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Offline YAYPINTOS

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head bolts
« on: April 10, 2014, 07:30:12 PM »
is it neccisary to get new head bolts after removing the old ones? :o

Offline Pintopowers

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2014, 07:34:24 PM »
No if the heads are cast iron.. Aluminum ones i am not sure of..

SR

Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 08:07:31 PM »
if you have 12 point head bolts they are reusable, the 6 point are one time use.
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Offline amc49

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 08:59:32 PM »
Look at your final torque spec, if it ends in an ANGLE (90 degrees, 120 degrees, etc.) rather than ft.lbs., it is a TTY (torque to yield) bolt and intended to only be used one time. They deform permanently to get that angle and why the angle is necessary, the bolt quits increasing in torque since it has begun to pull in half. TTY bolts are commonly used on parts that swell a whole lot more when hot, like aluminum heads or blocks. The prestretching allows the bolt to stretch more in use but they pretty much die doing it. Why you don't re-use them, You're just begging to blow gaskets doing so, they will not pull up again as tight as before.

I flat hate them and having to buy new bolts but a necessary evil, they DO work very well. Unpop the torque on them and you'll see what I mean. They take a solid set and then knocking them loose will pop the wrench in your hands hard enough to sting like hell.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 10:20:55 PM »
German 2.0 & 12 point 2.3 are reusable & are actually preferred over some Chinese parts store replacements. If you need a set search Ebay for original Ford ones. There are plenty on there & they are reasonably priced.
 
I have TTY in my 95 Neon & had to buy new ones to do my head gasket. They are single use & get tossed anytime they are loosened.
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Offline Rob3865

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2014, 01:10:34 AM »
If they are old, I get new ones. It's cheap insurance. Whether they're torque to yield or not, they stretch. I especially dislike the head bolts in all of the newer V8s from about 1990 forward. While there is no standard to replace them, they look cheap and feel light. I cannot stand them. I will be using new ARP head bolts on my 302.

Offline amc49

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2014, 03:23:59 AM »
They ARE lighter, they are smaller in diameter to be able to stretch. The Focus ones are like 3/8 (probably 10 mm.) and look puny.

Early on Ford was advocating reusing TTY up to twice if you measured them for the degree of stretch, 'beyond this point do not reuse' and gave a spec number; then the marketing guys won out by saying 'why are you not selling the parts??? And get rid of the repair variable!'

I reuse normal bolts but pay careful attention to torque pullup, if they feel weak they get tossed. Other than that I have no trouble using 40 year old bolts, depending on how many times they've been used. The block threads will be as weak as the bolts, really more since the block iron not as hard.

Using TTY on everything just makes full engine rebuild that much more disheartening, you gotta spend all that money now for simple bolts. Now they use them on even same/similar metals like main caps to block, and connecting rods, bust a rod loose simply to check bearings and you're looking at new bolts, and since new rod bolts really require remachining the big end to make them right then the whole thing turns into a mess. Obvious someone here is trying to scare you into buying whole new engine or even better, car. The day of the throwaway engine is upon us.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2014, 08:05:27 AM »
If they are old, I get new ones. It's cheap insurance. Whether they're torque to yield or not, they stretch. I especially dislike the head bolts in all of the newer V8s from about 1990 forward. While there is no standard to replace them, they look cheap and feel light. I cannot stand them. I will be using new ARP head bolts on my 302.

Check length.
I read the "kit" for B2s have some the wrong length.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2014, 08:13:02 AM »
Any time I replace bolts I use ARP.
Art
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Offline Reeves1

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2014, 09:23:07 AM »
Any time I replace bolts I use ARP.

Make sure you get the right grades for the job.

For example, the cheaper 8740 rod bolts were put in my engine from the CA build. Known to fail.
It is now getting the better up-graded bolts (2000 ?).
The old original main cap bolts were used in the CA build.
They are being replaced with studs.
etc....

Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2014, 10:26:20 AM »
the bad thing about arp studs and the 2.3 is the arp studs don't extend far enough into the block like the factory bolts do and this causes the deck to pull up and distort the mating surface.... this has been documented  and discussed at length on turboford.... several of the guys making 500 hp + have gone back to 12 point factory bolts because they don't have this issue and have a better clamping force than the arp studs..... arp was contacted about this issue but they choose not to do anything about this ....I guess they are ok with the issue as long as people are still buying the product they currently offer.
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73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 11:30:11 AM »
the bad thing about arp studs and the 2.3 is the arp studs don't extend far enough into the block like the factory bolts do and this causes the deck to pull up and distort the mating surface.... this has been documented  and discussed at length on turboford.... several of the guys making 500 hp + have gone back to 12 point factory bolts because they don't have this issue and have a better clamping force than the arp studs..... arp was contacted about this issue but they choose not to do anything about this ....I guess they are ok with the issue as long as people are still buying the product they currently offer.
Thanks for the heads up, good to know..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 11:31:34 AM »
Make sure you get the right grades for the job.

For example, the cheaper 8740 rod bolts were put in my engine from the CA build. Known to fail.
It is now getting the better up-graded bolts (2000 ?).
The old original main cap bolts were used in the CA build.
They are being replaced with studs.
etc....
ALWAYS do.

 I use L19 rod bolts.. ;)
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline Rob3865

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 01:45:59 PM »
Great thread! Thanks for all the info yall........an d I've never seen one, but I know they are out there, but ya got any video of one of them 500 HP 2.3s? I'd love to hear one. That's gotta sound shagnasty. lol

Offline Reeves1

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2014, 02:48:01 PM »
Guy in Calgary has one turning  9.79@137
Made me wonder why I'd go with a million lb B2 engine !

http://www.performance-shop.com/showthread.php?t=28289
6 pages of info

Offline Rob3865

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2014, 04:30:59 PM »
Man that thing is crazy. I bet it puts a lot of V8 cars on the trailer too.

Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: head bolts
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2014, 05:32:59 PM »
 this one,,,,, 8.23 at 160 with only 21-22 lbs of boost..... test run,, he usually runs 40 lbs of boost or better..... hes shooting for 7s....and he let out at the 1000 foot mark...

75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,