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Offline pintobeans1267

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ignition troubles
« on: July 26, 2016, 11:48:52 PM »
Hello comrades, Today I spent the day trying to manually re-attach each individual wire on the instrument cluster of my 76 beater wagon I I attached wire crimps to the bronze connector strips, cut the plug that fit inside the original cluster back which apparently is made of nothing more than the ashes of Henry Ford himself, and fit wires leading to each other. Not to mention I have just enough of my backing to duct tape my gauges to the cluster itself. Needless to say the shizod barley works I see like 3 lights on and no gauge activity. Anywaays the reason im posting is because I have a confusing starter issue. right now  if I try to turn it over it just buzzes by the starter, but no movement. At times when I turn it over the starter will stick running and turning over as the car is running in which case I disconnect the the battery and call it a day. Then at other times if ive previously tryed to start, failed, and put on a 2 amp charge, the *EXPLETIVE DELETED* thing will spark loudly as soon as the negative battery goes on. As far as I can tell the starter works fine, the main problem is current running to it when it shouldnt. Or A gounding issue but the starter grounds are tight, so im wondering if the key lock cylinder housing having bad ground can cause this as i replaced the key lock cylinder and various other possible things that could be causing a short or bad sticking connection. The weird thing is when ive been messing with it for a few days and the car feels like it itll eventually start up and run strong, but since its a manual I stall constantly which calls for using the key and ignition system and eventually, usually luck runs out and that *EXPLETIVE DELETED* starter starts running with the car again or just plays dead. Go to the store, smoke a joint and bam itll fire up first try as long as you give it to her and thats usually enough to get home.One more possibility is if the spring in the key lock that pushes the ignition rod is worn or somthing causing it to not move all the way after an attempt to crank the car over. Any advice/ input appreciated , fire at will 
"I only drive it if I can sleep in it"

Offline dick1172762

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 11:50:59 AM »
With your poor use of X rated words, you should drive a Volvo. Try posting on a Volvo web site in the future. We get enough X rated words off of tv these days.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline pintobeans1267

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 12:06:02 PM »
With your poor use of X rated words, you should drive a Volvo. Try posting on a Volvo web site in the future. We get enough X rated words off of tv these days.
Your concern and offence has been noted, thank you.
"I only drive it if I can sleep in it"

Offline pintobeans1267

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 12:18:35 PM »
With your poor use of X rated words, you should drive a Volvo. Try posting on a Volvo web site in the future. We get enough X rated words off of tv these days.
Lastly, Id also like to point out that its your own fault for subjecting yourself to TV and the internet therefore, you clearly dont mind "X" rated content all to much given the fact that you just said you clearly "get enough of it on the tv", and appear to be the member of a foulmouthed mechanics website. Carry on
"I only drive it if I can sleep in it"

Offline Wittsend

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2016, 01:22:43 PM »
There is a starter solenoid Ford uses mounted on the inner fender. It is a round stubby item about 2" long and is square at one end. It has two large and two small wire mounts . It can be found by tracing the positive cable from the battery.  This is the "switch" that carries the high current draw to run the starter. Because of the current draw it can arc and eventually either stick, or not function from corrosion.  While the starter itself can still be defective the solenoid is easier to get to and cheaper to replace. Therefore it is often recommended as the first item to check.

While I happy to assist someone relating to Pinto matters the forum does require appropriate language and not provoking others .  Dick's comments were relating to the casual use of profanity found today and not that he deliberately tuning into hear it.  As a 23 year college instructor I always was confounded that students used the most offensive words in everyday conversation.  It left me to wonder what words they used when they deliberately intended to be offensive???

Offline pintobeans1267

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2016, 03:31:26 PM »
There is a starter solenoid Ford uses mounted on the inner fender. It is a round stubby item about 2" long and is square at one end. It has two large and two small wire mounts . It can be found by tracing the positive cable from the battery.  This is the "switch" that carries the high current draw to run the starter. Because of the current draw it can arc and eventually either stick, or not function from corrosion.  While the starter itself can still be defective the solenoid is easier to get to and cheaper to replace. Therefore it is often recommended as the first item to check.

While I happy to assist someone relating to Pinto matters the forum does require appropriate language and not provoking others .  Dick's comments were relating to the casual use of profanity found today and not that he deliberately tuning into hear it.  As a 23 year college instructor I always was confounded that students used the most offensive words in everyday conversation.  It left me to wonder what words they used when they deliberately intended to be offensive???
As far as it goes with Dick, were on the internet in the real world. In both places people swear/curse/ and express inner turmoil, for reasons. They may not be good or bad but there are reasons. In application to this situation, I was writing a paragraph in which I was expressing my situation and emotions attached to described situations in order to give an explanation that, to my best ability is something the reader can visualize, comprehend, and hopefully understand enough to be able to offer assistance. Being a total beginner when it comes to working on cars and having 2 year project restore in the works, not to mention im only a 19 year old highschool dropout, im doing my best to relay and communicate information in a useful manner on somthing that is a "learn as you go/fix it if you fras it up" driven project. Now back to the car issues, is what youre refering to the ignition coil? as far as I know the only solonoid is the one directly off the battery.
"I only drive it if I can sleep in it"

Offline Wittsend

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 04:12:14 PM »
This first picture solenoid (probably better called a relay - my bad) is from an early Pinto (circled in red). The second picture is a later car (also circled in red). Again no guarantee it is the problem, but it is where people usually check first. Because your problem is intermittent it can be hard to find.  Be careful (and do at your own risk) because problems like this can be dangerous.

If the car is still electrically cranking after it starts then I'd assume the relay.  If the cranking stops but the starter still seems engaged (but not electrically powered) then I'd assume it is the starter drive hanging up. Beyond that I have nothing more to offer.

Offline pintobeans1267

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 09:42:49 PM »
Spent all day sitting in the heat and charging for a few hours and fired right up around 4:00 pm. sat idle and purred like a dream, made sure to fire off the horn a few times for the neighbors. Shall report how the planned evening drive goes as temperature has played a role in starting in the past. my pinto seems to like the heat. Perhaps certan metal parts or springs in the ignition lock cylinder or starter motor move more freeely in the heat?
"I only drive it if I can sleep in it"

Offline pintobeans1267

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2016, 12:40:59 AM »
Spent all day sitting in the heat and charging for a few hours and fired right up around 4:00 pm. sat idle and purred like a dream, made sure to fire off the horn a few times for the neighbors. Shall report how the planned evening drive goes as temperature has played a role in starting in the past. my pinto seems to like the heat. Perhaps certain metal parts or springs in the ignition lock cylinder or starter motor move more freely in the heat?
  - 9:00PM - Stalled and just buzzed at the first attempt to crank over, jiggled the keys back and forth a few times pumped the gas and it fired right up. Left the car idle for about ten minutes then killed power. Turned the keys over it started and I was relieved thinking it wouldn't buzz anymore, but sure enough i killed the power to see if it would start again and not even a crank. just a loud buzz from the starter and after checking power something from that experience left my battery too drained to crank, hence the buzz.  On the plus side the starter didnt try to keep cranking over after i let off the key as it likes to do until i unplug the battery, and also no sparks when i took off the terminal! still calling it a win for the day. Plan on charging in the morning and attempting a drive again in the mid day heat which seems to be its preferred time of day to work.
"I only drive it if I can sleep in it"

Offline dga57

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2016, 01:55:29 AM »
pintobeans1267,


As a group, the PCCA is always happy to welcome new, young blood and we most assuredly support your interest in Ford Pintos.  We do however, have certain standards we try to maintain... mainly to keep this site "family friendly" and non-offensive.  To that end, I deleted the offensive words from your initial post.  Also, while we admittedly sometimes have spirited disagreements and discussions, they are generally handled with a little class.  Verbally attacking an elder long-time member is not an advised method of making friends here, nor obtaining the assistance you are requesting.


I am a strong believer in second chances so please consider this a friendly reminder to watch your language; you'll find your time here much more pleasant if you do. 


dga57
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Offline pintobeans1267

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2016, 02:12:14 PM »
pintobeans1267,


As a group, the PCCA is always happy to welcome new, young blood and we most assuredly support your interest in Ford Pintos.  We do however, have certain standards we try to maintain... mainly to keep this site "family friendly" and non-offensive.  To that end, I deleted the offensive words from your initial post.  Also, while we admittedly sometimes have spirited disagreements and discussions, they are generally handled with a little class.  Verbally attacking an elder long-time member is not an advised method of making friends here, nor obtaining the assistance you are requesting.


I am a strong believer in second chances so please consider this a friendly reminder to watch your language; you'll find your time here much more pleasant if you do. 


dga57
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  Ive never seen someone so sensitive to typed words before. My bad its a really cool site youve got here and its cool to feel part of the best time in automotive history
"I only drive it if I can sleep in it"

Offline pintobeans1267

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2016, 02:24:06 PM »
pintobeans1267,


As a group, the PCCA is always happy to welcome new, young blood and we most assuredly support your interest in Ford Pintos.  We do however, have certain standards we try to maintain... mainly to keep this site "family friendly" and non-offensive.  To that end, I deleted the offensive words from your initial post.  Also, while we admittedly sometimes have spirited disagreements and discussions, they are generally handled with a little class.  Verbally attacking an elder long-time member is not an advised method of making friends here, nor obtaining the assistance you are requesting.


I am a strong believer in second chances so please consider this a friendly reminder to watch your language; you'll find your time here much more pleasant if you do. 


dga57
Chief Moderator/Administrator
On another note is there a common issue of battery levels dropping past 11v after a few (3) times firing up, leaving the car too dead to turn over?
"I only drive it if I can sleep in it"

Offline dga57

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2016, 01:43:52 AM »
  Ive never seen someone so sensitive to typed words before. My bad its a really cool site youve got here and its cool to feel part of the best time in automotive history
On another note is there a common issue of battery levels dropping past 11v after a few (3) times firing up, leaving the car too dead to turn over?

I'll take that first quote as both an apology and a compliment.  I think we have a really cool site too, and we're just trying to keep it that way.  As to your question, there is no known issue that I'm aware of, but I'm not of a mechanical nature.  I was wondering... have you checked the ignition switch to make sure it isn't the problem? 

Dwayne :)
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2016, 07:36:57 AM »
First thing, check all grounds..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline blupinto

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2016, 10:59:19 PM »
As someone who has been battling an unhappy '74 wagon, I can relate to the starting issues, and I agree with 74Pinto Wagon... check the grounds, and don't be surprised if you have an iffy starter. Moxie BluBelle had both issues. Because I was initially in denial that it could possibly be a starter (But it was rebuilt just two years ago!!!), I fouled up the carburetor settings just so I could get home from my Dad's! Not only was the starter bad, but the alternator was dead, the grounds were incomplete, and the starter (yes that rebuilt-just-two-years-ago starter)was toast. Everything was fixed and/or replaced... now I need to brush up on my carburetor skills...

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Offline pintobeans1267

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2016, 02:47:27 PM »
As someone who has been battling an unhappy '74 wagon, I can relate to the starting issues, and I agree with 74Pinto Wagon... check the grounds, and don't be surprised if you have an iffy starter. Moxie BluBelle had both issues. Because I was initially in denial that it could possibly be a starter (But it was rebuilt just two years ago!!!), I fouled up the carburetor settings just so I could get home from my Dad's! Not only was the starter bad, but the alternator was dead, the grounds were incomplete, and the starter (yes that rebuilt-just-two-years-ago starter)was toast. Everything was fixed and/or replaced... now I need to brush up on my carburetor skills...
At this point i think a push button start is going to do justice, ive just got no clue where to hook up the two wires for the push button
"I only drive it if I can sleep in it"

Offline r4pinto

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2016, 03:50:42 PM »
As someone who has been battling an unhappy '74 wagon, I can relate to the starting issues, and I agree with 74Pinto Wagon... check the grounds, and don't be surprised if you have an iffy starter. Moxie BluBelle had both issues. Because I was initially in denial that it could possibly be a starter (But it was rebuilt just two years ago!!!), I fouled up the carburetor settings just so I could get home from my Dad's! Not only was the starter bad, but the alternator was dead, the grounds were incomplete, and the starter (yes that rebuilt-just-two-years-ago starter)was toast. Everything was fixed and/or replaced... now I need to brush up on my carburetor skills...

In that case come and take care of my carburetor. Lord knows if the one from my 1980 is ok after the fire & the 77 was a slug ;D ;D
Matt Manter
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1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2016, 07:46:58 AM »
At this point i think a push button start is going to do justice, ive just got no clue where to hook up the two wires for the push button
From the "S" pole on the solenoid to a push button to the +battery cable.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline r4pinto

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2016, 03:28:50 PM »
Been using that set up on my 77 for years. Never replaced the bad neutral safety switch. The car always started up with the button.
Matt Manter
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: ignition troubles
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2016, 07:28:25 AM »
Can't get any simpler and pretty much fool proof..
Art
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