PINTO CAR CLUB of AMERICA
Welcome to FordPinto.com, The home of the PCCA => General Help- Ask the Experts... => Topic started by: ToniJ1960 on February 10, 2013, 06:43:10 PM
-
My brake light had been lighting and it only happened once in a while.I checked the fluid in the resevoirs and the front chamber was only half way full maybe less. I had the pads replaced and shoes not too long ago and Im not sure if they topped it up or not. So anyway filled it up to a 1/4`` from the top.
Driving tonight the brake light came on while I was at a stop. But it came a few seconds after I took my foot off the pedal. At the time it came omn m,y foot was not on the pedal.
Ok what do you think is going on here. And is the front chamber for the rear brakes? The smaller chamber.
-
ok if I pres the brake pedal down normally or quickly it stays very firm. If I let it back up and just hold liight pressure on it it drops until the light comes on.
Air in the lines? Bad master cylinder? I had them go bad before seems they dont make them to last. My last one leaked, autoz one. Are they more likely to drop in the front section or back section if they leak?
-
Try bleeding all 4 & see if it stops the problem but my guess is you either have a leaking master cylinder, rear wheel cylinder or possibly a pinhole in a brake line.
-
Do you have power brakes ? Sounds like the system is leaking. Check the hose going from the intake manifold to the vacuum brake booster.
-
I should have mentioned its power brakes. Do you mean check the inside of the hose to see if its zooping in brake fluid?
Is the front reservoir for the back brakes? Would it be low in that one more than the larger reservoir would be if the mc was leaking? I guess it would a smaller reservoir would drop faster. I have a new mc I kept so I guess I can put it on.
-
Check both rear wheel cylinders for leaks 1st but usually pedal creep combined with fluid loss is the O-rings on the master cylinder plunger letting fluid past.
You may see fluid leaking where the MC bolts to the booster.
-
I dont think I would see much there isnt there an o ring to seal off the booster from the master cylinder?
-
I dont think I would see much there isnt there an o ring to seal off the booster from the master cylinder?
I don't think so but it gets pretty nasty in there with rust & crud.
-
Im going to watch for one anyway when I take it off I guess.I remember one time having the master cylinder replaced and my car came back running really rough. They swore it couldnt have been anything they did.I found out from someone else they had pinched or left out the o ring that seals it. I think theres one in there but I guess ill see.
-
vacuum seal
-
seal
-
I've never seen an o'ring on the rear of a Ford m/c. The only rubber piece I've seen between the m/c & booster is the vac. seal in the above pics.
If the m/c is leaking fluid externaly it would (should) be coming out of the grove in the1st pic. If you can't see any sign of fluid leaking anywhere in the brake system, then the cups on the m/c piston are by passing internaly. Which is quite common.
-
I guess thats what hey pinched before when I had my master cylinder replaced at Western Auto.It really made my car run rough.
Well we changed the master cylinder today, the pedal is still pretty good, I guess I should bleed it anyway.
But, the pedal still drops with light steady pressure and it maks the light go on. So maybe its a pin hole somewhere?
Doesnt anyone know if the front chamber is for the back brakes? I thought thats the way it was but its been so long since I thought about it.
-
Can sometimes take a lot of bleeding to get the air out of the lines. Did you bench bleed the new master?
-
No matter what make of vehicle if there are two different sized chambers the smaller is for the axle with wheel cylinders. In the case of a Pinto that would be the rear wheels. No I've never seen a vehicle with drum front & rear disk. But I've come to learn on here to be very careful of what I say or risk being bashed by someone that knows much more than me.
Since you have replaced the m/c & still have the same issue I 'think' you should really look for an external leak & remove the brake drums to see if you have any signs of a leaking wheel cyl.
-
We did bench bleed the master cylinder.
And it was the large chamber that was low before so maybe I should check the front brakes. Whats really weird is if I press the pedal firmly its fine it doesnt drop no matter how long I hold it. Only oif I press it lightly will it drop far and even though it doesnt drop so far that I cant get my other foot under the pedal still. It does make the light come on though. I read somewhere front hoses can bulge maybe if I press firmly t hey already bulged and if I press slowly they let the pedal drop?
Getting those lines to thread into the master cylinder was no fun either is there any trick for it? I used good line wrenches and we did finally get it to thread in right. I just dont want to think about doing it again.
-
I found a leak it looks like its leaking from. Theres a steel line the comes down from under the hood loops back up and bolts to a bracket. The hose screws to the top of the bracket part. Well its leaking a tiny tiny drop under the nut at the bottom and dripping down the steel line. Cant find any on top of the nut that attaches the line or at the bottom of the hose area.
Could it stil be a bad hose? A loose nut I might try to tighten it but afraid to if its already tight and I dont have to.
A split in the flare letting it leak from area between the nut and line? Pinhole?
-
Noones had or seen this before? Any suggestions? Its been over 12 years that I changed one of these hoses and not knowing what ill run into with that bottom part that goes to the hose Im not rushing into it right now.
Has anyone got some pictures or drawings of the line and nut piece that goes to the bracket where the hose goes to?
-
Does anyone have some pictures/drawings of how the hose goes on and off? Im going to try changing the hose and if it still leaks then I guess it needs a new line that goes to it. Can you still get those fittings? Anyone know what it is exactly?
-
Are you talking about the front brake hose going to the caliper? If that's leaking change both sides. Autozone & others can get them for about 10 bucks each or get em on Ebay.
-
Yes the front brake hose that goes to the caliper. I was hoping someone had some pictures or images of hw it disconnects at the opposite end from the caliper. Where it goes to the steel line. And maybe a picture or something I can use to tell if that fitting on the steel line might be damaged. Im not sure if its leaking due to the hose or not.
-
I don't know if this pic helps. My lines are street rod braided due to drop spindles but the attach at the same point.
(http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af357/OrangeCrushMustang/Pinto/001-10_zpsbe13afa9.jpg)
-
So the hose just unbolts a the top? My chiltons has no images for it but says something about a horseshoe clip.
I really need to know how to check the fitting on th end of the steel line. The drop I found is running down the line and it seems like its coming from the nut where the line goes through it.
-
The rubber line is the female end & the hard line threads into it. The horseshoe clip keeps the line in place on the L bracket
-
No need to remove the horseshoe clip? Can I get a line somewhere with the male fitting on it?
-
The clip can stay on. The brake line is a standard line you can get at any parts store.
-
With the right fittings on both ends? And is there any place that will bend it or do I have to get a tubing bender of some type?
-
The parts stores will sell straight pieces of brake line with both ends on it. all you would need to know is the length of the brake line and they will sell you a piece. The correct size you would need is 3/16" & when you take it off take a measuring tape & follow all the curves & contours of the line. That will tell you how long of a line you will need. Another trick to doing this is to take some yarn or string & do the same thing, then cut it off at the end & measure that instead.
As for bending it yes you will have to bend it yourself but the parts stores also sell cheap tubing benders & they might even have a loaner tool for the job but I'm not too sure of that. If you have a harbor freight tools store around you they have them really cheap & they do the job.
-
The only place close enough to me to get to easily right now is OReillys. Im not real happy with them they never have in stock what you need and they wil try to sell you something they know you cant use (I needed cobalt bilts and they tried to get me to buy `high speed` steel bits when they probably knew darn well they wouldnt work for what I told them I needed. I have to be careful with them.
So, in that regard, can anyone tell me what tubing bender they have might be worthwhile and any I should definitely avoid? They are recommending this performance tool one that looks like pliers with a roller on the end.
-
That's the right one. I got me one of them for Christmas a few years ago & it does a great job at bending the lines
-
There is also one for about $4 at Oreily. Here's the part number Part # W704C
-
Have you ever used one like it?
-
Any bender will do the job but a socket clamped in a vise makes a great mandrel as well. It's easy to bend 3/16" with your fingers
-
Have you ever used one like it?
I have before I got the other one for Christmas. It took a little more time to bend the parts but did the job when I needed to use it.
-
if it works ill look at it while Im there instead of the other one then. I just worry about it crimping.
-
I cannot get the brake line looe at the h block. I tried with a 7/16 line wrench and its only going to strip it so I stopped right away.
Is it metric on a 1978?
-
Hello Toni!
I am not the most handy person with this, but I do know your lines are not metric.
Pictured below is a tool that I think everyone should have! This was my dad's baby pipe wrench. I use this for lots of things. You might try this on the brake line. I last used this on insalling my cooler water valve. It is in a real bad, tight place where you can't use an "adult" size wrench!!!!
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8508/8490954188_d6ee37539d_h.jpg)
-
Im just afraid of rounding that brass flare nut once I realized my 7/16 line wrench wasnt getting it right I gave up. I guess ill just change the hoses and see if its all I need. I might have to splice in a piece of line rather than messing up that b nut.
Can you flare a line while its still in the car? I read different things about using a compression splice. I know sears put one on my car once and its still holding. I was mad though they qouted me to replace that line and didnt. I yeled at the manager and said for $90 I was mad I couldve got that done for $25 down the street and he gave me back my money.I yelled at him in front of all the customers deliberately. They made Sears quit working on cars not long after that too.
-
The flare nut on brake tubing is made of steel not brass. If you have brass,someone along the way has changed it.
3/16 tubing flare nuts require a 3/8 wrench & not a 7/16. Except sometimes the OEM will use a different nut to avoid mixing up lines.
If you are going to replace the piece of tubing, cut it off close to the nut & then use a ' good' 6 point socket or 6 point box wrench to remove it.
Yes, in some cases tubing can be flared while on the vehicle but it does require a good amount of space to do it. And some experince in using a flareing tool.
Compession type fittings are not legal for use on a HYD brake system in PA & even if they were I would never use them myself.
Keep in mind it doesn't have to be an exact match to the OEM one with that tight bend etc. Just need to get fluid from 'A to B' without kinks or leaks.
If you buy a pre-made piece of line it may have one nut longer than the other. The longer nut is for use in a wheel cyl. or something where the seat is set deep. Maybe in your case the hose end.
Off subject, if you do a M/C again, leave the mounting nuts as loose as possible so you can move it around. Once you have the lines finger tight, tighten the M/C mounting nuts then the lines using a wrench.
-
I was using line wrenches but theyre those great neck or whatever they are. It fit pretty tight barely got on the nut.Maybe the edges are already worn. It looks like brass at least. When I had a steering hose changed before I saw them cut the hose and use a socket. As a last resort I was thinking of doing that of course I wouldt have any chance of splicing in after I cut it close enough.
I thought thats what I should have done with the mc. Leave it to me to do it the hard way.
-
Good Grief ! Please tell me what side you have the problem on. From what you have said I'm thinking the left. Either way I will make you a brake line & send it to you at no cost to you, rather then see you going around with some Mickey Mouse splice in a 'brake line' ! You're not talking a piece of windshield washer hose but a 'brake line.'
If you're at all interested PM me or Email me at hawker39@verizon.net with your mailing address & which side you need.
-
I appreciate that well I had someone comre to change the brake hoses oday hoping that might be all it needed. Otherwise the drivers side front line has to be replaced. Well he broke the brake line on the other side trying to unbolt the hose. Now he says hes coming back in the morning and hes going to change both the lines. I dont know how much hes going to charge but to me he broke the other one he shoulnt charge too much.
What he wants to do is unbolt the h block to get to it better but Im afraid hes going to brake the rear one next. This car could be on the verge of being junked out the way its going.
-
Not, remember these cars are over 30 years old and require some work, time and patience to fix. I had the same problem when I changed the Master Cylinder and the Vacuum booster. I had to fab up some lines....The lines are cheap and so is the tool to flare the lines. If you plan on keeping the car either get a pair of brake wrenches from Snap on or at least Craftsman...Us e good tools for brake lines( they strip easy) etc mostly cheap stuff for ever thing else...Also get used to the idea of having two sets of tools one metric and one standard....Th e engine is metric and everything else is standard..... Pawn shop's can be your best friend in buying tools, cheap prices and good quality IE professional grade tools pawned by out of work auto mechanics...I had to get parts off a junk yard car and had to go to the pawn shop to find a wrench, I did got the part for about the same price as the tool...
-
Im most likelt to tell this guy enough is enough if hes going to keep breaking things and wants to charge me more to fix what he breaks too.
I was looking at some sockets called grip tite and OReillys has a flare wrench by American Grease Stick but its $42.
I think I am going to need something special to get these lines off at that h block. Does it come off if its bolted to the fender? He wants to pull up to try to wrench the lines Im afraid hes going to screw up more lines that way personally.
Also Im a little weary of buying used tools in case theyre even slightly worn but I guess good ones might not wear so much.
-
Any time you work on an older car you break parts that weren't broken as you attempt to make repairs. It's normally the case that you destroy the hard line when you try to remove it unless you have a clean Arizona car. I broke a lot of things when I rebuilt my front suspension on my '80 but that's the fun of an old car.
-
As puttputt said, after line wrench fails use little pipe wrench I have done this many times. Fred :)
-
Do you unbolt the block to get to it and lift it up?
Also do Pintos ues bubble flares or double flares.
-
Double flare
-
Do you think unions and double flare fitting will be safe on a brake line?
-
Yeah, those are designed to handle pressure. I used one on my dually to get to the rear since they don't make 9 foot long pre-made lines. It's been on there 7 years now.
-
Well after cutting the line the socket worked like butter.Still have to get the other side off and bend the new ones to go in. I guess I should put those clips on the line that bolt to the under body? Are they real important theyre sure a pain.
The lines I got look black. Is it some kind of coating on the steel?
-
It's poly armour coated, suppose to help stop corrosion.
-
Well the brake lins and both hoses are in and not laeking the pedal is really good. But it still sinks if you press real slow on it. Someone looked at it and he pumped the pedal a bunch of times and checked and showqed me air bubbles in the rear reservoir. He said those bubbls man the master cylinder has an internal leak. I dont have my receipt anymore and AutoZone says its not under my phone number and wont try to find it any other way. Even whn I went there for the brake lines the first guy said they didnt have them and was so short with me, I asked another guy and he went in back and got them.
I guess I dont want another one from AutoZone anyway. Are the ones from OReilly any good or should I go get one at napa?
-
Remanufactured master cylinders can be hit or miss no matter where you get them from. I would check to see if they are different brands. Napa tends to sell items under their own "private name" but it could actually be the same part as you could get at oreily auto. Just my opinion anyways ;D
-
do you think hes right if theres bubbles in the reservoir it means the seals are leaking?
-
I guess ill try a remanufactured one and see what happens. OReilly this time forget Autozone.
-
do you think hes right if theres bubbles in the reservoir it means the seals are leaking?
To be honest that's the first time I have ever heard that but if the pedal isn't holding it's generally an indication of a bad master cylinder
-
Its the same as when it first made the brake light go on. If you press the pedal and hold it it doesnt drop a bit and its a good high pedal. If you put your foot on the pedal and just barely press it goes down just far enough to make the brake light come on. The lowest it goes I can still put my other foot under the pedal. I guess the first master cylinder was bad, he says if you get air bubbles in the reservoir like that after pumoing the pedal and taking the cap off, it means the seals are bad. The bubbles were in the reservoir for the rear brakse and it was the other reservoir that was low before. I havent seen a bit of drop in the level in the reservoir that had bubbles in it at all.
-
Does anyone know if I can get a couple of small bolts that would screw in the master cylinder to block off the lines for testing? If I block the back and it still drops, then I could put the other bolt in the front and if it still drops ill know its the master cylinder. If it does stop ill know its something in the front or back system. What size they would be?
-
You would actually want to get a couple of threaded tapered fittings instead of bolts. They are inverted flare fittings but I don't know if they make what you are looking for.
-
To be honest I don't know that you would want to do that though.
-
I called OReilly and they actually have plugs made to do it theyre a little pricey but I guess something to keep in the toolbox.
Also I just read somewhere if you get bubbles in the reservoir after pumping the brakes it does mean its abad master cylinder. Maybe autozone parts really do zoop.