube GL-4 gear oil for gearboxes that take gear oil and any ol' GL-5 for rear ends.
GL-5 should not be used where yellow metals are exposed to the oil. That means the brass blocker rings in a transmission.. .
This is quite interesting. I've had people recommend the following GL-5 since it's not synthetic, but your point changes that as my trans has brass rings and brass thrust washers. NS fluid was recommended due to the friction modifier in synthetics.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7 (http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7)
The Pinto shop manual recommended ESW-M2C83-C (see below). This manual was written in 1979, so is there a comparable product made today?
PRODUCT DATA SHEET
GEAR OIL 75W/90
HIGH PERFORMANCE AUTOMOTIVE GEAR OIL
DESCRIPTION
GEAR OIL 75W/90 is high performance gear oil for modern manual transmissions. The balance of viscosity and frictional
properties ensures good shift feel and fast gear change. This gear oil is ideal for today’s 4 and 5 speed manual gearboxes which need low viscosity oil for smooth gearshifts. It is recommended for use when SAE 75W or 80W oils are specified.
GEAR OIL 75W/90 has excellent cold temperature characteristic s which ensures maximum protection to gearboxes and differentials.
BENEFITS
GEAR OIL 75W/90
• Excellent cold gear shift and superior protection when hot
• Low gear wear
• Anti-corrosion agents for longer gear life
• Anti-Oxidants for longer oil life
• Extreme pressure additives for low gear wear
GEAR OIL 75W/90 meets or exceeds the following specifications .
• API Service Classification Exceeds GL5
• U.S MILITARY MIL-L-2105D
• FORD ESP-M2C83-C
• BORG WARNER 5M-42
• MITSUBISHI ES-X-64021
HEALTH & SAFETY
Information is available on the relevant Material Safety Data Sheet.
TYPICAL MAIN CHARACTERISTIC S
DESCRIPTION UNITS METHODS TYPICAL
APPEARANCE VISUAL CLEAR & BRIGHT
DENSITY @ 15°C Kg/L ASTM D1298/D4052 0.871
FLASH POINT °C ASTM D92 176
VISCOSITY, KINEMATIC cSt @ 40°C Mm2/s ASTM D445 73.2
VISCOSITY, KINEMATIC cSt @ 100°C Mm2/s ASTM D445 10.5
VISCOSITY INDEX Mm2/s ASTM D2270 150
POUR POINT °C °C ASTM D97 -27
Due to continual product research and development, the information contained herein is subject to formulation change without notice.
Values stated are average values only and may vary due to manufacturing tolerances.
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A lot of the old specs like GL-1, 2, and 3 and Dextron-I/II/III are obsolete, partly because the vehicle they were for are too.
If you can get some guarantee from the manufacturer that their GL-5 is suitable for use with yellow metals, I would run that. GL-4 is the otherwise safe fallback that is still actually available. There are some motorcycle gear oils that meet GL-3 and 4 specs. Silkolene is one.
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A lot of the old specs like GL-1, 2, and 3 and Dextron-I/II/III are obsolete, partly because the vehicle they were for are too.
If you can get some guarantee from the manufacturer that their GL-5 is suitable for use with yellow metals, I would run that. GL-4 is the otherwise safe fallback that is still actually available. There are some motorcycle gear oils that meet GL-3 and 4 specs. Silkolene is one.
Makes sense. You stated that you are using Sta-Lube GL-4. Is that something you recommend for the older Pinto trannys?
Where is it available?
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https://www.google.com/search?q=gl-4+gear+oil&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&q=crc+gl-4+gear+oil
Old-timey auto parts stores used to carry it. I got it years ago from a Parts Plus that later became an Advance Auto and is currently a Napa and they still stock it...to the tune of $38/gal. :o
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...........I got it years ago from a Parts Plus that later became an Advance Auto and is currently a Napa and they still stock it...to the tune of $38/gal. :o
How much fluid do we need in the 4 speed tranny?
(I'm seeing quarts of other trans fluid listed at $16 at various places, so $30.19/gal isn't bad comparatively).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000M8RYMC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000M8RYMC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
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While on the subject, I don't recall anything in an open Ford 8" (circa late 70's) that was brass but..., when I swapped out my 3.00's for 3.40's I used the GL-5 I had on hand. So..., just wondering?
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I found this interesting and thought I would post it for everyone:
Warning About Gear Oil
WARNING:
All modern gear oil available today in local retail outlets is GL-5 grade. GL-5 grade gear oil contains sulphur compounds that attack brass and bronze. BMW transmissions and final drives made before 1992 contain bushings and thrust washers made of these metals. Any brand of gear oil that is GL-5 rated will attack bushings and thrust washers.
Look for:
acc070A--$8.95--80W 90 GL-4 gear CRC brand
CRC® Sta-Lube® Multi-Purpose HYPOID SAE 85W90 Gear Oil API/GL-4:
CRC® Sta-Lube® Multi-Purpose HYPOID SAE 85W90 Gear Oil API/GL-4 is specially formulated to meet the unique requirements of API GL-4 service in manual transmissions and transaxles of passenger cars, light trucks and SUV’s. CRC® Sta-Lube® Multi-Purpose HYPOID SAE 85W90 Gear Oil API/GL-4 is blended from select base stocks and additives that yield a lubricant of exacting quality. This product is compounded utilizing specialized extreme pressure chemistry that provides protection of gears and bearings without being corrosive to bronze components. It contains foam suppressants to prevent wear, which can be caused by lubricant foaming and aeration. Effective rust and corrosion inhibitors protect metal surfaces from the effects of water contamination from condensation and the operating environment. CRC® Sta-Lube® Multi-Purpose HYPOID SAE 85W90 Gear Oil API/GL-4 resists the formation of varnish deposits on synchronizer components, thus assuring long, trouble-free operation.
CRC® Sta-Lube® Multi-Purpose HYPOID SAE 85W90 Gear Oil API/GL-4 gives the full protection of an SAE 90 under hard driving conditions while providing the flow characteristic s of SAE 80W that are necessary during cold weather start-ups. This offers maximum lubrication and gear protection over a wide temperature range.
CRC® Sta-Lube® Multi-Purpose HYPOID SAE 85W90 Gear Oil API/GL-4 is designed for manual transmissions and transaxles of both American and import vehicles. It is formulated to be compatible with “yellow metals”, such as bronze, found in synchronizers and other transmission components.
BENEFITS:
• Meets the performance requirements of API GL-4 Service
• Will not cause glazing of synchronizer components
• Excellent thermal stability
• Outstanding extreme pressure and antiwear protection
• Prevents rust and corrosion
• Inhibits foaming and aeration
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GL-5 works fine in a rear end all day long.
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GL-5 works fine in a rear end all day long.
But apparently not in a tranny with brass rings and brass thrust washers.
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GL-5 is better than GL-4 for differentials.
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GL-5 is better than GL-4 for differentials.
Thanks. That's good to know for when I get to the differential rebuild. ☺
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I'll add that GL-4 was specified for some gearboxes at least into the mid 1990s, but it started disappearing from shelves about 15 years ago. A lot of manufacturers still make it, especially for the Euro market, but most chain stores don't stock it here. >:(
Stocking even just one brand/type of GL-4 would be nice for those of us who need it. Pennzoil Synchromesh inventory moves at least as slowly as GL-4 would and Synchromesh is always stocked. I can still find it in containers with the label design that changed last year.
[/rant]
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Good point.
There are some challenges when your hobby is restoring older cars. I looked around for the right trans fluid but only found stuff for today's cars.
I did find this and will most likely order it. The quantity is way more than I need, but at least I'll have it around for future use... (when this stuff becomes really impossible to find).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000M8RYMC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&p;smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER;sc=1& (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000M8RYMC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&p;smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER;sc=1&)
What GL-5 do you recommend for the diff?
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What GL-5 do you recommend for the diff?
For something as lightly-loaded as the driveline in a 4cyl Pinto, whatever is cheapest will be fine.
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Anyone out there know what GL-6 is or was. Just saw some lube at Walmart that said it replaced GL-6. Price was the same as GL-5. The bottle did not have a GL # on it.
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For something as lightly-loaded as the driveline in a 4cyl Pinto, whatever is cheapest will be fine.
As in Walmart.
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www.mysalehero .com/sta+lube has the same oil in qt size.
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http://www.westfalia.org/community/showthread.php?189-use-of-gl-5transmission-fluid-in-gl-4-spec-transmissions will tell all about gear lube.
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Anyone out there know what GL-6 is or was. Just saw some lube at Walmart that said it replaced GL-6. Price was the same as GL-5. The bottle did not have a GL # on it.
I believe it was a spec for diffs with a lot of pinion offset. The Olds Toronado comes up a lot in reference.
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Main difference in -4 and -5 spec is that -5 has the friction modifiers already in it for p-trac clutches or cones, the -4 does not and you have to use the p-trac additive (graphite or moly based) for your brand of differential to stop snapping noises at cornering. You can run either one in open diffs.
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I've never heard that before.
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When at parts store when they bought -4 and came back complaining about p-trac snapping, change to -5 and problem gone. I did it several times with different customers and spoke to the lube rep about it, he verified it. We carried the separate additive as well and sold it if they wanted a -4 lube. Manager (a woman) first clued me into it, not that I didn't believe her but I like more confirrnation. It seemed to be true. I had never heard it before either.
After some rooting around it may be that GL-4 had some of the additive but GL-5 has even more. Another reason not to run it in MTX, the synchros will try to slip more and not wanted there.
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Summit has Brad Penn GL-4 in stock for about $8.00 a quart. This is the old Kendal oil co with a new name.
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GL-5 works fine in a rear end all day long.
Is GL-5 OK for Pintos??? My repair books say to use 90w API GL5
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I'm inclined to say, "No" in the transmission. Where as the GL-5 meets or succeeds the lubrication aspects of GL-4..., it has aspects to it's formula that eats the brass in the transmission. You can use it in the differential (I'm told) because it lacks the brass components. Read the link below. For a quick reference go to page 8 "summary."
http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf
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VERY good article Wittsend! I really think Red Line MTL is the best tranie / rear end oil there is. Hi $$ but you only need to use it once for a long time. Makes a Pinto tranie shift like it has hot butter inside. Good stuff!