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Offline From_Jonah

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Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« on: December 14, 2013, 07:17:10 PM »
So I just rebuilt the 2.3 in the wagon. Everything is torqued right, as far as I can tell, the timing is right on the cam, crank and aux. The distributor rotor is in the right place. It's firing. And I can't get the thing to start. I can't even get it to try. It'll turn over and I've poured some gas in the carb but it just won't start.

Anyone have any ideas on something I could be missing or something I'm getting wrong?
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2013, 09:51:44 PM »
Did you pull a plug wire and check to see if you have spark??..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2013, 09:52:05 PM »
Spark plug wiring correct ? Have you tested the duraspark module etc....Are you sure the crank is timed correctly . Have you removed the spark plug number 1 and used a dowel to check to see if the crank is really at top dead center. And finally is the cam on number 1 have a V up or is it down. The V should be up on number one....

Offline rramjet

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2013, 10:00:37 AM »
I think there is a specific way to set the lifters up on these motors. Can't recall what it is cause mine is solid lifter, but think if it isn't done valves will not fully close= no compression.

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2013, 02:11:53 PM »
I do have spark. I had a little confusion and still do about my distributor though. According to my Chiltons manual, I have the 74 model distributor in my car but my car is an 80. I had the plug wires plugged in like a 74, so this morning I changed it to like the 80 model and it's trying to start but only for just a second. And when it does it shoots huge flames out the tailpipe.

1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2013, 02:18:08 PM »
Also, what do you mean about the V on the cam being up?
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2013, 07:11:20 PM »
I tried retarding the timing a bit and now it's backfiring a lot.
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline Clydesdale80

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2013, 07:38:57 PM »
by "V" on the cam he means the V-shape formed by the two cam lobes for cylinder #1.  The V-shape should be right side up when crank is at TDC.  If the V is upside down, your cam timing is 180 degrees off
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2013, 09:02:56 PM »
Something is definitely out of time, I would just start over and make sure everything is right and save a lot of guess work.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline amc49

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2013, 01:27:59 AM »
'74 is a point distributor, and asking for start up issues there. The points have to be set correct gap or no coil dwell and your exact issue. If you have '79 or 80 distributor and the box for it miles ahead using it. All those years distributor position and plug wiring the same.

Offline amc49

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2013, 01:41:27 AM »
'I think there is a specific way to set the lifters up on these motors. Can't recall what it is cause mine is solid lifter, but think if it isn't done valves will not fully close= no compression.

Correct, the check gets done if you ground valves or moved them around. Commonly undone in the old days and gave guys with new motors pure fits.

Used to be a number Ford gave to check valve clearance on 2.3 with hydraulic lifters, collapse lifter and then fit valve in hole with a follower and that clearance then gets measured between base of cam lobe and follower. It guarantees the working assembly is in the middle of the hydraulic travel of lifter for very long life. If valve now ends up being too long after the machine work the lifter runs out of internal adjustment travel while shrinking in height and holds valve open. Needless to say engine not gonna run very well if at all like that. I heard of guys doing that all through the '70s, then they invariably blamed the engine for being a crap motor and where a lot of anti-2.3 BS came from back then. People with no sense.

Here we go, I found the number, called 'collapsed lifter gap' in '80 Ford service manual and on 2.3 with hydro lifters, .040"-.050". The clearance puts the lifter seat right about in the middle of its' travel or I'm thinking around .080" total travel there. It guarantees the valves will be closed at proper time.

Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2013, 05:50:36 AM »
Distributor is 180* out. Firing order is the same for all 2.3 engines, so I'm not sure what you mean by changing the wire position to an '80 model vs. a '74.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline Bigtimmay

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2013, 02:40:18 PM »
easiest way to time these motors is set the crank to TDC and then use the string method http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/CamTiming/Cam%20Timing%20Belt%20Replacement%20and%20Set%20Up.htm

Once your sure the belts on perfect then drop your dizzy in to the correct spot and install your wires and you should be GTG.
If it doesn't start after that get a compression tester and see if you have a valve open or not opening. But it sounds like yah got the timing off sometimes setting the timing can be a pain if using the stock markings.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2013, 10:02:56 PM »
First off, thanks for all the help everyone! I think I'm moving in the right direction anyway.

So here's the two 2300 diagrams I have in my Chiltons book. The tabs on my distributor are like the one that it shows for 1974, but my car is an 80 model.



1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline amc49

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 01:40:28 AM »
Doesn't matter where distributor ends up at as long as you have swing both ways to change timing and all parts like cap screws easy to get to. Rotor needs to be pointed at #1 and with crank on TDC but at the CORRECT TDC, there are two. One is at overlap and the other is at top of compression stroke, you need the second one or distributor 180 out like mentioned before.

You can use any post you want for #1 as long as the ones following are in the correct firing order.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 06:54:00 AM »
Doesn't matter where distributor ends up at as long as you have swing both ways to change timing and all parts like cap screws easy to get to. Rotor needs to be pointed at #1 and with crank on TDC but at the CORRECT TDC, there are two. One is at overlap and the other is at top of compression stroke, you need the second one or distributor 180 out like mentioned before.

You can use any post you want for #1 as long as the ones following are in the correct firing order.
What he said!..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2013, 10:34:58 AM »
So pointed at #1 as in the number one post on the distributor cap correct?
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2013, 10:37:42 AM »
Yes, which ever post the the #1 plug wire is.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2013, 12:16:07 PM »
Okay awesome  that clears up a lo. The book was confusing me.
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline blupinto

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2013, 11:46:02 PM »
This might have been covered, but I failed to see it... dids you check the starter solenoid? On a '74 it's mounted on the firewall. I sold my beloved green '73 wagon to a dear friend (Pinto Barn) and between he and Pinto Wizard (Doctor) Joey, they figured out why she refused to start. The solenoid was dead. :)
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Offline amc49

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2013, 08:43:07 PM »
'It'll turn over.......... ....'

Says the solenoid is working.

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2013, 11:36:26 PM »
She's alive! After a few timing adjustments and one blown fuel line, she's running good! Can't wait to take it for a test drive this weekend.
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline dga57

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2013, 01:51:22 AM »
FANTASTIC!!!
 
Dwayne :)
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2013, 06:45:40 AM »
Congrats, glad to hear you got it running..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline amc49

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2013, 07:56:06 AM »
Luck.......... ...make that first oil change pretty quick......... ........

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2013, 09:53:42 AM »
Okay. How quickly do I need to change it? And will it be okay to drive it to the exhaust shop with just a long tube header?
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2013, 10:11:33 AM »
On a fresh motor(with flat tappet cam)after the 20-30 minute break in I dump all the oil and cut open the filter, that tells if everything went well or not, if it's clean I then put a fresh batch of oil in with a new filter(Wix), then take it out and wring it's neck for about an hour, then I cut the filter open again and check it, if it's nice and clean I figure I have a good motor, put a new filter and add a quart and I'm good to go. Worked for me for 30+ years,lol.. Yes you can run it with an open header, just take it easy in case you're a tad lean.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2013, 10:27:21 AM »
Okay awesome. DO you open it with a saws all or what? And what do you mean wring its neck?

Thanks all of you for the help by the way!
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2013, 11:15:26 AM »
I use a filter cutter you don't want t put garbage in the filter, you can use a hacksaw right at the lip just be careful. I mean run the crap out of it, lol..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2013, 01:40:56 PM »
Okay awesome. Well, I've been driving it. It seems to be lacking a little power. And it idles way too high. I really need to replace the carburetor.
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)