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Author Topic: Best engine and 5 speed trans mount-ups  (Read 2556 times)

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Offline tyanite

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Best engine and 5 speed trans mount-ups
« on: March 01, 2013, 06:00:40 PM »
I'm glad to be joining this forum, and hope I'm asking the question in the right place.


I'm hoping to select a carburetted pinto (I know it goes by many names) engine and mount a 5 speed transmission. 

*What's your all time favorite, strongest and most reliable year of engine and which car did it come from? 

*What's the best and hopefully the easiest 5 speed to mount to the engine and what car did it come from?


It will be in a custom frame.  This is a high fuel mileage project for a light tube frame crew cab truck.  No original car body parts will be used, except that I will select doors and the door frame from another vehicle.  It is too hard to build doors, windows, etc.


There are lots of mods I want to do to the engine, and any extras or suggestions would be great. 
Mods:

*Mill the head to raise compression to the maximum reasonable limit.  What's the max reasonable compression?
*Port and polish the heads and intake
*Best head gasket?
*Do you suggest a timing chain or gear drive?
*I plan to use a 1 bbl carb.  What suggestions might you have; or are there any reservations about a 1 bbl?
*I have to add Air conditioning (I live in the desert southwest)  Any suggestions?
*I want to use a 2.73 ratio rear end for max highway miles
*I'm thinking about using a supercharger (Thunderbird, perhaps?) or turbo.  Do's and dont's?
*I plan to add some extra rotating mass to the front of the engine, another modest flywheel to preserve angular momentum built by the engine. An air-cooled VW guru had success with this.
*What about cam suggestions for a high mileage car but with enough power to pull a reasonably long uphill grade?
*Do you have suggestions for a special or high powered coil?
*Any other mods or suggestions?

Thanks very kindly in advance.

Tyanite (tie-uh-nite)

Offline dga57

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Re: Best engine and 5 speed trans mount-ups
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 07:39:08 PM »
WELCOME  tyanite!
 
Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Online Wittsend

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Re: Best engine and 5 speed trans mount-ups
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 10:04:15 PM »
Hello, you are very polite and seem to have much enthusiasm. Still, I struggle to grasp your project as some parts seem to to contradict themselves. Regardless I'll try and fill you in as best I can.

*What's your all time favorite, strongest and most reliable year of engine and which car did it come from?

The Pinto came with four different engines.  A push rod 1600 made in England, an OHC 2000 made in Germany, an OHC 2300 made in the USA  and a push rod V-6 (2600/2800) I believe also made in Germany.  The year doesn't matter much (especially since you indicate modifications). All were carburetor engines.

*What's the best and hopefully the easiest 5 speed to mount to the engine and what car did it come from?

There are basically two 5 speeds. One from the Murkur (least desirable) and one from the Mustangs/Turbo Coupes. I believe the Turbo Coupe is the most desirable. These I know fit the 2300 and with modifications the 2000. I don't know about the other engines


It will be in a custom frame.  This is a high fuel mileage project for a light tube frame crew cab truck.  No original car body parts will be used, except that I will select doors and the door frame from another vehicle.  It is too hard to build doors, windows, etc.

Now this really confuses me. I just can't envision this.


There are lots of mods I want to do to the engine, and any extras or suggestions would be great.
Mods:

*Mill the head to raise compression to the maximum reasonable limit.  What's the max reasonable compression?

Reasonable compression based on what??? Fuel grade is a factor. You mention Turbos and Superchargers and they require a lower than stock compression ratio.

*Port and polish the heads and intake

While this can be an advantage it must be done right. With you high mileage goal, larger port will likely reduce you mileage.

*Best head gasket?

Depends on the engine.

*Do you suggest a timing chain or gear drive?

The 2000 and 2300 are belt drive.  The 1600 and 2600/2800 likely are chain drive.


*I plan to use a 1 bbl carb.  What suggestions might you have; or are there any reservations about a 1 bbl?

A 1 bbl carburetor is likely not the way to go.  At the least a progressive 2 bbl would be more beneficial.

*I have to add Air conditioning (I live in the desert southwest)  Any suggestions?

Air conditioning will not help your mileage goal.

*I want to use a 2.73 ratio rear end for max highway miles

While this ratio will lower engine RPM's it might also place an unwanted load on the engine that will lessen, not increase the mileage.

*I'm thinking about using a supercharger (Thunderbird, perhaps?) or turbo.  Do's and dont's?

Again if your goal is high mileage the forced air of a supercharger or turbo will not help.  There is no ready made supercharger kit for any of these engines (that I am aware of).  Some of the 2300 Mustangs and the Turbo Coupes came with turbos.  These were all fuel injected not carburetor type.

*I plan to add some extra rotating mass to the front of the engine, another modest flywheel to preserve angular momentum built by the engine. An air-cooled VW guru had success with this.

Again, I'm just not grasping this.

*What about cam suggestions for a high mileage car but with enough power to pull a reasonably long uphill grade?

Nothing that will make power in the high RPM range.  You probably want a cam that works best in the 1,500-4,000 RPM range.

*Do you have suggestions for a special or high powered coil?

There are many. Take your pick.

*Any other mods or suggestions?

It is hard to make any suggestions.  This project seems to contradict itself at many points.  I wish you the best, but frankly I would rethink the concept.

Thanks very kindly in advance.

Tyanite (tie-uh-nite)

Offline tyanite

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Re: Best engine and 5 speed trans mount-ups
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2013, 03:17:16 PM »
Thanks very much, Wittsend, for your comments.  Reading your responses to my questions, I see you know a lot more than I do about each item.  I will rethink, based on your input.  My hope is to research as much as possible and go in with solid ideas.  Your comments helped tremendously.  I hope to clarify things here.

Porting and polishing.  Yes, I can see where porting too much would reduce mileage.

Good point on turbos and superchargers.  I had the same thing in the back of my mind.  You need rpms, especially with turbos, to make more power (and turbos requiring less  compression).  You're right, what I need is not rpms, but low-end torque.

Looks like I'll be seeking out the OHC 2300 and the 5 speed from a Turbo Coupe.  I'm glad all were carb engines.  I can actually work on them and it's not terribly expensive.

The tube frame, crew cab truck is a very unusual idea, I admit.  The thing is, I can control the weight, width, length, balance and aerodynamics.  If it was absolutely necessary, I could make doors and borrow some windows from another vehicle.  I can't make glass.  A 'for instance' is my Kelmark GT kit car, inspired by Ferrari Dino.  It uses Pinto door and window mechanisms and windows.  It also uses a Pinto windshield.

It is an odd application.  I'm looking to make a highway vehicle to suit my needs.  My trips between states here in the southwest is 540 miles each direction.  Gas gets awfully expensive considering these distances.  A few percent gain in efficiency over these long distance add up to decreased costs.  Occasionally, I need to haul light but oddly shaped furniture, appliances, etc.  A station wagon or minivan is not quite right for the job; it has to have a truck bed.  Also, lots of interior room is needed. 

My old Geo gets 46 mpg, but it doesn't haul much.  It did do a full size recliner without propping open the hatch.

I need to meet the aforementioned specs while maximizing economy.  I think I can get far more mileage and build this truck much cheaper than buying a crew cab truck.  In addition to being very pricey, they guzzle the gas.
 
I don't need to accelerate fast at all.  One highway; straight shot.  I just need good top end economy and to deal moderately well with slight uphill grades.  Cruising around 75 to 80 would be great, although I know the law of decreasing returns kicks in when speed is pitted against mileage.  No off-roading is needed, so the vehicle can have a lower stance.  It could stand like a car.  Being lower to the ground improves aerodynamics. 

About rotating mass.  When cruising, more rotating mass/angular momentum will preserve the energy from each piston stroke and can enable you to very temporarily store that power in the form of angular momentum - and then draw upon it.  I learned this first hand in India from watching a building crew use a weak, old single cylinder engine for a pile driver.  Once the engine got going, the little horsepower and torque it had was preserved in the flywheel and kept elevating that pile-driver until drop time.  If you're familiar with hyper-mile fuel saving techniques, this helps with the pulse on/off technique, which means you're on the pedal then off the pedal - pulse with a little gas and glide using your built momentum. When accelerating, it takes more energy to get all of that mass moving.  It is a double-edged sword.  I only need steady highway speeds over long hours.  Acceleration and deceleration will hopefully be very infrequent.

I can see where the progressive 2bbl would be a good choice.  I do have a Weber 32/36 lying around.  It fits a great, great number of intakes.  Let's hope it fits a Ford intake for the 2300.

Air conditioning, unfortunately, is a must.  My destination city is above 115 degrees in summer.  Temps in my portion of the Mohave Desert exceed Phoenix or Vegas temperatures.  Temps on the other end of my route reach below freezing.

Good thoughts on the cam.  You're right about the power range.

Good thoughts on the rear end ratio.  What ratio might you suggest?

And about compression:  My thought was a stronger bang for each compression cycle to increase efficiency.  Does that idea have merit now that I've dropped the turbo or supercharge idea?  What I was asking was regarding a maximum reasonable compression level that won't keep me blowing the head gaskets all the time.  The idea is to increase compression to eek out more power, but still allow for a good engine life.

Your suggestions helped clarify things.  I hope my reply helps clear up some things.  Do you have other suggestions?  Open to suggestions from all.

Deep Appreciation,

Tyanite

Offline lateniteauto

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Re: Best engine and 5 speed trans mount-ups
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 10:57:28 PM »
high compression: 10.5 to one is a good target for premium pump gas. needs a better cooling system.
 
port and polish only the exhaust ports on the stock head, only polish the cast marks on the intake ports. keeping the intake ports smaller will increase velosity of the fresh incoming air/fuel mixture. having the exhaust work done will clean the cylinder of burnt air/fuel better, making your engine more efficeint.
 
a rv style cam: big torque down low, wont have to down shift as often
 
two barrel carb: smaller is better for torque
 
good combo for good fuel mileage in my opinion.

Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: Best engine and 5 speed trans mount-ups
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 12:55:30 PM »
 My old camaro had a RV camshaft in it. I always thought it was because it was a higher lift that they used it. What is different about rv camshafts? Is it the lobe seperation?