Author Topic: Brake rotors for a 72 wagon... (Read 9857 times)

jeremysdad · « **on:** June 16, 2013, 05:25:33 PM »

So, finally finished a took-way-longer-than-anticipated front end rebuild on my 72 wagon. First, I would like to confirm that the 74-up lower ball joints will function perfectly on the 71-72 suspensions with some creative grinding with a Dremel on the 2 holes the strut rod studs go through (small sanding drums, took me about an hour per side).

Now, the reason for this post. Having a tight suspension (new rack and pinion, upper/lower balljoints, outer tie rod ends, upper/lower bushings, shocks at all corners, sway bar end links, strut rod bushings) has highlighted an issue I've put off for financial reasons since I redid the brake system last fall.

My rotors were so thin (have original D22 Ford part numbers lol) that O'Reilly didn't even charge me for turning them. At $100+ per side, I couldn't afford new rotors then, and can't really, now. But, the general tightness of the front end REALLY magnifies the vibration/wobble when the brakes are applied.

My question is this: Can anyone confirm whether 74+ rotors will bolt on and function with the early calipers/pads, etc? I've seen the specs for both side by side, and they look so close, it isn't really funny.

I would just buy them and try, but after being down for 2 weeks, I really need my car back, it's my DD... :/

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2013, 09:22:35 PM »

There is some work to make them fit. I think it involves turning some material off the back of the rotor on a brake lathe but I'm not sure if the exact details.

D.R.Ball · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2013, 09:27:12 PM »

I checked Rockauto.com and could not find disc brakes for a wagon. I'm not sure why. The sizes for the non wagons between 1972 and 1974 are the height 3.79" for the 1972 (non wagon ) and 3.91" for the 1974, also the thickness is different NOM thickness is 0.75" for the 1972 and 0.88" for the 1974. Also the hub size is also different 2.43" for the 1972 and 2.51" for the 1974. I do not know if they can be machined to fit. So what is the difference between the wagons and the rest of the Pintos for that year ? Take your hubs in to a machinist and have them measure it out. The specs are on Rockauto.com and when you click on the info wiki it should pop up with a parts diagram from centric. I hope this helps.

TIGGER · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2013, 09:45:37 PM »

Pinto brakes are all the same regardless of body style. So any 71-73 brake parts should fit your wagon.

bbobcat75 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2013, 07:16:14 AM »

thses brakes are a pain, i have a 78 wagon ordered new rotors for , no big deal they are the same from 74-80! well some one before i bought it installed 72-73 spindals and rotors but i have the 74-80 brake calipers, tried to use the 74-80 rotors but when i got to tighten the spindal nut, they didnt spin didnt fit for nothing, got a set of 73 rotors and bolted up great!! not sure what the over all difference is but there is one!!!
good luck!!! and the 71 -73 rotors are way!!! over priced the cheapest i found was $110 a piece and they are so small and thin!! what a rip!!! o well, just venting!!!

take care

jeremysdad · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2013, 07:56:00 AM »

Well h***fire. lol Guess it's time to drop back and punt. Thanks, guys.

bbobcat, do you remember where/what they may have been hitting that was preventing them from turning? I can so live without dust shields, if need be.

Sorry for the questions, but I really don't want to have to have it apart sitting on stands for another week while I experiment and figure out what to do with it.

bbobcat75 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2013, 11:36:35 AM »

I WAS TRYING TO REMEMBER WHAT THE OVER ALL ISSUE WAS, THINK THAT THE 74-80 ROTORS WHERE TALLER IE FROM THE BACK OF ROTOR TO THE SPINDAL NUT, SO WHEN I TIGHTENED THE SPINDAL NUT THEY WHERE HITTING THE SPINDAL, PLUS NOT SITTING IN THE CALIPER CORRECTLY, I KNOW I DOUBLE CHECKED THE BEARINGS AND SEALS, THE USE THE SAME SEALS BUT DIFFERENT BEARS, NOW I DIDNT TRY TO SWAP BEARINGS, NOW IM THINKING I SHOULD HAVE. IF I REMEMBER ANYTHING ELSE WILL POST AN UPDATE.

IF YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO USED THE NEW ROTORS ON THE OLDER SPINDALS PLEASE LET ME KNOW WILL CONVERT MINE WHEN NEEDED, NOT INTO PAYING OUT THE @SS FOR STOCK NON PERFORMANCE ROTORS!!!

TAKE CARE

jeremysdad · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2013, 11:56:57 AM »

The bearings are the same, 71-80. I figured that, being my daily driver, I'd be better off just ponying up and ordering the right stuff for now, so I did. And yeah, it was painful, but after a discount code I found for Rockauto, got both new application specific rotors for $246.42, shipped. (It really hurt to type that number...lol)

In my head, I can see what *should have to be done to make the newer style rotors work, but in the interest of my sanity...at the insistence of my wife, went this route. Ultimately, it boiled down to being unsure whether the caliper/pad combo would fit over the newer rotors. That being said...

There would be some interference between the rotor and the caliper bracket, I'm sure. Personally, I would probably grind the mounting bracket a little, paint it, and call it a day. Yeah, probably lots of grind a little, test fit, remove, etc.

As I said, this is my DD, and I just need it to DD again. My next step, when these new rotors die, is to order a Granada swap kit, and modify it to fit. I figure with the new rotors, I have a few years to acquire the parts to do it all at once, and be done with it.

I wish I had taken pictures of my balljoint retrofit, but when bolted to the control arms, the grinding needed is self explanatory. I found a reference to it working elsewhere here, and rest assured, it does. The only drawback is that when they die, the entire suspension would have to come apart to fit replacements. Hopefully they last. lol

Also, something I couldn't find here (information wise) that has unfortunately cost me the price of another alignment, is strut rod bushing tightening/torque. The answer is succinct (via a classic Mustang forum): Tighten them until you run out of thread. I put this in this post in the hopes of saving someone else the expensive guesswork. lol

One more: Again, hard to explain, but it regards control arm bushing replacement. A little finesse with an air chisel, and they came right out, even being the original rusted-solid stockers. Just take your time. Same with the rivets on the ball joints (also original)...I had bare control arms in about 15 minutes, just took my time, and paid attention.

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2013, 05:29:01 PM »

http://www.fordpinto.com/pinto-faq/how-to-install-5-lug-9'rotors-on-71-73-pinto/

After 2 days I found the info. I was right about machining the rotor on a brake lathe. It has to be cut to fit the early calipers. Get used 4 lug '74-up rotors out of the boneyard & give it a shot.

jeremysdad · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2013, 05:49:31 PM »

That's kind of what I was imagining you'd have to do. I guess I'll run these solid gold rotors I just bought til they die, and work on figuring out the best way to go in the future for an affordable setup.

Thanks for the info, maybe I didn't go far enough through the search results.

Side note: Running the newer rotors might make me nervous, having to start with new rotors cut down to their minimum thickness. Anyone else?

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2013, 05:56:20 PM »

Here's the Granada swap for future reference.

http://www.fordpinto.com/pinto-faq/front-disc-brakes-(4-5-lug)/

If you look at the after machining pic the rotor that's cut looks like it has as much meat left as the stock early rotor. I'd run them.

bbobcat75 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2013, 07:31:13 AM »

THESE FRONT BRAKES CONFUSE THE HECK OUT OF ME, MY 78 HAS THE RIGTH CALIPERS BUT USES THE 71-73 ROTORS AND EVERYTHING LOOKS STOCK NO CUTS WELDS OR GRINDING, THE ONLY THING I CAN COME UP WITH IS THE SPINDALS WHERE CHANGED AT SOME POINT OF ITS LIFE, BUT WOULD THINK THE CAILPER MOUNTS WOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM A 73 - 74 ?!?!?

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2013, 10:52:59 AM »

Quote from: bbobcat75 on June 18, 2013, 07:31:13 AM

THESE FRONT BRAKES CONFUSE THE HECK OUT OF ME, MY 78 HAS THE RIGTH CALIPERS BUT USES THE 71-73 ROTORS AND EVERYTHING LOOKS STOCK NO CUTS WELDS OR GRINDING, THE ONLY THING I CAN COME UP WITH IS THE SPINDALS WHERE CHANGED AT SOME POINT OF ITS LIFE, BUT WOULD THINK THE CAILPER MOUNTS WOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM A 73 - 74 ?!?!?

The only difference between the rotors appears to be that the late rotors have more meat on them. I'm guessing you had something else keeping you from getting the late rotors on. The late calipers wont bolt to early spindles. I assumed you had the early calipers too.

jeremysdad · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2013, 12:35:49 PM »

New rotors will be here tomorrow, according to Fed-ex.

bbobcat, you should pull a wheel and post a pic so we can see what you're working with. As 5.0 stated, you have something weird going on, one way or the other.

Thanks for the input guys! I'm going to run these til they die, and figure out/source parts in the meanwhile.

jeremysdad · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2013, 02:02:16 PM »

The solid-gold rotors I ordered: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1135112&parttype=1896

I would like to note that these apparently have a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty...hav ing read through the fine print, I believe it would most likely be an 'I already bought these elsewhere and just need a refund' situation (which is why I really hate ordering parts online, but money and all that). But, 3 years and hopefully some money back...cool. I'll take it.

I'm laying out my Rockauto invoice, overlaying my O'Reilly receipts for new pads and bearings, and saving the resulting picture.

Saved $70 versus getting them through O'Reilly, and they're Raybestos (probably the exact same thing). Rockauto still has a listing for the Centric part at $10+ less, but add to cart, and they're unavailable. If you want to direct-replace your early rotors, I would advise to get these before they're gone.

Here's to smooth braking...havi ng a well running car that accelerates at will is awesome, but stopping smoothly is everything.

Polara · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2013, 05:33:54 PM »

Will the later spindles bolt on to an older car? I think they are a bit taller and will lower the roll center. They
can be had for about $100 for the pair and the rotors are about $30

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2013, 06:04:55 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/Raybestos-6022R-Professional-Grade-Assembly/dp/B001C6QA1Y

bbobcat75 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2013, 09:01:31 PM »

that's a nice find on amazon!!

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2013, 09:30:48 PM »

Having the part number made it easier to find them.

jeremysdad · « **Reply #19 on:** June 19, 2013, 09:55:43 AM »

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on June 18, 2013, 06:04:55 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Raybestos-6022R-Professional-Grade-Assembly/dp/B001C6QA1Y

I'm not even commenting on that...rofl Good find, I thought about checking Amazon, but didn't. Ah, well...Just a hundred bucks... :/ rofl

Edit: I have emailed the kind folks at Rockauto to see if they will be nice enough to adjust the price of the order for me. Will let ya'll know what they say, and yes...I feel like a tool for not having checked Amazon. lol

bbobcat75 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 19, 2013, 11:12:40 AM »

JEREMYSDAD IF YOU PM ME YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS I WILL SEND SOME PICS OF WHAT I HAVE ON MY CAR! TRIED TO POST ON HERE BUT PHOTOS TOO LARGE, GET THAT EVERY TIME I TRY TO POST A PIC!! GRRRRR

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 19, 2013, 11:28:56 AM »

Quote from: jeremysdad on June 19, 2013, 09:55:43 AM

I'm not even commenting on that...rofl Good find, I thought about checking Amazon, but didn't. Ah, well...Just a hundred bucks... :/ rofl

Edit: I have emailed the kind folks at Rockauto to see if they will be nice enough to adjust the price of the order for me. Will let ya'll know what they say, and yes...I feel like a tool for not having checked Amazon. lol

I Googled the part number & Amazon popped up. I hope they do something to adjust their price at Rock.

Amazon is where I found my ceramic coated Pacesetter header for 250 bucks. That's what everyone wanted for a painted version

bbobcat75 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 19, 2013, 05:51:58 PM »

rotor pic 1

bbobcat75 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 19, 2013, 05:53:04 PM »

pics 2 3 4 5

bbobcat75 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 19, 2013, 05:54:08 PM »

bbobcat75 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 19, 2013, 05:55:13 PM »

last 4

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 19, 2013, 06:46:08 PM »

Yeah, those are late calipers & pads for sure. My guess is you either had the wrong bearings or maybe the new rotor had the race installed part way. All my rotors had races already.

The bearings should have been Set 12 & set 13 in Timken if I remember correctly.

jeremysdad · « **Reply #27 on:** June 19, 2013, 07:08:44 PM »

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on June 19, 2013, 06:46:08 PM

Yeah, those are late calipers & pads for sure. My guess is you either had the wrong bearings or maybe the new rotor had the race installed part way. All my rotors had races already.

The bearings should have been Set 12 & set 13 in Timken if I remember correctly.

Agreed. I have not seen that caliper set-up, in person, as I have an early model. I question: Have the mounting holes been 'hogged out' to fit the later brackets to the earlier spindles, or vice versa? What I have seen for making the 'All in one' swaps fit early models, it's mainly a mounting-location issue.

Been wrong before... lol

They are Set 12 and 13, same seal.

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 19, 2013, 07:50:58 PM »

That would be a ton of work for no gain if that was done. The tie rod hole would have needed hogged out to work & the upper hole on the late caliper bracket would be off by 5/8" at least plus the lower hole would need a spacer.

bbobcat75 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 20, 2013, 06:47:04 AM »

BY LOOKING AT ALL MOUNTING AND TIE ROD END HOLES AND SO ON ALL LOOK TO BE FACTORY NO MODS AT ALL!! THAT IS WHY I WAS SO f%^&ING CONFUSED WHEN TRYING TO FIX THE BRAKES, LEFT FRONT PADS WHERE WASTED AND GROUNDED THE ROTOR TO NOTHING SO WAS JUST GOING TO DO A EASY ROTOR AND PAD SWAP AND TOOK 5 DAYS TO GET IT DONE, AND ENDED UP BUYING A SET OF USED ROTORS JUST TO SAVE A BUCK AND GET THE CAR BACK ON THE ROAD.

BUT ON A SIDE NOTE THE FRONT RIMS ARE A SET OF EARLY 71-73 MAGS AND IF I HAD THE 74-80 ROTORS THEY WOULDNT FIT SO IT WORKED OUT FOR ME IN THE END!! LOL

TAKE CARE AND GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BRAKE D BACH ALL!!!

News:

Current Classifieds

Author Topic: Brake rotors for a 72 wagon... (Read 9857 times)