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Author Topic: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside  (Read 12445 times)

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Offline pintoguy76

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Re: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2014, 10:00:19 PM »
Take the ignition module and have it tested. It sounds bad to me, even tho you said it was new. When i first got my 76 it would not start. It would try to start as I let off the key, but would not fire while cranking. It was the control module....
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed
 
1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E

Offline amc49

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Re: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2014, 03:30:20 AM »
Not out of the realm of possibility... .............. ............th ey don't go bad that often but when they do the effects can be mystifying as no two ever seem to fail with same symptoms.

Offline Chopchop

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Re: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2014, 05:21:23 AM »
Thanks for the replies.

I'm on new ignition module #2 and have tried 2 other used modules.  I can not detect any difference in the way the engine runs when I change modules.

I don't know where to bring the ignition module to check it.  Who checks modules?

The choke is definitely working and I believe that wire that's lying there is for the original temperature gauge.  I installed a SunPro temperature gauge and I ran new wires when I did that.  The SunPro gauge lets me monitor the temperature in detail (not just "Hot" or "Cold" or somewhere in between....)

I've never touched the spark plugs.
When the weather warms up a bit (still a "Polar Vortex" thing going on here), I'll verify the timing and pull the plugs.
Do you have a recommendation for spark plugs?  I don't know if these engines are temperamental with spark plugs....do they like a specific plug or will any new plug be okay?

Thanks again, stay warm!

Dave

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2014, 08:57:19 AM »
Autolite or NGK's..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline amc49

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Re: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2014, 05:24:32 PM »
Nothing personal but you're kinda lost.

'I'm on new ignition module #2 and have tried 2 other used modules.'

You've already tested the module in effect, the odds of 4 being bad are astronomical.

'The choke is definitely working....... ........'

No mention of it properly PULLING OFF. If you only mean it's closing, the possible missing wire pulls it back open correctly and possibly your smelling gas issue. The wire may lead to the element that pulls the choke OFF. So, your comment as quoted is worthless. As perfectly described by this.......... .

'It started without issue and ran for 3 or 4 minutes.
I turned it off and tried to start it again and it wouldn't fire.'

The choke shutting but not opening properly on time could easily do that. Perfect description of that effect.

And not touching the plugs but chasing module and other much more expensive things? You're going backwards there.

Any plug will work until you sort the issue out; virtually all NEW plug performance is the same at first. You can get platinum but wasting money on double platinum. Old school non-plats will work fine they just don't retain gap as long as plats do. Double plats are for waste spark ignitions, these do not have them. I always prefer to use same maker of plug that factory engine came with, the heat ranges will always be more accurate that way. Despite all the millions of comments that say otherwise I've never seen any plug last longer than any other if they were same basic construction. I use AC plugs in GM cars, Champion in Mopar, NGK in Japanese, and Autolite or Motorcraft in Ford. They all last forever if rest of engine is maintained, so many people blame plug when there is no difference. Pretty funny in my view. A plug is a plug.




Offline Chopchop

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Re: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2014, 06:52:48 PM »
I originally changed ignition modules because I had an extra one on the shelf in the barn. 
Then a Ford 2.3 Turbo guy I know said, "I'll tell you right now that your problem is that ignition module."
So I bought a new one and tried that.   (by now we're on module #3).
A couple of weeks later when I got the '76 Pinto engine, I bought all new stuff for that....coil, ignition module, cap, rotor, etc...
I figured that I'd try the other new ignition module on the car (#4 now).
No ignition module gives me any different result than any other ignition module.

Since my last post, I've done nothing.
I got hurt at work and everybody's been on my back to do NOTHING that doesn't have to be done.

However....


I drove the car on Sunday and it started and ran perfectly.  It's now 49 degrees outside and has been raining for 2 days.  I figured that this was the perfect time to see if the car would start. 
Of course, it would not.

I pressed the gas pedal once (all the way to the floor) and let my foot completely off.  I cranked it for 30 seconds or so and it turned over like nobody's business but wouldn't start.   I turned the key off and waited 30 seconds then without pressing the gas, I tried again and got the same result.

I pulled the top of the air cleaner off and the choke was closed.  I stuck a screwdriver down the carb and the car started right up.
When I pulled the screwdriver out, the choke did not close all the way anymore but the engine idled fine.

I turned the key off and tried again.  The choke slams shut as soon as I crank the key.  It does not open until the car starts.
Once the car starts, the choke opens up, everything is ducky and the car idles beautifully again.


I decided to check the timing.  So I made a white mark on the crankshaft pulley (at zero).

Here's a picture:



Here's where the timing mark is at idle (less than 1000 rpm).

(Also, you'll see the interesting spark issue at the end of the recording.)




Does that timing look correct to you?  I thought it was supposed to be something like 6 or 7 degrees?

Dave

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2014, 08:11:15 PM »
What is your total advance that's what's critical..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline amc49

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Re: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2014, 09:16:14 PM »
Too far advanced but vacuum advance to distributor must be unplugged while checking timing. If not done then could explain why so far up.

Been awhile since I played with these but the choke may not be closed all the way at stone cold engine before starting, often they have a 'qualification setting' meaning when you go and hit the accelerator pedal once to set the choke plate it closes but not quite fully shut, there is a small aircrack set there on purpose. Some cars require that, if no air at all with choke shut the engine instantly floods plugs and no start. Need to look up your year and see if that carb needs to be cracked open at choke a bit. In fact you can loosen the cover and simply adjust by rolling the cover one way or the other to get that dead cold setting cracked open a bit. Then lock cover back down. Try different air gaps at the choke plate and see if your starting gets any better. Setting the plate has nothing to do with the plate opening fully as motor gets hot, it will still do it.

You got bad plug wires there, could be the problem right there......... .......

Offline Chopchop

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Re: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2014, 04:56:53 AM »
DOH!   I forgot to unplug the vacuum advance!!  Thank you for reminding me.  I'll try again on Sunday.

The choke does close all the way when I press the gas pedal.  It SLAMS shut and is completely shut.

When you say, "you can loosen the cover and simply adjust by rolling the cover one way or the other..."
What cover? 
I'll take more pictures of the carb tomorrow and post. 

I'll get some new wires!!   It seems that that coil wired only arcs when the clutch cable is close to it but still....proba bly not good!

Thanks a million for your help with this, I went out yesterday and when it wouldn't start again, I swore that if somebody came buy and said, "Hey, you want to sell that car?"   That I'd PUSH it into their driveway.  I love the thing but when it won't start like this, I get nuts.
Other than the no start in wet weather, this car is unbelievably good to me. 

Thanks again,

Dave

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 2.3 Weak/No Spark While Cranking When Damp Outside
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2014, 08:09:42 AM »
When you say, "you can loosen the cover and simply adjust by rolling the cover one way or the other..."
What cover? 

The round cover on the side, loosen the three screws on the clamp and rotate the cover accordingly, the colder the weather the tighter it needs to be but without a coke pull off you need a slight gap or it will flood when it starts. A choke pull off operates on vacuum as soon as the motor starts the vacuum pulls the choke open a crack to let air in.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.