Author Topic: Another '74 Bites The Dust? (Read 11882 times)

r4pinto · « **Reply #30 on:** January 13, 2013, 06:38:38 PM »

Thank my Dad..

He thought of it from his days of fixing the Pintos my Mom owned & then the family wagon lol. Prolly also good to look at the cam timing since it could have skipped a few teeth & is now out of time.

78txpony · « **Reply #31 on:** January 13, 2013, 07:30:30 PM »

Was the timing belt tight? I once had a cheapie on mine which stretched and it jumped a tooth or so, just enough for it to die, but still show spark, fuel, and compression. Ironically that happened on 2-29-2000...

Also on my car I can pull the coil wire off, crank it and a spark will leap from the tower to the fender - easily seen from the drivers seat. Of course mine has the higher output ignition system, but it could work on yours. Or pop the coil wire from the disty and place it near a metal bolt or such where you can see it.
You are pretty certain you have fuel, now you need to confirm you have spark.

Hope you get it running soon!

blupinto · « **Reply #32 on:** January 13, 2013, 08:23:10 PM »

Thank you Matty (and your Dad) and Rob! I'm not brave enough to do the spark thing yet, but here's a question: the belt on this car looks and feels fairly new. With my fingers I can pull on it and to me it feels a tad stretched. Here's the question: How do I determine the right tension or tightness on the belt? I know where the belt tensioner is, but what point can I tighten it and call it good? I don't know if it's a cheapy belt, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it was.

ToniJ1960 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 13, 2013, 08:36:36 PM »

Im wondering if some water gut into the carb passages if theres water in the tank. But I think the first thing is to check for spark, get someone o help you I guess Im always afraid of doing that too. I read on electronic ignition cars you shouldnt but I think yours is apoints car isnt it?

Checking at the coil would tell you if the spark is there but I think it would be better to check at a couple of spark plug wires. Then y ou know the distributor is turning and everything there is good if more than one sparks. The next thing I would do then is hook up a vacuum gauge to the intake manifold vacuum (pull of the brake booster hose if it has power brakes and connect to it) check the cranking vacuum.

Then the next thing may be to pull out a plug and see if theres any fuel smell in the cylinder after you crank it a bit. I never tried this but if its impractical I guess someone will let me know.

blupinto · « **Reply #34 on:** January 13, 2013, 09:37:08 PM »

Thank you, Toni yes it's a points car. I will enlist my mechanic neighbor to help me on this. First I'll pull the distributor cap and see what I can see (if there's anything I can see). I can understand water getting to the carb from the gas tank- I think that's why she's surged in the past- more so when the gas tank is less than half- full.

I'm not sure what the brake booster hose looks like.

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #35 on:** January 13, 2013, 10:13:03 PM »

Quote from: blupinto on January 13, 2013, 09:37:08 PM

Thank you, Toni yes it's a points car.

I didn't realize you had points. This could be as simple as the condenser failing. It's on the outside of the distributor. Quick fix & only a few bucks.

ToniJ1960 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 13, 2013, 10:23:54 PM »

Quote from: blupinto on January 13, 2013, 09:37:08 PM

Thank you, Toni yes it's a points car. I will enlist my mechanic neighbor to help me on this. First I'll pull the distributor cap and see what I can see (if there's anything I can see). I can understand water getting to the carb from the gas tank- I think that's why she's surged in the past- more so when the gas tank is less than half- full.

I'm not sure what the brake booster hose looks like.

If your car has power brakes that hose is easy to find look for the brake booster and youll see a good sized hose plugged into it. You can get a fitting for a vacuum gauge thats cone shaped ( I think my vacuum gauge came with a bunch of fittings and it was only $12)and plugs right into the hose once you pull it off the elbow that goes into the booster. Or else you can sometimes find a hose coming from the intake you can hijack to test the vacuum. Cranking vacuum will be a lot lower than normal engine vacuum but I think 6 or 7 inches of vacuum should should be about r ight.

ToniJ1960 · « **Reply #37 on:** January 13, 2013, 10:46:02 PM »

this site shows a picture of a brake booster and its location. Its really close to the one in a pinto even the elbow piece the hose connects to it looks so close youll know it right away.

78txpony · « **Reply #38 on:** January 14, 2013, 09:04:40 PM »

It should have little deflection when depressed with a light finger. With some effort on that finger you might have about 1/4" movement. You should try to see if the timing marks all line up. But first, you should confirm IF you are getting a spark from the coil.
Do not attempt to tighten that belt until you confirm if you can get a spark or not. Otherwise you will be wasting time, as you will need to remove the belt enough to get it back into time.

Quote from: blupinto on January 13, 2013, 08:23:10 PM

the belt on this car looks and feels fairly new. With my fingers I can pull on it and to me it feels a tad stretched. Here's the question: How do I determine the right tension or tightness on the belt? I know where the belt tensioner is, but what point can I tighten it and call it good? I don't know if it's a cheapy belt, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it was.

blupinto · « **Reply #39 on:** January 20, 2013, 01:47:02 PM »

Yesterday was a banner day for me, mechanic-wise. With the help of a dear friend who's on this site I learned how to adjust points and look for spark. To normal gearheads this is child's play, but no one ever taught me how to do that. Reading a manual doesn't always work. I am kind of proud of myself.

Ok enough about me. So far these are the things replaced since Moxie crapped out on me a couple weeks ago:

Spark plugs
Spark plug wires
Coil
Fuel Filter
Points
Condenser
Distributor cap
Rotor

With my friend's help via telephone, I learned how to hook up a remote starter button so I can check spark and see if rotor works as well as other stuff. At one point I wasable to get Moxie started and running at idle for a few minutes. I played with the throttle linkage a couple times too. Only when I got in the car and pressed the accelerator did she falter and stall, reluctant to stat again. We got her running twice, but pressing the accelerator pedal killed her twice. Today, with Rich's help, I am going to try an idea of his... a gallon of fresh gas to the carburetor via the fuel pump. I still have 3/4 of a tank of gas in that car. Now I'm wondering if it's a throttle issue because she quit after I pressed the accelerator down a little (to the point of the engine slowly racing). This is also basically what I did when she faltered and died. Maybe fuel pump failure. $:-\$

r4pinto · « **Reply #40 on:** January 20, 2013, 02:07:35 PM »

This sounds oh, so similar to the issue I had in 2006 with my 77 Pinto. Turns out the carb was full of junk from the tank & needed cleaned out. That could possibly explain the starvation you seem to be experiencing

blupinto · « **Reply #41 on:** January 21, 2013, 01:23:00 PM »

Hmmmm....... well....

The new points didn't work, and I ended up reinstalling her old distributor innards to get spark. The new coil stays. Those of you all who said it was likely a fuel starvation issue were pretty right on the mark. Wait til you see what came out of the fuel line when I removed it from the fuel pump... (picture to come)

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #42 on:** January 21, 2013, 02:32:30 PM »

I covered fuel, spark & timing so I can't claim clairvoyance lol

blupinto · « **Reply #43 on:** January 21, 2013, 03:55:23 PM »

lol well the coil (the old one) had oil coming out of it. That HAD to be replaced.

I had taken the old line off the fuel pump and got a gallon of gas and she ran on that til she ran the can dry! I hooked the new line to the gas supply line and started her up. She started without a hitch and idled for several minutes. I'm having a vehicle crisis here as I have now 5 cars and none I can take to work tomorrow.

I rolled the blue Squire out of the driveway, put her in 1st gear and somehow let her stall. Now I can't start her again and even with starting fluid she won't start. I spent two days working on the ignition and now I'm very frustrated.

johnbigman2011 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:21:13 PM »

I'm leaning toward fuel issues Becky. Try the jug of gas again.

r4pinto · « **Reply #45 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:32:15 PM »

I'm with johnbigman2011 . it sounds like more junk got sucked into the line. Out of curiosity have you changed the fuel filter? Didn't know if you mentioned it or not.

blupinto · « **Reply #46 on:** January 21, 2013, 05:56:46 PM »

Not only am I getting fuel to the carb (yes there is literally junk in the tank) but it's not even starting with starting fluid. If it's merely a fuel issue the starting fluid would at least let me start the car... Also, when I press the accelerator down (the car was hot when I did this) I could smell fresh gas.

Yes (for what I feel is the zillionth time lol) it has a new fuel filter.

r4pinto · « **Reply #47 on:** January 21, 2013, 06:13:17 PM »

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm m..... sound like no sparky spark. I'd pull the plugs & see if they are fouled out & go from there. Maybe the ignition system went wonky on you

78txpony · « **Reply #48 on:** January 21, 2013, 09:02:02 PM »

Quote from: blupinto on January 21, 2013, 05:56:46 PM

. Also, when I press the accelerator down (the car was hot when I did this) I could smell fresh gas.

If you pumped the pedal when the engine was stopped yet hot, it could have gotten flooded. Mine is touchy about that. Hold the pedal down and crank to clear it out.
The carb should probably be cleaned out internally, along with your gas tank and fuel lines. If the filter sock in the tank could also clog up while the engine runs, it will die, then some of the crap falls from the sock, allowing restarting, then sucking it back on again......... ....

blupinto · « **Reply #49 on:** January 21, 2013, 09:05:39 PM »

Yes apparently it is the ignition going wonky. It seems every time there was no spark I would go into the distributor and I'm noticing the points get closer than what I'm setting them at (.025) so I readjust AGAIN and then check the points for spark (yes) then check the dummy spark plug I put on the #1 spark plug wire and crank engine (yes spark). Then I replace the wire back on the new spark plug and crank the engine (we have ignition!) When I placed the air cleaner housing in its normal spot the engine stalled, not wanting to start again. Putting starting fluid and even a tad of gas didn't get anywhere. Ooookay take off the distributor cap off AGAIN and repeat the process. I tightened the points mounting screws as tight as I humanly can without messing up the heads and repeated the rest. Made sure coil wire is secure on both distributor and coil (in an effort to figure out what the heck is going on I swapped out the new coil wire for the old one) checked for spark... yep... cranked the engine again... we got ignition without starting fluid or gas. I kept her idling because the battery took a beating this weekend. lol Something's loosey-goosey here. Has anyone here had this kind of issue? My friend Rich and I have been scratching-no BEATING- our heads on this.

Ok here's what came out of the fuel line yesterday when I removed the fuel line from the pump. $:-\$

What's wrong with people!? This is, I believe, part of a mylar or mylar-like candy or snack wrapper. There's a dime to show the size of this scrap of rubbish. I knew there was crap in the gas tank but this is ridiculous!

johnbigman2011 · « **Reply #50 on:** January 21, 2013, 09:10:58 PM »

Becky I think you better drop the tank.

Just hope it wasn't a snicker bar dropped in there.

Might be peanuts stuck in the fuel line next.

blupinto · « **Reply #51 on:** January 21, 2013, 09:34:10 PM »

Hi Rob mine's funny like that too... but in this case there's also a spark issue. Even after I let the car cool off and any excess gas or fluid evaporate for a couple hours it wouldn't start even with the spritz of starting fluid (ether). After the car would stall I would check for spark (nope) and do the dummy (old) spark plug test to see if there's spark there (nope... not til I fiddle with the distributor and its innards and the coil wire (yes put the probe on both positive and negative posts on the coil- the probe lights up on both and stays on but slightly dimmer when I crank engine and have probe (tester) on the negative coil post.

blupinto · « **Reply #52 on:** January 21, 2013, 09:39:05 PM »

Hi John yes I know I need to drop the tank... should've done it at the get-go. The thing is, the tank is 3/4 full right now. I need to use up most of that gas before I take the tank down. I know I'm asking for trouble but I'd just as soon use the gas the way it's supposed to be used to get where I need to be. With the vet bills, two unexpected battery purchases and other expenses I'm broke, so I can't just drain the gas (even if I physically could). Aaaah the allure of cranky old cars... lol

johnbigman2011 · « **Reply #53 on:** January 21, 2013, 09:56:17 PM »

Becky, they sale hand siphons, so you could save the gas. I just don't want you to have more problems down the line. Candy wrappers in the tank could cause major issues.

blupinto · « **Reply #54 on:** January 21, 2013, 10:25:31 PM »

I know it, John... but I'm out of $$$.

r4pinto · « **Reply #55 on:** January 21, 2013, 10:39:36 PM »

You know what I think Becky?? No?

Well, too bad cuz I'm gonna tell you.... I think you should drain all the gas all over the ground and watch all your money go up in flames....

Nah, just kidding here. I know you're doing what you can with the resources you have & will get through it one issue at a time. Hopefully there isn't any more garbage tossed in the tank. I would hate to see anything else plug up the line & leave you stranded. As for the car I'm sure you'll figure it out. Once you have some extra cash one thing that would be a big help to both you & the car would be one of those retrofit kits that eliminate the points entirely. I think Dave (dave1987) and Brian (cookieboy) have both used something like that on their early model Pintos & from what I remember hearing it helped the ignition system, as well as vehicle driveability.

Srt · « **Reply #56 on:** January 22, 2013, 03:25:13 AM »

IIRC doesn't the plate that the points fasten to have a ground strap?

blupinto · « **Reply #57 on:** January 22, 2013, 07:01:24 PM »

Srt yes it dies. It looks like a woven ribbon of wire. The one on Moxie is intact and has no deposits that I can see.

On a side note... I went to start her this morning... and she acted like her battery wasn't connected. Not even a click did I hear... and the usual instrument cluster lights didn't come on either. When I got home from work I went to start her... the lights came on and she started right up and she idled for awhile til I shut her off. I restarted her and she fired right up again. I swear my cars are messing with me.

Thank you Matty. As for the garbage I'm sure there's more. Who would've thunk that someone would stick trash into a gas tank... well, at least it won't be my first time taking off a gas tank.

johnbigman2011 · « **Reply #58 on:** January 22, 2013, 07:11:03 PM »

You can do it Becky... We all have faith in you.

r4pinto · « **Reply #59 on:** January 22, 2013, 07:47:05 PM »

Quote from: blupinto on January 22, 2013, 07:01:24 PM

Srt yes it dies. It looks like a woven ribbon of wire. The one on Moxie is intact and has no deposits that I can see.

On a side note... I went to start her this morning... and she acted like her battery wasn't connected. Not even a click did I hear... and the usual instrument cluster lights didn't come on either. When I got home from work I went to start her... the lights came on and she started right up and she idled for awhile til I shut her off. I restarted her and she fired right up again. I swear my cars are messing with me.

Thank you Matty. As for the garbage I'm sure there's more. Who would've thunk that someone would stick trash into a gas tank... well, at least it won't be my first time taking off a gas tank.

Haha ain't that the truth. Hopefully there isn't too much more trash in there and you can have something to drive to work. Sounds like your car has gremlins. Time to fix that lol

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Author Topic: Another '74 Bites The Dust? (Read 11882 times)