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Offline ryan1

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i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« on: November 02, 2012, 06:50:33 PM »
i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 ford fairmont 2.3 motor, that i swapped into my 83 ford ranger.

i bought the ranger with a blown motor (2.0) ,my buddy had a 78 fairmont with a good 2.3 in it,so i pulled that and put it in the ranger.

so here are the spec on the truck now.
all stock 78 2.3 2bbl with all the emissions stuff removed
stock ranger 4 speed that came with the truck (the truck was org. a 2.0)

o.k. to my ?'s...

does anyone have a diagram of all the ports and also adjustment screws on the stock 5200 2bbl.

what is base timing with the vac. advance not hooked up. also the timing cover on the 78 only has 1 pointer on it is that tdc, if it is and i want to advance it a little is there a good way to measure that with out havin any timing marks.

will the 83 2.0 timing cover fit the 78 2.3, i noticed that had timing marks on it, if so are they the same marks as a 2.3 would have.

my main ?'s for now are...
were do i hook up the vacuum advance to, intake or carb, if carb what port.
i want to hook up a tach and set base idel speed, i asuume 800 rpm
i want to set the base initial timing.
i want to tune the carb, iirc i hook up a vacuum gauge to the carb and get the highest vacuum, but i cant remember what port to hook that too also, and if that is the correct way.

i have not messed with carbs much, mostly fuel injected stuff.

Offline 78_starsky

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2012, 09:43:47 AM »
hi ryan,  i can't help you with the 2.3 questions, however just wanted to give you a couple good ranger sites incase you don't get answers that help fully. i know the guys in pinto site are good with 2.3's and it never hurts for more information.

cheers

www.therangers tation.com

and

http://www.fordrangerforum.com/

Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2012, 01:06:06 PM »
I think i can help with a couple questions, i'm new to the 2.3 since i bought my pinto last spring but have done alot of reading since then.

Vacuum advance was originally hooked up to ported vacuum on the carb (port that receives vacuum from above the throttle plate). There has been some debate as to whether it should be moved to manifold vacuum(intake) but I believe the general consensus is that it only benefits engines with large cams. I recommend the stock location for if your engine is mostly stock.

My engine hasn't been been in my car for awhile(I'm in the middle of the build right now) and i didn't have a tach but I think 800 is about right.  I was just setting idle as low as i could without having hard starts or stumbles.

The sticker on my 78 2.3's valve cover recommends initial timing of 6* BTDC + or - 2*. I remember reading on this site that people set it closer to 10* for a little more power but if you hear any pinging with that much timing you will want to retard it a little.

When using a vacuum gauge to tune a carb, the gauge should be attached to manifold vacuum.

I don't have alot of experience because i discovered my engine to have severe camshaft issues that were messing up my tuning so most of this information is from reading on this site.  sorry if i made any mistakes, hope the info helps.
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline ryan1

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2012, 03:37:58 PM »

Vacuum advance was originally hooked up to ported vacuum on the carb (port that receives vacuum from above the throttle plate). There has been some debate as to whether it should be moved to manifold vacuum(intake) but I believe the general consensus is that it only benefits engines with large cams. I recommend the stock location for if your engine is mostly stock.



what port is that on the motorcraft 5200 2bbl?

Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2012, 05:32:19 PM »
I don't personally have that carb because the previous owner swapped it for a 350cfm holley but i found this picture on google

The vacuum advance port apears to be to the right of the EGR port
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline ryan1

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2012, 05:50:39 PM »
clydesdale80 were did you find that pic?

i got the truck ideling at 1000 to 1100 rpm, 20 inch vacuum, and advanced it roughly 6-8 degres inititial timing, the timing i just moved it about a 1/2 up from the pointer (on the 78 timing cover there is only a pointer and no marks.

the truck free revs great sounds healthy comes down to idel nice,ect,ect, but when put under load/driving at 2000 to 2500 ish rpms it hesitates and stumbles, again only under load.


Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2012, 06:01:48 PM »
i googled motorcraft 5200 carb and it was in the second row of images. the pointer is where you want the mark on the camshaft to be at TDC, the engine will still run if its a tooth off either direction but it definitely will run best when its on that mark.
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline ryan1

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2012, 01:08:21 AM »
i googled motorcraft 5200 carb and it was in the second row of images. the pointer is where you want the mark on the camshaft to be at TDC, the engine will still run if its a tooth off either direction but it definitely will run best when its on that mark.
Thanks, yeah I advance the timing a little I would say to about 10 btdc
Any ideas on the stumbling problem under load

Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2012, 08:34:04 AM »
How clean looking is the carb? Sometimes they just need gone through to get things to work right, otherwise I'm not sure. I was in the middle of attempting to tune mine when I discovered that both the exhaust and intake cam lobes for cylinder #4 were basically gone. I guess you could try running a quarter turn leaner than what u tuned it to and then a quarter turn richer and see if the stumble goes away.
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline ryan1

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2012, 12:15:49 PM »
the carb was clean, i sprayed out all the passages with carb cleaner also, prior to installing it.
i dont really know alot about carbs,but from the researching i have been doing it sounds like maybe the float level could be wrong or the acc. pump not working, anyone have a thought on that.

Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2012, 07:40:42 PM »
you can check the float level, it'd run rich if too high and lean if too low, there should should be a screw you remove from a hole on the fuel bowl to check the level. once again i dont have experience with this specific carb but if its like a holley then you want the fuel to be right at the bottom of that hole. from your description of it stumbling under load, I wouldn't think it would be the accelerator pump because that only comes into play when you are in the process of opening the throttle(stepping on it).  I could be wrong if you mean its stumbling under the load of accelerating.
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2012, 08:06:55 PM »
 

i got the truck ideling at 1000 to 1100 rpm, 20 inch vacuum, and advanced it roughly 6-8 degres inititial timing, the timing i just moved it about a 1/2 up from the pointer (on the 78 timing cover there is only a pointer and no marks

I was rereading your earlier posts and I am kinda wondering if there is something wrong with your cam timing.  It shouldn't be possible to change the timing by any increment smaller than one tooth.  Sometimes the pointers on the belt cover can get bent a little and throw people of.  a more accurate way to set the timing is to use a string or a straight-edge to make a line between the center of the cam gear and the distributor gear. If you line the mark on the cam gear up with that line while the engine is at exactly tdc(marked on crank pulley and a slot in the block) the engine should be timed properly.  When i got my car the timing belt was off one notch because there was no timing cover and the previous owner guessed.  the car would rev fine just sitting in the driveway but would stumble and stall if u asked much of it while driving. I also had cam with flat lobes but it did help a lot having the cam timing just right.  Just a thought i decided might be worth mentioning.
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2012, 08:19:10 PM »
just some info on the 2.0 ranger motor..... it is a lima just like the 2.3..... it has a smaller bore but everything is the same as our pinto motors....it uses a round port head with very small chambers, the runners are higher than a standard oval or dport.... the later ranger(see early carb 2.3engine) has a better round port head with larger chambers and is kinda sought after for porting and getting nice gains in flow....not easy to find but worth having..
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Offline ryan1

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2012, 11:08:47 AM »
yes the stumbling is when accelerating.

as far as the timing goes, i did not check the timing at the timing belt at all, i just turned the dizzy to advance base/initial timing to a 1/2 inch ahead of the stock mark on the crank.

what i did for timing is,,, i marked my stock crank pulley a 1/2 inch lower than the stock notch/mark on the crank and then removed the vac. advance line from the dizzy and put my timing light on and used my homemade line to line up with the pointer on the 78 timing cover, i figured a 1/2 inch is about 10 atdc, i figured that mark cause on my 2.0 timing cover from tdc to atdc it was 5/8..

Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2012, 11:54:58 AM »
you want before top dead center not after....so you want to advance it toward the 12 oclock position..... after woud be towards the 3 oclock positon...... retarding the timing will kill drivability and power.....
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Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2012, 01:19:15 PM »
Ya if you have the ignition timing retarded that much it will definitely kill power. I have two '78 2.3 engines and both have degree numbers engraved on the farthest back edge of the crank pulley and a slot in the block to line things up with. They are usually dirty and hard to see but look for these marks and it will make your timing much more accurate.
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline ryan1

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2012, 02:52:03 PM »
i pressure washed the motor,wire wheeled some rust parts and painted the motor and accessories before installing it in the ranger, i did not see any marks
i made the mark lower then the original mark on the crank pulley and used my new mark, its advanced not retarded.

Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2012, 04:56:29 PM »
Just to make sure, this is what the marks look like sorry the engine isn't all together.
these are the marks on the back side of the crank pulley that you should be looking at while using your timing light.




this notch just above the crankshaft is the pointer for the crank pulley, when this lines up with the TC on the pulley the engine is at Top Dead Center.




Also if you want to check your cam timing this is a picture to clarify what i said earlier about lining up the mark with a line between the centers of the two gears.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=ford+2.3+timing+pulley&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1092&bih=507&tbm=isch&tbnid=JxQp9T5DZNhVeM:&imgrefurl=http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2-3l-tech/233176-1993-mustang-4-cylinder-na-timing-troubles.html&docid=yGfiUcD-MGrboM&imgurl=http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/2-3l-tech/97936d1273109152-1993-mustang-4-cylinder-na-timing-troubles-picture_01.jpg&w=1024&h=768&ei=BCagUMXBFcf_ygGO04EY&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=4&vpy=114&dur=748&hovh=195&hovw=260&tx=107&ty=122&sig=114359488494269302794&page=2&tbnh=132&tbnw=160&start=12&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:18,s:0,i:125


If your engine doesn't have these marks it will be hard to set the timing accurately, hope this helps.
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline ryan1

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2012, 09:55:27 PM »
thanks, my pulley does not have these marks, can u measure the distance for me on yours from tdc to 10 before.

i think im going to have to check cam timing also just to be sure that is correct to.

just for clearification, i went and measured the marks on the timing cover from the 2.0 from tdc to 10 atdc was 1/2 to 5/8 of a inch. so since my 78 timing cover only has a pointer and no marks, what i did was made a mark on my crank pulley a 1/2 inch lower than the stock notch on the pulley, so i use my new mark to line up with the tdc pointer essentially making it 10 btdc.

Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2012, 10:49:51 AM »
Ok, I understand what u did now. I would measure the distance to 10 BTDC but I was only home for the weekend.
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2012, 10:57:39 AM »
Couldn't you use a protractor to measure 10 degrees on the pulley?
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2012, 11:10:52 AM »
Couldn't you use a protractor to measure 10 degrees on the pulley?

If the protractor is the same diameter or a little smaller you could use a ruler across the center of the bolt to the 10 degree mark & paint a line. 
 
I have a dial back timing light that I set to my desired advance then you just line up the TDC marks & you're dead on.
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Offline ryan1

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2013, 04:17:49 PM »
bring back a old post,i brought the truck out again after a long winter.
does anyone know the jet,ect sizes in a 78 or 79 model 5200?
i rebuild the carb and the truck runs better, but still dont seem 100 correct.

Offline ryan1

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2014, 10:31:46 PM »
do all 2.3 timing belt covers and crank pulleys fit all 2.3's
mine is a 78 2.3, was thinking of putting a 86 cover and crank pulley on mine?

Offline amc49

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2014, 11:30:29 PM »
Obviously serpentine pulleys are not the same.......... .........and timing belt? Some are round tooth and some are square, you have to match them to sprockets.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2014, 12:00:31 PM »
In 41 years I have NEVER seen a 2.3L motor with out a indexed lower pulley. I have owned 14 of the 2.3L Pintos. Your just not looking hard enough. You have to remove the pulley and clean 30 years of crud off. The index numbers are VERY hard to see because they are only about .012 deep. After you find them take a yellow tire marker and  rub over the numbers till they are full of the yellow marker. Wipe of the excess yellow, and spray over the numbers with spray can clear paint. Job done.
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Offline ryan1

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2014, 12:34:39 AM »
In 41 years I have NEVER seen a 2.3L motor with out a indexed lower pulley. I have owned 14 of the 2.3L Pintos. Your just not looking hard enough. You have to remove the pulley and clean 30 years of crud off. The index numbers are VERY hard to see because they are only about .012 deep. After you find them take a yellow tire marker and  rub over the numbers till they are full of the yellow marker. Wipe of the excess yellow, and spray over the numbers with spray can clear paint. Job done.
i took the serpentine set-up off the 2.0 (dont know if was stock or not) and put that on the 78 2.3, so that crank pulley only has a line on it and the 78 timing cover only has a pointer on it.

Offline amc49

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Re: i have a few ?'s pertaining to a 78 2.3 motor
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2014, 01:29:43 PM »
You need to verify the one mark IS TDC, it may well be a base timing mark for an earlier PCM controlled engine and not be TDC........... if the engine still used a distributor and not crank/cam sensors alone. Common one mark and it was NOT TDC on my Tempos of the time..........