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Author Topic: Drive line vibration damper question  (Read 9730 times)

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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2014, 07:46:24 AM »
According to RockAuto, the 1974 Pinto 2.3 auto was the C4 only and no C3 which varies from the above posted id tag evidence, more mud. 
RockAuto shows a pan gasket for both C-3 and C-4 for 74..

Just took another look, if you look at the C-4 applications Pinto isn't on the list only the C-3 74-80..
Art
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Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2014, 09:57:16 AM »
but the c4 was available in the later 79=80 pintos and the door tag code for c4 is a w
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Offline oldkayaker

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2014, 01:57:20 PM »
74 PintoWagon you are correct on the 1974, I was just looking at flex plates on RockAuto.  I just checked O'Reilly and they list both C3 and C4 flex plates for 74 thru 79 Pinto's (the 1980 listing was unclear).  Maybe these part store listings are not the best resource for determining what originally came in what.  Anyway people probably need to look to see what they have.  In addition to the factory shuffling parts, past owners tend to use whatever is available to keep their cars running.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2014, 02:39:22 PM »
Anyway people probably need to look to see what they have.
That's what I always do..
Art
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2014, 06:51:01 PM »
Just a clarification to muddy up the waters. :)

The C3 was the most common auto used in the 2.3 Pinto's but a few came with the C4's.  Checked RockAuto and both the C3 and C4 are listed for the 1975 to 1980 Pinto 2.3's.  According to RockAuto, the 1974 Pinto 2.3 auto was the C4 only and no C3 which varies from the above posted id tag evidence, more mud.  A few years ago a person on craigslist was selling a 1979 Pinto engine with an auto and the photo was of a C4 (just an evidence point).

Bellhousings use 6 holes.  The 2.3 blocks up to about 1994 had two sets of upper mounting holes making a total of 8 mounting holes.  Of the 2.3's two sets of upper mounting holes, the auto used the lower two while the manual used the upper two.  The hollow locating dowels on the 2.0 block are smaller than the 2.3 block making the need for step dowels to use a 2.0 bellhousing on the 2.3 block without machining the 2.0 bellhousing.  The 2.3 C4 bellhousing holes match the 2.3 block standard straight larger dowels, so no step dowels needed.  If using a 2.0 bellhousing on a 2.3 block, the step dowels are easiest way to go.  A fellow over on TuboFord.org sells custom made step dowels (I believe they are not a Ford product).
http://forum.turboford.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=014626

I've always assumed the stepped dowels were for all the early C4 bells, not just the 2.0 version. I've never done the swap to know for sure.
 
Is it N/A 2.3's that are double drilled for both bells? My 83, 85, 86 & 87 turbo blocks are only drilled for the later 2.3 bellhousing.
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Offline oldkayaker

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2014, 06:35:53 AM »
The 2.0 engines and bellhousings (both manual and auto) use hollow locating dowels that measure about 0.5" in diameter.  The 2.3 engines and bellhousings (both manual and auto) use hollow locating dowels that measure about 0.6" in diameter.  So when using a 2.0 bellhousing on a 2.3 engine, a stepped hollow locating dowel can be used to allow it sit flush and aligned.  As an alternative, the 2.0 bellhousing locating dowel hole could be bored out to the 2.3's larger size but the machining needs to be precise for alignment.

On the two sets of 2.3 block upper mounting holes, I suspect we are not thinking of the same thing.  To rephrase, the early 2.3 blocks (70's & 80's) have 8 holes drilled and tapped for bolting down the bellhousings but only six of the holes are used.  The extra 2 holes are at the top of the block, see photos.  The early auto bellhousings use the lower of the 2 upper holes.  The late autos (~90's) and manuals ( early and late) use the upper of the 2 upper mounting holes.  This is the same for both NA and turbo blocks.  The above is based on the parts that I have.  I have the following early 2.3 blocks that have the two sets of upper holes (8 total holes): 79NA, 86T, 87T, 88T, and 89NA.  I have the following late 2.3 blocks with just the upper of the two set of upper holes (6 total holes): 93NA, 95NA, and 98NA.  Hope this did not confuse it further.

On a side note, the 2.0 bellhousings (both auto and manual) would use the lower of the two sets of upper holes on the 2.3 blocks.

Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2014, 09:56:26 AM »
Yeah, I have several early blocks drilled for both bells. I'll have to look again but I don't remember any of my turbo blocks being drilled for the 2.0 bell.
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Offline jburt

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2014, 03:54:52 PM »
Thanks everyone for the information and discussion. It is more than I anticipated and valuable to me.
I color outside the lines...
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2014, 04:40:34 PM »
Thanks everyone for the information and discussion. It is more than I anticipated and valuable to me.

As you can tell we have no idea how to stay on topic LOL
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Offline amc49

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2014, 07:08:23 AM »
Looking at a Ford 1980 powertrain service manual today shows both the C3 and C4 listed with Pinto/Bobcat 2.3 C4 service procedures specifically mentioned in that section. Apparently C4 still an option that late.

Offline jburt

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2014, 07:08:34 PM »

As you can tell we have no idea how to stay on topic LOL

Not a problem for me. I got my orig question answered and even more info I will eventually use.
Great job... Don't stop now.
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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Drive line vibration damper question
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2014, 04:28:56 PM »
As best I can tell, the major block changes, at least for the Ranger, occurred for the '95 model year. Smaller mains, no fuel pump provision, and the head got a different intakes and ports.

On a related off-topic note, what thread size are the bellhousing bolts? My guess is M10 or M12, but I'd like to have them in hand before I have to hang something on an engine stand.

The stepped dowels would be dead easy to make on a lathe....and I have free access to one.  ;D
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