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Offline JonzWagon

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Have starter questions
« on: February 28, 2014, 09:49:26 PM »
Hi everyone, I need some advice. Starter problem (I think) with my '80 wagon. Was having trouble getting my car to start this winter. Replaced the battery...stil l would not start. The starter would spin but engine would not fire. So I replaced Starter Solenoid. Now it starts and runs fine.......... BUT,  it still won't start until I try 3 or 4 times, then fires fine. Looks like the starter is the problem after all. I know you have to drop the steering to get to it. My question is......does anyone make hi-performance starters that will work or do I have to settle with a "rebuilt" one from the local parts store and maybe replace it again next year.  Any advice or suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much in advance. John :)

Offline amc49

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2014, 01:32:12 AM »
Before you get GOOD help you'd better describe things better.

'The starter would spin but engine would not fire. So I replaced Starter Solenoid.'

Nothing personal at all but it's simply impossible, if solenoid were bad the starter will not spin. That description destroys the rest of your post since now we have no idea of how reliable what you say is.

If the starter spins and the engine too there is NOTHING wrong with it. If the starter spins motor but motor will not fire up the motor has a problem not the starter, go from there.

Here's where most trip up in a non start problem. The car may do absolutely NOTHING at all. It may make rapid clicking noise only and nothing else happens. It may spin starter but ENGINE does not spin. Starter can spin engine and the car simply not start. Every one of those situations can be separate issues with different cures.

All this is assuming direct drive old school starter like came on the car, not a PMGR starter which has somewhat different issues.


Offline arkyt

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 01:43:58 AM »
If the starter is turning the engine over, it ain't the starter!
 
The starter would not spin if the solenoid was bad.  Sounds like you need to check all the connections from the battery to the starter, the key and the ground - every one. Clean them all, check for bad wire to connector connection.  Then check all the ignitin circuit.
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Offline amc49

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 02:13:15 AM »
Having said what I did there is actually a mechanism I worked out where the starter COULD spin with a bad solenoid but it would be so rare that I've never seen it happen and would also rely on a couple other things to happen as well. Car could be in below horrible tune and then the starter bypass fails inside solenoid, starter still cranks but car does not fire off from weak spark at cranking time. Solenoid would then be bad. Rare though.

Almost ANYTHING can happen on a car including some pretty fantastic things; you learn to play the numbers to get quickest fixes.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 07:16:44 AM »
Well, with the information given(which isn't much)my question is, when the starter spins does the motor turn over?? "it still won't start until I try 3 or 4 times"
 There isn't anything wrong with the solenoid or the starter because the starter spins so that means the solenoid has to work and the starter is working if it spins, I'm laying odds that it's the starter drive going out, usually you can hit it a few times and it'll grab until it finally craps out completely.. Could be wrong though..
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Offline JonzWagon

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 09:09:27 AM »
Hi everyone...... my apologies for not describing the problem correctly. I think Art hit it right about the starter drive going out. The symptoms he describes are right on. However I will go over the entire ignition system and check everything closely.  Thanks for all the replies,  they were appreciated.   John :)

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2014, 10:22:11 AM »
Had same issue check your ground connections!!'n mine on the motor was loose!!!
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Offline amc49

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2014, 10:34:47 PM »
So lost, oh so lost.......... .............. ......

The car not starting till it's been tried 3 or 4 times can be 10 other things, the actual description was not given by Art, which is-- you try to start, starter seems to work but spins up extremely high like it's broken. If you don't get that higher than normal sounding spinning free you have NOT found the problem.

Not starting until 3-4 times could be battery, cables, ignition switch, solenoid, I'm getting tired, there are more. 3-4 times is worthless as info other than as part of a more detailed description, I watched this stuff all day long at the parts store. And parts mis-bought by the thousands of dollars. Incidentally, they will want you to purchase entire starter, a stepper can look online to find bendix only for maybe $10-$15 dollars. I haven't bought a starter in like 35 years, I simply pull them down and rebuild them when they have to come out for this or that. Generally not even needing any new parts.

You haven't even verified whether or not engine turns in all or part of the situations yet.

As said, it could be as simple as a bad ground.

Offline dianne

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 11:14:18 PM »
So lost, oh so lost.......... .............. ......

The car not starting till it's been tried 3 or 4 times can be 10 other things, the actual description was not given by Art, which is-- you try to start, starter seems to work but spins up extremely high like it's broken. If you don't get that higher than normal sounding spinning free you have NOT found the problem.

Not starting until 3-4 times could be battery, cables, ignition switch, solenoid, I'm getting tired, there are more. 3-4 times is worthless as info other than as part of a more detailed description, I watched this stuff all day long at the parts store. And parts mis-bought by the thousands of dollars. Incidentally, they will want you to purchase entire starter, a stepper can look online to find bendix only for maybe $10-$15 dollars. I haven't bought a starter in like 35 years, I simply pull them down and rebuild them when they have to come out for this or that. Generally not even needing any new parts.

You haven't even verified whether or not engine turns in all or part of the situations yet.

As said, it could be as simple as a bad ground.

  • For awhile the car starts fine but doesn't when it's damp or in the evenings. That means that I start fine in the morning but have issues starting. I put something like heat in the gas tank because the car sat for like 3 months. I didn't know if it was the battery or something else. I went to Interstate and the guy tested the batter but not the alternator but did the regulator. I swapped that out and with the heat stuff it starts great
  • Today we had rain and I went out for a bit and came back. Went out again food shopping and it was raining and damp and the car wouldn't start again. So I ended up going in and someone came out with one of those battery starting things. It started. On a side note, I actually checked to see if the cap on the distributor was bad and it wasn't.
  • I was thinking of changing the battery out. I came with the car and it's a junkyard battery. Who knows, the guy at Interstate said it was good. Regular was sending out 16.5 or something so now it's new and changed

Does that sound like the resolution to you?
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Offline amc49

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 01:01:00 AM »
You need to look at battery and first determine CCA on it and what's OEM in the car if not original motor then what comes with that motor. Bigger number is better. If the battery has lost the CCA number they commonly use like 500 but that could pass a battery that is not correct for the car. I commonly look up in the app manual when no number is present or it is suspect, be advised most counter people will not lift a finger to do that. The battery life if 3 year 4 year 7 year ,etc, is a giveaway there too if battery has that still.

I always test battery AND alt, the tool used in the same and the battery could show as good if alt just spit guts out in the last five minutes. Rare but possible. Alt and regulator are inseparable, the alt could easily be bad and now going to toast new regulator with it, happens all the time. A dying diode or more pushes volts/amps up on regulator which is trying to make up for it, regulator then fries as well.

Get battery tested again, sometimes they pass and second time they don't especially if it's gone a bit downhill.

If battery on 4th year you aren't losing much cash changing anyway unless you have warranty paperwork, sounds like no here. In what I saw, battery life is the luck of the draw, I had a Walmart 3 year lowest of the low battery last for 11 years, you cannot run numbers any further really than at 4 years they are getting old, many, MANY fail around there. Maybe 60%-70% If you leave both cables on battery all the time when they sit then whack another year off that. 3 years? Maybe 50% OF that number I just gave, sliding ramp there, the numbers do not equal 100%. Very few make the 7 or 8 years mentioned, I'd say less than 10% That is modded by fact that everyone has second car now to not lose the all important job, if it sits long periods you are flat killing battery if not disconnecting at least one cable or trickle charging. I did it and watched battery life on the sitters go up like 50%. Cars that sit especially if a PCM on them can commonly toast battery in under 3 years, I saw it hundreds of times. Ask if they disconnect and the answer always no. One of the reasons why batteries took a whopping like 30%-40% jump several years back, they will tell you it was EPA lead disposal issues but actually it was all the goofy people who think you can leave a brand new battery in a collector car for 6 months and 'it should crank up because battery is brand new'. I watched hundreds of batteries warranty at 2 year or even 1, they just get all in your face about it and 'ka-ching!' let the cost go up.

Well, now I see it looks like alt WAS checked, the reg number 16.5 is it......good deal. That points more to battery as the problem as well. You need to check alt/reg again, it should drop to no more than 15. If old school alt 13.5 maybe as the low number. Those don't charge as much as they do now. Uh, anyone check water in battery? At 16.5 volts overcharging it would have been boiling off. Could now have a dry cell.......... .......

I had people who come in and refuse to let you look up battery for them, rather trying to find the group used and then pick the lowest CCA they could find because it was cheaper and 'I have no money'. It got to be a huge problem, the new battery will actually crank a bit more than that but they all settle in in like a couple of months to drop that cranking edge then they come back trying to warranty for a new one claiming its gone bad. It then passes the load test based on the CCA and they go to critical mass screaming and claiming that some other employee there sold them it as the 'correct' battery. We issued enough free upgrades to bigger battery they didn't pay for I lobbied the district manager to have us look up every battery sold and to refuse any one they simply threw up on the counter. That stopped most of the loss but they sure got mad about it. So don't buy cheap battery you have fooled yourself 80% of the time.

Don't discount cable interface, the cables corrode inside sheath to go bad gradually. You have to ohm them out with them separated on both ends. If bolt on ends the two bolt connecter used can corrode cable on the bottom to affect things too. As well as one inch away terminal to post. All must be 5 ohm or less resistance. I use no corrosion protectors at all, rather like wheel bearing grease to coat the interface, i get it underneath too. Messy? Wipe it off. I've seen weird atmospherics and maybe screwy terminal lead to make an uncoated terminal corrode to where you cannot see it at all but car does not start after sitting 24 hours with new battery in it. Just weird.  Use grease and problem is gone forever. There are certain atmospheric conditions that mess up bare lead connections really quick depending I think on the alloy mix used there.

Check battery itself while just sitting, you have a voltmeter right? Any battery at 12.3 volt or less simply sitting is close to, if not exhibiting a problem. New battery at proper room temp is 12.86 volts, they work well until around 12.3 (after charging and one hour wait to discharge the surface charge all alts put in there), where some show trouble where some don't. I've seen some screwy setups like certain Hondas crank reliably at as low as 11.8 but not the norm. 12.3 is a number to note if you don't like to walk. I used it on hundreds of cars and the number holds up well.

The starter can get to where it draws too much amp too even though it seems to work right, that can make the problem too. That test done with the same tester used on battery as well if you hit the big chains. My harddrive getting cloudy, thinking more than 150 amp is bad IIRC.

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2014, 03:47:33 PM »
I don't have a 2.3, but from my experience...

I dealt with this. Twice (2 starters in...). The first time cost me a day's wages. The second, I figured out a pattern...

There are four places that a four cylinder comes to rest when you shut it off. In my case, one of these positions corresponded to a patch on the flexplate that had horribly ground teeth. The starter would engage, but didn't really have anything to engage with, so it just screeched. Horribly. Embarrassingly . Starter number 2, I figured out where it was (I could see the timing marks on the driver's side top side of the pulley), so I would manually roll the motor to just past that spot. Started every time.

Now on starter 3. Have a flexplate to swap in.

Again, not sure on the 2.3s, but I can attest that on a 2.0 (with new motor mounts) that you do not have to unbolt anything but the starter to remove the starter. Just requires some creative 'threading' of the starter. It will come out, though. I've done it 4 times (Twice in a 48 hour span due to an inept O'Reilly employee!!!).

Definitely replace all your grounds. Ground is probably the most important electrical connection, especially on a DC system. :)

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2014, 04:43:18 PM »
2.3 & 2.0 bellhousing & flywheel (double drilled after market) will inter change, so why will not the starters?  2.3 starter should fit a 2.0. Right???? And if you want a geared starter get a 2.5 Ranger starter.
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2014, 05:12:42 PM »
2.3 & 2.0 bellhousing & flywheel (double drilled after market) will inter change, so why will not the starters?  2.3 starter should fit a 2.0. Right? ??? And if you want a geared starter get a 2.5 Ranger starter.

At a glance the German 2.0 starter looks identical to the 2.3 version. Ranger starters fit but the solenoid is on it so a little wiring needs changed to run it. Best part is it's half the size & weight & it's a high torque version.
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2014, 07:16:41 PM »

At a glance the German 2.0 starter looks identical to the 2.3 version. Ranger starters fit but the solenoid is on it so a little wiring needs changed to run it. Best part is it's half the size & weight & it's a high torque version.

They look identical. But the 2.0 has 9 teeth (automatic), 2.3 has 10 (standard). They will bolt up, if you look at housing only. Guess if someone before you just grabs a cheap starter from the junk yard, it'll engage and mount just fine. :)

All the UK starters (manual, Burton won't sell to the auto fans) have 10 teeth. Just saying.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2014, 08:39:57 PM »
They look identical. But the 2.0 has 9 teeth (automatic), 2.3 has 10 (standard). They will bolt up, if you look at housing only. Guess if someone before you just grabs a cheap starter from the junk yard, it'll engage and mount just fine. :)

All the UK starters (manual, Burton won't sell to the auto fans) have 10 teeth. Just saying.

Only the 2.0 auto takes 9 tooth? So the 10 tooth works on everything else 2.0 or 2.3?
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2014, 10:23:39 PM »
WHO WILL BE THE FIRST? To try a Ranger starter on a 2.0.  Only time will tell.
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Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2014, 02:05:16 AM »
I don't have a 2.3, but from my experience...

I dealt with this. Twice (2 starters in...). The first time cost me a day's wages. The second, I figured out a pattern...

There are four places that a four cylinder comes to rest when you shut it off. In my case, one of these positions corresponded to a patch on the flexplate that had horribly ground teeth. The starter would engage, but didn't really have anything to engage with, so it just screeched. Horribly. Embarrassingly . Starter number 2, I figured out where it was (I could see the timing marks on the driver's side top side of the pulley), so I would manually roll the motor to just past that spot. Started every time.

Now on starter 3. Have a flexplate to swap in.

Again, not sure on the 2.3s, but I can attest that on a 2.0 (with new motor mounts) that you do not have to unbolt anything but the starter to remove the starter. Just requires some creative 'threading' of the starter. It will come out, though. I've done it 4 times (Twice in a 48 hour span due to an inept O'Reilly employee!!!).

Definitely replace all your grounds. Ground is probably the most important electrical connection, especially on a DC system. :)

 I hate to pick nits, but maybe you just meant that grounds are usually more suspect. In an electrical circuit, both sides of connections are just as important (circuit-circle). Resistance in either end of a circuit connection will create voltage drop across its resistance just the same.

 And I had a car just like that once had to turn the motor if it was on a bad spot or else I got the screech.

 This person may want to get a post hole cleaner and make sure all the connections are clean and tight. If the batery was charged but it started with a jump starter it could be because the battery connectors werent making good contact. You can check that by turning on the headlights hit the ignition switch see if they dim. If they dim and you have good voltage at the battery itself while your cranking, the connections are bad somewhere along either cable.

Offline amc49

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 12:36:49 AM »
That last test as given is worthless, almost every car on the planet will dim lights somewhat when a starter is engaged. In more or less amounts but it WILL dim, even with a healthy battery and clean cable terminals. Starters pull that much voltage. Many circuits are wired to cut out the lights if they are on and starter gets engaged. It allows more power to starter.

Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2014, 04:59:38 PM »
That last test as given is worthless, almost every car on the planet will dim lights somewhat when a starter is engaged. In more or less amounts but it WILL dim, even with a healthy battery and clean cable terminals. Starters pull that much voltage. Many circuits are wired to cut out the lights if they are on and starter gets engaged. It allows more power to starter.

 It is not worthless or useless, but let me rephrase it in case someone may not understand the purpose of it.

 If the headlights  dim a LOT when cranking, but you have 12 volts still AT THE BATTERY while cranking, you are losing the voltage due to poor conductivity in the cables or ends.

 This simple test has led me in the correct direction many times over my years of owning cars.

 Proper use of a volt meter, dmm or analog, can pinpoint a bad contact exactly with a few simple tests.

 Newer cars may have function to take away power from trhe headlights etc during starting but we were talking about a Pinto.

Offline amc49

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2014, 03:02:59 AM »
'If the headlights  dim a LOT when cranking, but you have 12 volts still AT THE BATTERY while cranking.....'

An oxymoron and impossible.

You will NEVER have full 12 volts while cranking with a standard car size battery, maybe if you used three of them in parallel. The starter has a certain draw there and that draw is what you use to clearly define amps used. On top of that with full twelve volts there will be NO dimming at all. Batteries generally drop at starting to varying degrees of eleven volts and lower depending on connection and battery condition. The drop is intentional, it is normal and why you rate battery by CCA. And once you start splitting different degrees of dimness of lights, well, I'm not wading into that morass. I have tripped up many many people who thought the same thing......... .......nothing personal of course.

FYI, I do all my own electrical repair including starter and alt repair even on computer controlled stuff. I commonly repair $200 alts for, well, the last one cost me around thirty cents for solder, been running now for a good couple years. Typically I may spend $25 getting one back up and running, these Ford early alts and starters are tinkertoys. The starters I may spend nothing getting one a new lease on life for years more. I do all my OBD II EEC-IV, EEC-V diag and repair as well. I can wire whole cars blindfolded, used to do race cars with nothing but boxes of wire. I diagnosed hundreds of cars at the parts store where I was the go to guy with charging/starting issues. Lots of funny ideas out there and the vast majority are so incorrect, like the dropping battery out of the loop to determine if alt is working, one of the fastest ways to tear up a charging system there is. That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard yet so many are willing to argue about it until you tear that argument to shreds. I did it at the drop of a hat and sold plenty of alts and other blown electrical after some person did it. Yet they would still argue that didn't do it, incredible.

Uh, the circuits I refer to that drop out headlights were commonly used in the '60s........... ....on common low life tiddler bikes. BEFORE Pintos........ ......even having the headlights on is a mistake when you are having starting troubles, you are offloading part of the available starting current to be unavailable to the starter, why on earth would you do that?

Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2014, 01:34:07 PM »
 Should I have said above 11.5 and made it easier for you?

 I had my current Pinto for 28 years so I know there are no such circuits standard in Pintos. I had a few before this one and another during that time. I also had a 79 z28 that occassionaly had issues with the battery cable ends.

 As far as electronics go, and electrical, I was raised around electronics all my life, designing and building analog and digital circuits before I left grade school. My father worked at Mc Donnell Douglas operating the cryogenic testing equipment and was in charge of the department that tested nearly every electronic component that went into the Gemini mission. I attended college for Electronic Engineering Technology in the early 80`s.

 I still design and build analog and digital circuits, produce my own printed circuit boards, and have several lab quality pieces of electronic equpiment some I designed and built.

 This person stated that the battery was charged but the car started with a jump starter. There is the possibilty (especially with some vaguenes as to what he mean at times) that there was poor contact on the battery clamps, losing voltage through the resistance, and the jump starter connected to outside of the battery clamps or wherever, supplied power more directly that didnt become restricted by the poor conductivity of the cable ends. It was worth mentioning.

 In my old Camaro I could turn  the key the headlights dimmed quite noticeably and the starter didnt crank (I could see  that from the drivers seat). That told me either the battery was super weak or there was a lot of resistance in the battery cables. Measuring at the battery posts at that time that the lights went dim showed the presence of voltage sufficient enough to suggest poor contact, conductivity high resistance.

 Were both here trying  to help offer advice share our experience and knowledge. I appreciate the time and effort you put into doing that here, but I would appreciate if you get off my back.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2014, 06:10:23 PM »
Very good post tonij1960. You seem to know more about sparkeee things than the average Pinto gear head. I've been racing / driving / building Pintos since 1972 and I still don't know it all. Been afraid of electricity since I got shocked bad at the age of 10.  Now I get the wife to change light bulbs.  Like your Dad, I to, worked for McDonnell Douglas, but in Tulsa when real airplanes had those things with blades that went round and round. Please keep up the good posting on this web site that mean's so much to group of gear heads.
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Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2014, 06:19:43 PM »
 Thank you Dick :) like I said I have had my pinto that I have now for 28 years, it wasnt my first so you know I love Pintos.

 Electronics and electricity Im not intimidated by at all, some things on cars though :(

 But I signed up here nearly 6 years ago Im not going anywhere now unless I really tick off someone important.

 And by the way, he worked for Curtis Wright before that, if he was still around to tell tales ...

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2014, 07:10:42 PM »
Way, way, way more than me that's for sure, LOL, small world here I also worked for McDonnell Douglas(Long Beach)unfortunately it went down way too soon.. :( :( :(
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Offline amc49

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2014, 11:00:31 PM »
Yes, yes, my Dad was a flight engineer/inspection crewchief that signed off 'flight ready' on all LTV A-7 Corsair IIs just before they went up on their first flight after construction. He worked on Saturn 1B (smaller than the 5) moon rocket before that.His brother my uncle was a chief test pilot for Bell Helicopter and took US presidents up for flights around the plant. There were aircraft parts and avionics all over the house for years, Dad built his own airplanes and I was helping at 6 years old. Big deal. My younger brother currently runs the Exelon Energy power generating plant here local at Mountain Creek. Again so what? Electrical repair, computer diagnostic and networking? Yep, BTDT. Just fixed a found-by-dumpster $300 LCD 22" monitor last month, it now works fine. Bad caps in it, yanked them and changed 'em. Built many PCs back when you had to use dos to install parts. Now it's simple, just plug parts together, they do it automatically. PCBS, anybody can make them with kits out there now. BTDT too. Made my own fuel/air ratio gauge.  No school, all self taught. The newspaper printing presses up to 480V 3 phase, yeah. I worked on lots of it. I don't fear it but give it the respect it deserves. I was a firm believer in lockout-tagout, I held the final key until the job was finished and I powered the equipment back up after press repairs.

Car owner saying the battery was charged means nothing, they all say that. In short they are ALL vague as to details, they want you to do it all and generally for free. They do not and cannot generally tell you how old the battery is, how much surface charge was in it and how long it took to bleed down and did it stop bleeding and take a set or keep bleeding down. What was the end voltage when it quit bleeding down. Heck, they can't even tell you how long they charged it and fast or slow. All that figures into whether the battery was really charged at all and if it is a good battery or not worth even turning the key on. They will have no idea of how clean the connections are; you have to lead them around by the hand usually. As an electrical expert you know that. Details, it's all about the details. They generally have a good battery until it drops below 11 flat cranking, that number has always worked well for me. Assuming good connections after meter checking them. Similarly, no battery runs at 12 volts only, a new at proper specific gravity and room temp will run around 12.86 volts, they are good to crank with until they get old enough to get around 12.3 once fully charged and let sit 1 hour to bleed off surface. Below 12.3 they will begin to give trouble in varying amounts depending on car and key-on load. Most though threaten to strand you at under that 12.3 number, they seem to commonly begin to drop under the 11 number cranking around there. I have seen some oddball Honda like Civics crank as low as 10.5 volt cranking but not the norm. The starter itself can cause trouble if the amp requirement has gone out of sight because of dragging armature. In that case the battery and cables may be fine.

If I would have gotten paid say $15/hr. simply for the diagnosis I gave that cured problems at the parts store I would have been much better off. Naturally they did not want to pay for it, eventually I got tired of being bled dry with no compensation and dumped the job. People all want your help but lightning quick to shaft you when it comes to paying for it. I have a natural desire to want to help others but not like that. Why I turned down the family garage when it was offered to me for literally free. I watched Dad get ripped off again and again and not my thing to fight with the customers. I can, I just don't like it. I do far better making say $200 clear and free every time I fix something for my own personal use. Often it's much more than that. I'm getting to where I spread the knowledge far less than I used to.

Any digital knowledge is wasted on these cars, they are 100% analog, everything on them.......... ..........

I apologize for any take on being insulted, not what I'm about at all.

Offline Scott Hamilton

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2018, 11:18:17 PM »
WHO WILL BE THE FIRST? To try a Ranger starter on a 2.0.  Only time will tell.

Old thread I know and I donít know if this is the first- I think others have done it. I wanted to document on our site that the ranger 2.5 starter works great on a 2.0. Decided to do this a couple of weeks ago and had no issues installing and wiring it up. Works great. Had to run an additional wire from the starter solenoid on the ranger starter to the ignition thermal of the pinto solenoid- I found a few others ways to do this but opted for this solution. No issues currently, will post back if anything pops but it works great so far.


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Offline cobra

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2018, 06:10:47 PM »
I just read your post about the Ranger starter wiring. Am I correct to say you used all the existing wire on the Pinto solenoid ?
You just added a wire from the 's' terminal on the solenoid to the 's' connection on the Ranger starter. And of course the '+' of solenoid to the '+' of Ranger starter.

Thank you in advance for you help and information.

Offline Scott Hamilton

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Re: Have starter questions
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2018, 10:37:26 PM »
Yes, that is correct.


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