45 Guests, 0 Users

Author Topic: Bottom end work  (Read 4870 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rramjet

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • FeedBack: +3/-0
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 1
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter
Bottom end work
« on: February 28, 2014, 09:48:37 PM »
Anyone ever do any bottom end work on a 2000 with the engine in the car? Is it possible to lift the engine high enough, (assuming exhaust disconnected and probably hood and radiator removed), to get the pan off?

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2014, 01:39:03 AM »
I'd have to pass there, any time I wanted to go in there was enough issue to remove the engine. I would anyway except for the most minor of issues.

Offline Srt

  • Original Pangra Master Builder
  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1338
  • FeedBack: +100/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Pinto Stampede ROCKS

  • Total Badges: 10
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter Linux User Mobile User Windows User 1000 Posts Fifth year Anniversary Photographer
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 04:05:44 AM »
Anyone ever do any bottom end work on a 2000 with the engine in the car? Is it possible to lift the engine high enough, (assuming exhaust disconnected and probably hood and radiator removed), to get the pan off?


it can be done.  no need to remove the hood or radiator  (unless you want to)


disconnect the battery & remove the key!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

disconnect the upper / lower radiator hoses (obviously drain the cooling system) remove the nuts from the bottom of the motor mounts.


using a piece of wood under the oil pan, with your floor jack raise the motor just enough to make the lower studs on the motor mounts clear the frame bracket. 


then slowly lower the motor and the lower motor mount studs will (if not real old & sloppy) come to rest on the frame mount but NOT in the frame mount hole.


if the studs come to rest on the top of the frame mount then pull all the pan bolts and pry away from the block.  allow the pan to drop & rest on the steering rack / crossmember.


with the pan down you will be able to access the oil pump mounting bolts. there are two of them.  you will need to remove them, then drop the pump into the sump of the oil pan.  once this is done pull the pan forward and down and do what you need to do!


there is a special tool that you will need to get to remove the oil pump mounting bolts.  snap on has them so i am sure others do also. 


ONE CAUTION: as new early 2.0 motors had a retaining device on the oil pump/distributor drive shaft that would prevent the shaft from dropping into the pan upon removal of the pump.  IF yours doesn't have this retaining clip then PLEASE remember to ensure that the drive shaft is STILL in place when you go to button it all up!!!!!


in the past i have done this many times and it never failed. if you have an automatic trans car there may be a bit more work to do.


go slow! scope it out. make sure you have all the tools ahead of time. think twice, "do" once!
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline 74 PintoWagon

  • Pinto Sr. Master
  • ******
  • Posts: 3105
  • FeedBack: +540/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 06:52:14 AM »
Well, can't speak for earlier years but I look at mine and it would be easier/quicker to just yank the motor, sure beats the hassle of working under the car that's getting very old,LOL.. :( :D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline rramjet

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • FeedBack: +3/-0
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 1
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 10:31:02 AM »

it can be done.  no need to remove the hood or radiator  (unless you want to)


disconnect the battery & remove the key!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

disconnect the upper / lower radiator hoses (obviously drain the cooling system) remove the nuts from the bottom of the motor mounts.


using a piece of wood under the oil pan, with your floor jack raise the motor just enough to make the lower studs on the motor mounts clear the frame bracket. 


then slowly lower the motor and the lower motor mount studs will (if not real old & sloppy) come to rest on the frame mount but NOT in the frame mount hole.


if the studs come to rest on the top of the frame mount then pull all the pan bolts and pry away from the block.  allow the pan to drop & rest on the steering rack / crossmember.


with the pan down you will be able to access the oil pump mounting bolts. there are two of them.  you will need to remove them, then drop the pump into the sump of the oil pan.  once this is done pull the pan forward and down and do what you need to do!


there is a special tool that you will need to get to remove the oil pump mounting bolts.  snap on has them so i am sure others do also. 


ONE CAUTION: as new early 2.0 motors had a retaining device on the oil pump/distributor drive shaft that would prevent the shaft from dropping into the pan upon removal of the pump.  IF yours doesn't have this retaining clip then PLEASE remember to ensure that the drive shaft is STILL in place when you go to button it all up!!!!!


in the past i have done this many times and it never failed. if you have an automatic trans car there may be a bit more work to do.


go slow! scope it out. make sure you have all the tools ahead of time. think twice, "do" once!

Thanks for the great detail. Plan on doing it on a lift if I go this route.

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 10:14:43 PM »
I'd pull LIGHTLY on the oil pump driveshaft, if you pop the clip off by pulling too hard, you'll never find it until it goes through a bearing. Pull just light enough to ascertain it has a clip on it.

Offline Srt

  • Original Pangra Master Builder
  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1338
  • FeedBack: +100/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Pinto Stampede ROCKS

  • Total Badges: 10
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter Linux User Mobile User Windows User 1000 Posts Fifth year Anniversary Photographer
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2014, 04:17:29 AM »
if you can get it on a lift that's a real good thing.  necessity dictated my learning curve years back!


and speaking of backs, mine is shot after years of leaning over fenders!!!


if you can lift it then by all means do it.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline pintoguy76

  • Pinto Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • FeedBack: +11/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 7
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Mobile User Poll Voter Tenth year Anniversary Windows User Fifth year Anniversary
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 09:36:55 PM »
I wouldnt mess with it. Its an hours work to yank the engine out and you can even take the transmission with it if you like. Thats how I do it...no need to work under the car for hours and hours with limited visibility and less clean environments.
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed
 
1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E

Offline Srt

  • Original Pangra Master Builder
  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1338
  • FeedBack: +100/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Pinto Stampede ROCKS

  • Total Badges: 10
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter Linux User Mobile User Windows User 1000 Posts Fifth year Anniversary Photographer
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2014, 03:17:16 AM »
what is it that you need to do ?
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2014, 03:31:29 AM »
Yes, the answer determines the method there......... ..........

RSM

  • Guest
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 02:33:53 PM »
I've pulled a 2.0 out, tore it down, honed the cylinders, installed new rings and rod bearings, put it back together, reinstalled it and was driving it in less than 8 hours. Doesn't make sense to go thru the hassle of dropping a pan and working on your back unless you don't have a way to pull the engine.

Offline jeremysdad

  • Pinto Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 405
  • FeedBack: +83/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Restoring a Daily Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Fifth year Anniversary Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2014, 03:34:11 PM »
Pull the motor. Put it on a stand. Do the work you're needing to do. Thank yourself when you're not redoing it in 400 miles cause grit and grime found their way into somewhere they shouldn't have been.

:) Also a good time for painting, cleaning of the engine bay, and generally improving things you never noticed were wrong/not to your liking. Take the extra time to do it right once. You'll thank yourself later. :)

Getting ready to do this myself to replace my flexplate once the weather gets warm (and stays that way lol). Will also be doing gaskets on the bottom end, possible transmission rebuild, sheet metal patching, etc. Quicker and easier to just do it once and be done with it. :)

Ymmv. :)

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2014, 12:56:10 AM »
Yes, and why you pull it. Getting the oil to quit dripping in your face and getting the work done while keeping it clean to avoid damage, and lastly keeping surfaces clean and dry from oil rolling around edges to spoil your pan gasket sealing are good reasons to yank the motor, to me anyway. When you get older your neck will thank you for it too.

Offline rramjet

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • FeedBack: +3/-0
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 1
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2014, 12:41:29 PM »
I was thinking about a quickie fix for a noisy rod bearing, (only makes noise over 45 mph), and was going to do it on a lift. I use the car pretty regularly, (below 45 mph) and didn't want to tie it up with the engine out. Another option is picking up a rebuildable 2.0 and put an overhaul kit in but 2.0's are hard to find.

Now seriously considering stuffing a 5.0/C4 in it.

The car is just a beat around for our Winter home in AZ but I've kinda grown fond of it.

RSM

  • Guest
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2014, 03:37:15 PM »
Where is your winter home at? I'm west of Phoenix about 30 miles....not quite east LA lol. Usually a rod bearing makes noise all the time and they don't last long once they start. Have you had anyone else listen to the noise? It could possible be a wrist pin?.....

Offline rramjet

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • FeedBack: +3/-0
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 1
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2014, 04:31:32 PM »
I'm in East Mesa in an adult park.

I'm sure it's a rod. Started after I rebuilt the head with new cam and kit and hardened exhaust seats. Had no noise before that for 3K miles but ran crappy. Now runs very nice except for the rattle sometimes on start-up and anything over about 45 mph. Interestingly it still carries 55 lbs of oil pressure and 175 temp.

Running 20/50W oil with a can of STP. Thinking about stepping up to straight 50W with some STP and see if I can go a little faster. :D

RSM

  • Guest
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 11:54:22 PM »
You might have a detonation problem too. Like I said, rod bearings don't last long once they start going and they will make noise all the time. But...crazier things have happened lol. Was there a lot of carbon on top of the pistons when you pulled the head off?

Offline rramjet

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • FeedBack: +3/-0
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 1
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2014, 01:06:44 AM »
No carbon in the cylinders when I pulled the head. It's not a preignition knock, I know what that sounds like. I would love for it to be something other than a rod but even if it was it's deep enough that I have to get into the engine to fix it.

I have had a "professional" mechanic listen to it and he agrees that it's rod.

RSM

  • Guest
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2014, 01:21:02 AM »
If you can find a builder thats the easiest route to take. Build a short block and swap it out in a day.

Offline Srt

  • Original Pangra Master Builder
  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1338
  • FeedBack: +100/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Pinto Stampede ROCKS

  • Total Badges: 10
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter Linux User Mobile User Windows User 1000 Posts Fifth year Anniversary Photographer
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2014, 02:57:30 AM »
does the 'rattle' become noticeable when you are cruising at a single sustained speed (no load)?


may be piston slap that you are hearing.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline rramjet

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • FeedBack: +3/-0
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 1
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2014, 02:58:25 PM »
No knock at a constant load/speed only when accelerating or decelerating around the 45 mph point and higher.

Offline jeremysdad

  • Pinto Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 405
  • FeedBack: +83/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Restoring a Daily Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Fifth year Anniversary Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2014, 03:37:25 PM »
This is exactly what I heard! Rattled on the way up, and on the way down.

Then I found my alternator bracket (upper) was broken!

Don't overlook the (sometimes too much so) in-your-face obvious! :D lol

Offline rramjet

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • FeedBack: +3/-0
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 1
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2014, 09:36:27 PM »
Yea I've looked everything over pretty well. I think the primary give away is the deeeeep rattle on start up till there is oil pressure. I can keep that pretty quiet by starting it without setting the choke and trying to start on part throttle. That can be tricky. Flooded it one time trying to do that. It's the higher rpm of the fast idle setting that brings it on. This thing starts on the first revolution with the choke set.

It's going to get a 6 month rest on jack stands pretty soon because we are heading back to our Summer location.

I use it twice a week for one of my hobbies so been reluctant to set it down to pull the engine. Best bet is probably to find a short block and go through it but they are getting a little rare.

RSM

  • Guest
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2014, 10:19:45 PM »
When you get back from your summer home and get started on fixing it, let me know, I'll swing by and give ya a hand, just hit me up. I miss working on Pinto's.

Offline rramjet

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • FeedBack: +3/-0
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 1
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter
Re: Bottom end work
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2014, 10:39:00 PM »
Sounds great. See ya in late October.