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Offline Qwerser

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manual rack
« on: April 11, 2014, 08:04:31 PM »
Received my manual rack and pinion from rock auto today (for only $83 by the way) and got about halfway through before I had to go to work. Only got as far as removing the two large bolts from the cross member (?) and removed the tie rod ends, counting the rotations, and partially removing the pump. Not that I've ran into any significant problems, but I have a few questions, that if unanswered, I may be able to just figure out myself.
1 is that there does not seem to be any clearance between the oil pan and rack to remove it. If I have to, I'll just drop the pan and get a new gasket in there while I've got it removed.
2 is that I can't get the pump off due to the heads of the mounting bolts not being able to unscrew any further than the pully will allow. In other words,I can't back them out any more because they hit the pully. How do I remove the pully from the pump?
3 I haven't even began to assess the rag joint (?) to see how the splines of the input shaft attach to the steering shaft...thing.
Also really hoping I bought the right diameter input shaft for the job!
Measured the circumference of the power steering input shaft with string and ruler and then converted it to diameter and only got 1 inch. There were no options for one inch so I got the one that was closest, which was 1.25 inches.
Oh well I guess. I'll just have to try to figure it out.
Let me know what you guys think and sorry for not knowing all the terms, but hopefully you get the point, and I'll check my Haynes for some ideas tonight.

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2014, 06:30:03 PM »
I know the answer to 1 (for the early models, at least) is that you can remove the driver's side tire and thread the rack out from the side. Not sure on the newer ones, they mount slightly differently.

Offline Rob3865

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2014, 07:18:39 PM »
Wouldn't it be easier to unbolt the motor mounts and jack the engine up instead of removing the oil pan?

Offline Qwerser

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2014, 12:41:02 PM »
Ok well I got a little further. To remove the pump, you need to remove the three bolts holding it to the block. I had trouble because they were to long to remove without first removing the pully. I rented a power steering pully remover from advance after some research of my own. You'd think someone would have heard of this before and recommended it to me.

Then I removed the "pinch bolt" that pinches the input shaft of the rack. You'd think someone had seen this before and told me prior to disassembling the entire lower steering column.

Now my only problem is getting the two large bolts out of the cross member that holds the rack in place. I removed the two nuts from the front of it with a 15/16" wrench, but now the bolts won't come out. I've tried smacking them out from the front with a hammer, and turning the head in the back with the same 15/16" socket to no avail. In fact, the bolt is stuck in there so bad, that the only way I could twist the bolt was to adjust the socket wrench in such a manner that I could get the jack under it and pump it up. The seal didn't break and I turned it at least half a turn. It's getting no less harder to turn after using the jack.
So before I break something, does anyone have any insight of removing the large bolts? Yes I know, wd40, heat the bolt bla bla bla.

And no Rob, undoing the motor mounts and raising the engine is not easier than dropping the oil pan. Are you kidding me? Did you even read my post?

And no Dad, I'm not removing my inner tie rod. Did you even read my post?

How does this thread have 90 views and no-one has any idea what I'm talking about?
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, don't even bother replying, just stay tuned and I'll do a write up when done on how to convert power to manual steering.

Offline Pintosopher

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2014, 01:23:36 PM »
Ok well I got a little further. To remove the pump, you need to remove the three bolts holding it to the block. I had trouble because they were to long to remove without first removing the pully. I rented a power steering pully remover from advance after some research of my own. You'd think someone would have heard of this before and recommended it to me.

Then I removed the "pinch bolt" that pinches the input shaft of the rack. You'd think someone had seen this before and told me prior to disassembling the entire lower steering column.

Now my only problem is getting the two large bolts out of the cross member that holds the rack in place. I removed the two nuts from the front of it with a 15/16" wrench, but now the bolts won't come out. I've tried smacking them out from the front with a hammer, and turning the head in the back with the same 15/16" socket to no avail. In fact, the bolt is stuck in there so bad, that the only way I could twist the bolt was to adjust the socket wrench in such a manner that I could get the jack under it and pump it up. The seal didn't break and I turned it at least half a turn. It's getting no less harder to turn after using the jack.
So before I break something, does anyone have any insight of removing the large bolts? Yes I know, wd40, heat the bolt bla bla bla.

And no Rob, undoing the motor mounts and raising the engine is not easier than dropping the oil pan. Are you kidding me? Did you even read my post?

And no Dad, I'm not removing my inner tie rod. Did you even read my post?

How does this thread have 90 views and no-one has any idea what I'm talking about?
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, don't even bother replying, just stay tuned and I'll do a write up when done on how to convert power to manual steering.

 Qwerser,
 The "challenges" you are experiencing are even present on today's newer cars, especially with Power steering access and rack assemblies. Perhaps you would do well to remember that many of us have "gone through the Fire" of these type of repairs, and that help and information flows better without a projected "attitude".
 We all have different solutions for many of the same problems. By comparison , these cars are a cakewalk when put to a Modern FWD transverse motor vehicle.
 Continued good luck in your Project,

 Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Offline amc49

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2014, 01:51:19 PM »
Just what the world needs, another high maintenance crybaby....... ............yo u can just get in line behind the other 5 1/2 billion people.

People respond because they want to, not because they owe you anything. You are totally out of line by DEMANDING response, I can just imagine how well the rest of your life goes.

Thirty seconds of looking would have revealed the pinch bolt, oh, forgot, you have to be TOLD how to do everything or you screw it up. You seem to say that yourself so don't get all uptight about it. Learn from the extra unneeded work, much more valuable to you than us helping the baby to crawl. A minute of looking and thinking beats 2 hours of work for nothing every day.

Luck but you need the reality check. People here will help but they have lives as well, and sometimes the help is not direct and exact, you will not get the 100 page book there. You have to put it all together yourself often, and why we all paid taxes so you could go to school to learn to think. What did you expect here, a factory mechanic at your beck and call and for free? Message to self, most Pinto experts have PASSED AWAY. Any left will not lift a finger for you with the way you come across.

Like I keep saying over and over, often the driver must be fixed before the car can be.

Pintosopher, you put it well, unfortunately I am more blunt than that. I was thinking of modern EFI cars as well and if this simple crackerbox Pinto is confusing then this guy best not open a hood on a new car........... .

Offline poomwah

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2014, 02:21:21 PM »
Often the driver must be fixed before the car can be.....   I REALLY like that.


and not to pile on, but I can only wholeheartedly agree about the simplicity of the pinto. That's ONE of the many reasons I got mine. It's a throw back to a simpler time.


there are still a lot of questions that I have asked from people on here to try to save myself some aggravation and some wasted effort, but I'm patient about responses, thankful for the ones I get, and not the least resentful about the questions that go unanswered.
 

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2014, 02:23:35 PM »
Ok well I got a little further. To remove the pump, you need to remove the three bolts holding it to the block. I had trouble because they were to long to remove without first removing the pully. I rented a power steering pully remover from advance after some research of my own. You'd think someone would have heard of this before and recommended it to me.

Then I removed the "pinch bolt" that pinches the input shaft of the rack. You'd think someone had seen this before and told me prior to disassembling the entire lower steering column.

Now my only problem is getting the two large bolts out of the cross member that holds the rack in place. I removed the two nuts from the front of it with a 15/16" wrench, but now the bolts won't come out. I've tried smacking them out from the front with a hammer, and turning the head in the back with the same 15/16" socket to no avail. In fact, the bolt is stuck in there so bad, that the only way I could twist the bolt was to adjust the socket wrench in such a manner that I could get the jack under it and pump it up. The seal didn't break and I turned it at least half a turn. It's getting no less harder to turn after using the jack.
So before I break something, does anyone have any insight of removing the large bolts? Yes I know, wd40, heat the bolt bla bla bla.

And no Rob, undoing the motor mounts and raising the engine is not easier than dropping the oil pan. Are you kidding me? Did you even read my post?

And no Dad, I'm not removing my inner tie rod. Did you even read my post?

How does this thread have 90 views and no-one has any idea what I'm talking about?
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, don't even bother replying, just stay tuned and I'll do a write up when done on how to convert power to manual steering.

My post said "tire", not "tie rod". Did you read mine? :D lol

Offline amc49

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2014, 02:31:03 PM »
Obviously no. I got what you said instantly. You slide the rack out sideways through the hole made there.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2014, 02:54:36 PM »
I rarely criticize anyone with just a few posts because everyone has a learning curve & a few have never picked up a wrench before but I have to ask if you have been on the HAMB posting. That crappy attitude of yours is identical to 95% of their members. I can't even stand reading posts on that site with the attitudes those morons have. Try it again with less attitude.
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2014, 03:21:37 PM »
I'll second that. Those people on HAMB are all charter members and want to stay that way. Bunch of jerks.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2014, 03:29:24 PM »
I'll second that. Those people on HAMB are all charter members and want to stay that way. Bunch of jerks.

None of the words I'd use for those clowns will post over here. Posting there is like being the only normal person on a board that is 99.999% trolls!
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2014, 04:40:54 PM »
Wouldn't it be easier to unbolt the motor mounts and jack the engine up instead of removing the oil pan?

For that matter, isn't it a lot easier (if not required---haven't tried it on mine yet) to jack the motor up off the mounts to change the pan gasket? :) lol

Offline dick1172762

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2014, 05:10:16 PM »
Maybe Qwerser should get some of those "good ole boys" down in NASCAR land to help him out. I'm sure NC has a few of them.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline poomwah

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2014, 05:42:21 PM »
For that matter, isn't it a lot easier (if not required---haven't tried it on mine yet) to jack the motor up off the mounts to change the pan gasket? :) lol
I, like Pinto5.0, wouldn't normally criticize someone's lack of knowledge. But if you've got the knowledge and skills to pull the oil pan but can't figure out how to pull a steering rack, there's something wrong.
 I always try to remove and reseal parts just for the sake of gaining clearance.  Why on earth would I want to pull a couple bolts when I pull a dozen and buy a new gasket

Offline poomwah

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2014, 05:43:59 PM »
Maybe Qwerser should get some of those "good ole boys" down in NASCAR land to help him out. I'm sure NC has a few of them.
that might not be a bad idea as long as he doesn't want his pinto to turn right

Offline Qwerser

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2014, 05:48:23 PM »
Hey look at that! I hurt your feelings? Or was I speaking Chinese earlier? If I knew that all I had to do was poke fun at your liver spots to get a response, I would have done that in the first place. Only ten views later and I got a whole lot more than I would have after making ten more threads.

You guys are like broken records. A few searches shows these questions have been asked at least 15 different times. They get one beat around the bush reply and two weeks later, someone asks the same thing.
This forum sounds like a broken record.
"Cheap power upgrades" (non existent)
"Alternate carburetor options"
"How do I get rid of these vacuum lines"
"What wheels fit"
"Rear disc brake conversion"
"What 5 speed fits"
"How do I upgrade to electronic ignition"
Take your time to answer these repetative questions in depth and sticky them. Then we can move on to different topics.

F***, make a dedicated how to page on these simple questions.

I'd love to tell you how I'm machining an adaptor plate for a weber 48idf, but I'm afraid nobody would care. It'd just be washed out by other stupid threads.
I'm done asking questions, I'll just post write ups and you can sticky them or just let them get lost beyond page two and have new members ask the same questions over and over.
I don't like doing things the hard way, but looks like I'll have to figure it out myself.

Stay tuned, maybe you'll learn something.

Offline poomwah

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2014, 05:52:30 PM »
you would have got a lot farther if you had been patient and didn't complain because nobody bent over backwards to meet your schedule.
 People on here are a GREAT help. There are many occasions where I didn't have the time to wait for a response, so I bit the bullet and went and figured it out.  I didn't let my tampon string get in the way and then complain that someone else should have told me not to.
  Hate this forum all you want, I love it

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: manual rack
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2014, 06:05:31 PM »
This thread needs to be locked before it goes any further downhill. ;)