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Offline clsecmbt

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Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« on: March 15, 2020, 05:27:28 AM »
When we bought our '71 I noticed that the turn signals fired both rear indicators together. Figured it was a ground problem and marked it for follow up.
Since then I have cleaned all of the front grounds, replaced the body ground/negative battery cable, tried manually grounding the taillight housings, checked the bulbs, isolated the headlight and turn signal switches and still no change. While checking the brake light switch, I can see it has been replaced and the harness spliced to accept a later style connector, but I saw no issues. 

When you turn the signals on, the dash indicator and front indicator work correctly, blinking left or right. Both of the rears blink together. When you press the brake, whatever lights were blinking (either side in the front and both rears) light up solid and the signal flasher stops. I've gone over the wiring diagram and I'm not sure what else to do besides start peeling harness tape off and looking for fried wiring. Is there a connector between the dash and the rear of the car I can isolate somewhere? Any advice appreciated.
-1971 Pinto Runabout

Offline JoeBob

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2020, 08:33:58 AM »
You said you checked the bulbs, but I had this very problem. For some reason the contact points on the bulbs spread out and made contact with each other. They may not look bad but, I suggest you replace them just to be sure.
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Offline HOSS429

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2020, 06:15:12 PM »
do the emergency flashers work properly ? ever issue i have ever had with lights has turned out to be a ground  problem ..  maybe even check the turn signal switch itself ..make sure you dont have a 1156 bulb in a 1157 spot .. or if you have put in a LED bulb by mistake ..  i hate electrical problems ..

Offline clsecmbt

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2020, 05:09:30 PM »
Swapped the bulbs and turn signal cam for known-good ones from my '71 Maverick, no change. Going to start chasing individual wire resistance until we find the short.
-1971 Pinto Runabout

Offline KoReynolds

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2020, 09:08:55 PM »
I have a 72 and am also having issues, have left front and right rear turn signal and right brake light, all hazard lights work. I replaced headlight switch, all bulbs, brake light switch and cleaned all the grounds I could think of, any help would be great

Offline HOSS429

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2020, 08:36:24 AM »
are either of you guys using a test lite to check for voltage on the hot side ..

Offline KoReynolds

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2020, 09:24:32 AM »
I am, nothing hot at the terminals that are not working

Offline HOSS429

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2020, 11:56:21 AM »
everything on mine works so i will do some reverse engineering  type testing as soon as i can find my test lite ..

Offline HOSS429

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2020, 01:41:31 PM »
if you have`nt already remove the lower half of the steering column plastic cover to get access to the blinker switch connector ..i believe the light blue wire supplies the hot to the blinkers as it is only hot with the switch on yet will blink in both directions ..the white wire with the green stripe is the left blinker and will blink when you turn the signal that way  .. the white  wire with the  blue stripe is the right side blinker and will blink when you turn the signal that way .. ..these wires are next to each other on the back side of the connector ,,

Offline KoReynolds

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2020, 07:06:53 PM »
Ok hereís what I got, blue wire blinks both ways, white with blue stripe flashes for right turn, white with green stripe flashes with left turn. I also have a white wire with red slashes on it, very dim light with key on, green wire with red slashes on it bright light with key on. Retested hazard lights all work except left rear. Right turn activated no interior indicator, yet it works with hazards on. Iím thinking ground still a possibility but where? Could be turn signal switch I guess I should pull it and clean contacts

Offline HOSS429

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2020, 07:17:50 PM »
have you checked both the turn signal flasher and the emergency signal flasher ?  they are both located very near each other under the dash and above the glove box ,, you must remove the glove box to access each ,,the emergency flasher is not in question as you say they work .. the blinker flasher is hot  on the one wire all the time and is hot on the other wire when flashing in either direction ..

Offline HOSS429

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2020, 08:35:53 AM »
pressing the brake pedal turns on the green wire . the orange wire and the lite green wire with the orange stripe ,, at the rear the orange wire with the blue stripe is the right side brake lite .. the green wire with the orange stripe is the left brake lite ..

Offline HOSS429

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2020, 01:49:15 PM »
that last post is kinda useless as every action uses the same two wires .. blinkers ,,brake lites and emergency flashers ..the other wire is the parking lamp ..

Offline KoReynolds

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2020, 09:52:18 PM »
I replaced both flashers, I am going to dig into this this weekend and see what I can find out, I appreciate you taking the time, I will let you know what I find or donít find

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2020, 11:06:32 AM »
A lot of turn signal mechanisms have grease on the contacts. Over time dirt gets trapped, the grease drys up and it insulates the contact point.  If the car has been subject to leaks moisture can cause corrosion even on internal connections. Contact cleaner does not (in my opinion) do a good job. You have to use a very light abrasive. To that end the female side of a connector can be difficult. Toothpaste on the connector and repeated insert/removal of the halves THEN cleaned with contact clean might be helpful.

 A good way to check grounds is to connect a long wire to the ground at the battery. Then move wire to the external case on the bulb. If it lights up you know the issue is a ground. Many times I have resorted to soldering a wire to the internal car structure (you need a BIG iron) and then to the bulb case. But you know that you should then have a corrosion free ground.

Offline KoReynolds

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2020, 05:29:54 PM »
I spent most of the day on it and I have determined it is the switch. I took everything apart and cleaned everything, I bypassed the plug and contacted each male end and got every light to work. When I put it all back together I did have a couple more lights but still missing left rear brake light and turn signal and right front turn signal. I pushed on the lower end of the turn signal cam and then those lights work, I guess the cam has a bow in it or the contacts are worn to the point where it no longer has contact.  With that said, I have looked for a turn signal switch for a 72 and cannot find one, does anyone know where I can get one or is there another one that works in Pintoís?

Offline Reeves1

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2020, 05:58:13 AM »
I think this is where I got one a few months ago ?

https://www.dearbornclassics.com/70-71-turn-signal-switch.html#

Wire harness was longer than OEM.

I have one in the shop, but the cam is broken.

I found a cam made by Dorman - but they wouldn't ship to Canada.

https://www.autozone.com/electrical-and-lighting/turn-signal-cam/dorman-turn-signal-cam-49301/4916_0_0

Been meaning to get a USA guy to get one & send to me.......but with what is going on in the world right now, thought it better to wait.

Offline KoReynolds

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2020, 01:33:40 PM »
I did replace the cam on mine, didnít change anything. Thanks for the link, I will order one when I get a chance. Thank you guys

Offline clsecmbt

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2020, 11:40:02 AM »
Took me four days to find it, but I did. Stuffed in the rear panel was a wad of electrical tape. Inside that wad was a cut ground wire and the signal wires for the left/right turn signals spliced together. My working theory is that someone did this when the brake switch (which was also re-wired) went out, in order to make the signals act as brake lights.
-1971 Pinto Runabout

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2020, 12:07:06 PM »
Glad to see you found the problem. Not sure of your location but if you are under a "Shelter in Place" order it likely helped to fill in time. Nothing that soldering and heat shrink tubing can't fix.

Offline KoReynolds

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2020, 05:22:57 PM »
Good job, have to be persistent, always amazing to see how some people fix things

Offline pmfman

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Re: Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2020, 05:17:34 PM »
I had a similar problem and it turned out that one of the bulbs was working fine, but the contacts on the actual bulb mushroomed together which shorted 2 circuits together
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