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Offline dianne

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Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« on: March 20, 2014, 11:04:32 AM »
I am considering a 302 or a V6 for the Pinto. Is the V6, say from an 88 Escort, or a 90s Ford a direct swap except mounts and all? The 302 I know will be costly in labor and parts.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2014, 12:14:49 PM »
I'm not "up" on the V-6 world, but a lot of them were intended for front wheel drive cars.  Thus, mating them to a rear wheel drive transmission might be very limited if not non-existent.   Many also had a distributor mounted off the rear of the head. When configured in a rear wheel drive car there are interference problems with the firewall.

Just a guess on my part, but I'm thinking Ranger trucks and Aerostar vans are about the only intentionally rear wheel drive configured V-6 Fords in the past  25 years or so. Then there may be oil pan to crossmember and exhaust manifold issues.  But, maybe there is more others here know.

Offline dianne

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2014, 12:39:52 PM »
Thanks, maybe the 302 won't be as bad as I'm thinking also. But a V6 from a Mustang II might work. I was thinking of the 302 for another Mustang II I have an opportunity I have to pick up.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2014, 01:15:41 PM »
The Mustang II V-6 is essentially the same one the Pinto's, Bobcat's and Capri's used. Not sure how available parts are, or even finding one is today.  They were a popular engine swap into British sports cars some time back.

If your looking for power I'd think a '74 or newer Pinto swapped with the older 2.3 Turbo motors would be the easiest. You have the ready made motor mounts (and a bit more front space).  Also, the earlier Turbo Coupes lacked the intercooler and cumbersome wiring harness of the '87-'88 cars.  Mileage should be in the high 20's, maybe even the low 30's.  Power about 150-160 HP.  And, there would not be the adverse weight effects of the V-8.  There would probably be no more work than adding the V-8.

See what people here have to say about the factory V-6.  My understanding was that it was no powerhouse.  It basically compensated for weight and accessories (P/S, A/C etc.).

Offline Yelby

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2014, 01:20:41 PM »
Dianne,
 
The 2.8L V6 was not installed in Pinto's until 1974.  I took the complete V6 engine, motor mounts and transmission from a 74 Mustang and installed it in my 73 Pinto but some of the holes in the frame rails needed to bolt the mounts to where not there if I remember correctly(that was 34 years ago). 

I had Hooker headers, Offy manifold with a Holley 390, Mallory dual point distributor, Crane cam.  It ran a 15.5 at the strip with open headers and street tires.  It loved to rev but lacked low end umph.
 
Paul

Offline dianne

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2014, 01:27:54 PM »
That's great to hear, that the V6 Mustang II engine may be a near perfect fit :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Yelby

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2014, 01:40:36 PM »
If you go the V6 route grab the drive shaft too. :D

Offline amxtra

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2014, 04:15:02 PM »
   I have 2 words for you
Turbo !

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2014, 04:22:06 PM »
"I had Hooker headers, Offy manifold with a Holley 390, Mallory dual point distributor, Crane cam.  It ran a 15.5 at the strip with open headers and street tires.  It loved to rev but lacked low end umph."

Actually that ET is pretty good.  Us turbo guys generally pull our engines from Turbo Coupes. And, even the better ones ('87-'88) with about 30+ additional HP only ran 16.3 quarter miles.  I've seen that V-6 in a Sunbeam Alpine. It looked and sounded cool.  I have heard the same that they are low on torque, but rev well.

Glad you guys with V-6 backgrounds are able to provide Diane with more information.

Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2014, 07:08:05 PM »
Whittsend are you saying the T-birds ran 16's or the Pinto's with turbo T-bird engines? I sure hope the Pinto's are running faster than that! My 2.0 ran low 13's with a 50 shot of nitrous and slicks!  Dianne, anything you swap into the '73 will require fabricated engine mounts and probably fabricated everything else. Ask me how I know lol! Completely different animal from the '74 & up. The V6 was not the greatest engine Ford ever produced, sorry to say. No power, lousy fuel mileage and constant oil leaks.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2014, 08:33:01 PM »
Finding good V6 heads is challenge number one. Both of mine were cracked on a 77K mile car. The 2.3 with a good tune & free flowing exhaust has comparable HP numbers to a V6, is a bit lighter, gets slightly better fuel mileage & is waaaaay easier to find parts for.
 
A good running V6 has a smoother idle & a little better pick up from a standing start. Pinto V6 was automatic only but I know people used MII V6  4-speeds to go stick. I'm sure some T5's made the swap too but I've never researched the swap.
 
A V8 gets 10 mpg, mine sure did, but with patience & a good combo of parts you could see 20 mpg out of it. EFI/T5 swap maybe 25 if you drive normally. Engine mounts are expensive, frame mounts either need welded or holes drilled. Oil pan & pickup are expensive as are MII manifolds & most headers. Most run hot if you don't spring for a good radiator. The rear axle needs swapped to an 8" at the very least. Auto trans kickdown is a bear to fit just like the dipstick tube so get Lokar parts to make it easy.
 
A 2.3T swap is as cheap as it gets if you find a complete parts car (Merkur, Turbo Coupe or SVO) that runs. Several Merkur's have been on craigs under $600 but you have to be ready to pounce on them. I've been rounding up turbo parts off craigs for over 2 years as cheap stuff pops up. A total cash outlay of roughly $2500 over that time has netted me 4 complete shortblocks, several good heads (hard to find crack free), VAM's, intakes, 2 IHI & 2 T3 turbos, several E6 manifolds, intercoolers, a Merkur engine harness, several T5 trannies, 2 D5, 2 D9 & 2 bellcrank bellhousings plus boxes of other parts. A good low mileage 302/C4 with all the parts needed to install it in a Pinto can cost 2/3 of that.
 
You will need a Pinto 2.3 oil pan & pickup & a high pressure external fuel pump but the rest can come right from the parts car with little other expense. If you go auto the C4 is your best bet but the bellhousing can get pricey. The T5 swap is easier & cheaper if you like stick.
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'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
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Offline Bigtimmay

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2014, 09:31:10 PM »
Whittsend are you saying the T-birds ran 16's or the Pinto's with turbo T-bird engines? I sure hope the Pinto's are running faster than that! My 2.0 ran low 13's with a 50 shot of nitrous and slicks!  Dianne, anything you swap into the '73 will require fabricated engine mounts and probably fabricated everything else. Ask me how I know lol! Completely different animal from the '74 & up. The V6 was not the greatest engine Ford ever produced, sorry to say. No power, lousy fuel mileage and constant oil leaks.

87-88 T-bird 100% stock ran 16's that's a heavy car and those times are factory stock tires done by car and driver in 87 when the car was car of the year. That's 100% stock that's not including turning the boost up on a stock motor and adding better intercooling ,larger exhaust, air filter, porting and ETC ETC  to increase HP on the cheap. with cheap hp mods and the weigh reduction of a pinto that's easy 13s if not 12s.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

Offline dianne

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2014, 07:28:07 AM »
Well, right now instead of painting the cars I'm getting them ready for the paint booth. I found someone to spray my cars for $400.00 and that guy is awesome. So getting 4 cars painted over the summer I guess :) That will hold off on the engine swap for now :) I also am having the bottom half of the Galaxie's 351 redone - bearing is bad. Mustang engine almost done, sheese and I didn't even know I was made of money LOL

So the engine swap will have to wait a tad for now.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2014, 07:59:44 AM »
I didn't even know I was made of money LOL
Sorry to hear about your problem, must be rough,lol.. ::) ;D ;D
Art
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Offline dianne

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2014, 11:55:31 AM »
Sorry to hear about your problem, must be rough,lol.. ::) ;D ;D

And getting another Mustang II, that's where the 302 is going to go. I'll do the Pinto after I guess on the swap. That or the Galaxy will be the first to be painted I guess.

Problem is that I'm not made of money LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2014, 12:06:22 PM »
And getting another Mustang II, that's where the 302 is going to go. I'll do the Pinto after I guess on the swap. That or the Galaxy will be the first to be painted I guess.

Problem is that I'm not made of money LOL
I try to grow a money tree but for some reason it just won't grow no mater what I do, lol..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline dianne

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2014, 12:44:43 PM »
I try to grow a money tree but for some reason it just won't grow no mater what I do, lol..

LMAO - doesn't work for me either LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline pintosopher

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2014, 03:53:24 PM »
I try to grow a money tree but for some reason it just won't grow no mater what I do, lol..
I went to the nursery to buy a Seedling for a Money Tree, they said the state of California won't allow it , seems they would rather tax all of our existing money and besides, we don't have the water to grow it! ???

Pintosopher, One flush away from real drought management!
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2014, 08:32:11 PM »
I went to the nursery to buy a Seedling for a Money Tree, they said the state of California won't allow it , seems they would rather tax all of our existing money and besides, we don't have the water to grow it! ???

Pintosopher, One flush away from real drought management!

 Every time I get one to sprout someone comes along and cuts it down :(

Offline Reeves1

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2014, 07:31:48 AM »
One day (not soon) I'm going to put together a V8 swap "kit".
Complete from rad back, including headers trans & maybe a diff.
Will not likely sell in the States though......wi ll not be cheap.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2014, 07:48:34 AM »
Every time I get one to sprout someone comes along and cuts it down :(
At least you get it to sprout,lol.. ;D ;D
Art
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2014, 07:49:12 AM »
One day (not soon) I'm going to put together a V8 swap "kit".
Complete from rad back, including headers trans & maybe a diff.
Will not likely sell in the States though......wi ll not be cheap.
That would be cool. 8)
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline pintoguy76

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2014, 11:05:19 AM »
Dianne did you decide to keep the pinto? How are you managing to do that?
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed
 
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Offline dianne

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2014, 07:13:13 PM »
I read the sub-division rules and it's about the oil drip on the Galaxie. I promised I would have the leaks fixed. The car needs a lower rebuild and am having that done and since they are pulling the motor I'm having all the leaks fixed. So cat litter on the oil and soon as the crank and bearing get here my mechanic will be rebuilding it. Honestly, I couldn't sell it even when offered 2,500.00 and a thousand rounds of 5.56. Just couldn't sell the Pinto to be honest. It's too cool of a car :-D

I'm having this one painted in April also (Pinto that is). I need to do some more work on the body and then off to someone to shoot for me. Little by little I'll get all the cars done, but I can drive 3 of 4 for now and the 4th in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

So the Pinto is staying LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2014, 10:11:32 PM »
"One day (not soon) I'm going to put together a V8 swap "kit". Complete from rad back, including headers trans & maybe a diff. Will not likely sell in the States though......wi ll not be cheap."


Wow, I didn't realize there was such a demand outside the USA to convert Pinto's to V-8 power.  And here I'd have thought the very limited numbers of Pinto's out of the country, the limited access to American V-8's, the higher fuel cost and a general lower wages in other countries would have precluded it.  But, hey, here's to tapping the markets that others have missed. Go for it!

This whole concept makes me wonder where and how many Pinto's were exported. I recall about a year ago there was some guy who had one in Australia. I find the subject very interesting.  Years ago a gentleman wrote "THE" book on Sunbeam Tigers.  It took 25 years after the cars were built that anyone States side was aware that 79 were sold to South Africa as "knock down kits" to avoid certain taxes.  Something new is always popping up out of something old.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2014, 06:21:55 AM »
Wittsend - wages here in Alberta , due to the patch are high.
Common for people (like me) to make well over 100k a year.

While there are many more Pintos in the States that are in better condition , there are still lots up here. Seem to find other Pintos each year , in all Provinces.
Plus it's easy to bring them up from the south.

Also depends on where our (Canadian) dollar is at. Right now it's less (about .90c ) to your dollar ?
For a long time it was higher. When higher, I pound $ into my USD account, for future buys. Saved me over 1k on an engine one time.

Offline dianne

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2014, 08:50:20 AM »
Wittsend, are you thinking I am out of the country? LOL Idaho is in the US :) Well, last time I looked anyway, we haven't broken away from the US yet! Hey Texas is the closest to doing it, but Idaho wouldn't be far I guess ;)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2014, 02:44:14 PM »
Ok, I get it.  It kind of had me thinking that you (Reeves 1) were referring to selling to the world at large (by excluding the "States"), and not Canada (more specifically).  But now I get it.

Dianne, yes I know you are in Idaho. Hopefully what I wrote above explains all.

Slightly kidding but..., isn't everything from the Arctic Circle to the Yucatan Peninsula  considered "North America" anymore?   LOL Just ask Pintosopher, he knows!! We have the healthcare from the upper border and a large population from the lower border.  Ok, enough said, I was trying to be observational, not political.

Offline dianne

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Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2014, 03:14:10 PM »
If it wasn't for the liberals that halted the American expansion, from the north to south poles would have been America :D  That was political... Although Canada did kick our butts in Niagara back in the day...  Sheesh, didn't mean to get political either LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline D.R.Ball

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    Topic Starter Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter Windows User Fifth year Anniversary
Re: Engine swap on a 73 Pinto
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2014, 08:36:01 PM »
Sweet talk a Canadian into shipping a 2.0  Ford EAO twin cam turbo  from any thing with Ford and Cosworth name plates and have at it, or any fast I-4 or I-6 from some Japanese car.....Like a RB26 DETT  just to piss everyone off...After all not every one can be a Turbo Joe...and use a 2.3.