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Offline RICH73PINTOV8

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ALIGNMENT
« on: July 06, 2014, 08:12:10 PM »
WHAT ARE THE ALIGNMENT SPECS YOU ARE SETTING YOUR PINTO TO? THANKS RICH
1973 pinto 302 ci

2013 can am renegade 1000cc
2011 victory cross roads 1700cc
2011 ski doo renegade 1200cc

Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2014, 08:16:03 PM »
You need the tools to do the adjustment. Look in the factory service manual for your year. The tools and manual show up at EBay.com from time to time...And no I really doubt that your local service center has the tools...

Offline amc49

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2014, 12:03:35 AM »
Camber at zero to match rear axle, toe 1/8" in max total both sides added together and as much caster as I can get with both the same, I line my own using measuring tape, level, angle finder, and string, as all my other cars, have never paid ever for alignment. I then custom set the ties to average all the most common run highways as far as road crown. I use no specialty tools at all but a bit of hunt and seek there until zeroed in.

Offline russosborne

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2014, 01:28:05 AM »
What amc49 said. We did basically the same thing in auto shop back in 76. My problem is I haven't done it since.  :-[
Make sure you have the car sitting how it will be driven, and with the wheels and tires you will be driving it on. That much I remember. If you want to get really precise, put weight on the driver's seat to equal your weight.  ;D (only if you are racing, really, or really are anal) ;D
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RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

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Offline Wittsend

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 11:02:23 PM »
Agreed also. The only thing I'll add is that toe should be measured in an angle, not inches.  But, in the end inches are probably more accurate than any angle we can practically measure (how long would that line need to be before they intersected). The next point becomes where do you measure toe? From the rim edge? The tire? The same fractional measurement will mean different angles. Ideally you want to measure at the front/back outer circumference.

  Anyway, I always toiled with these things.  The last time I did toe I made a  bar out of bed frames(angle iron).  It was a length of iron to span the tires (I made it adjustable for different cars) with two perpendicular irons on either end. I then drilled bolt holes set 1/2" apart to adjust for various heights.  Lastly I had a pointed bolt with nuts one either side of the iron to adjust (pics 1 & 2). On the other end I had an eye bolt that was spring loaded (pic 3). The reason for this was so that I could move the adjustable bolt to just touch the rim at the front. Then to get the device around the tire I would pull back on the spring loaded eye bolt to move it past the tire, but because it was spring loaded, it would return to its original point.

  Looking for slight toe in, I did the back first then went to the front. My point of measurement was the vertical rim edge (but not where curb scrapes hit).  It sure beats a tape measure hitting oil pans and suspension parts measuring ambiguous tire tread. 

Here are some pictures.  I wasn't up for struggling it out of the rafters, so I shot the images upside down to hopefully give a better idea of how it can be used.



Offline RICH73PINTOV8

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2014, 08:23:03 PM »
thanks for all the replies, I will be putting it on my alignment machine in next two weeks, thanks rich
1973 pinto 302 ci

2013 can am renegade 1000cc
2011 victory cross roads 1700cc
2011 ski doo renegade 1200cc

Offline amc49

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2014, 09:08:04 PM »
I made close to the same type thing and used for a while, but just simpler to look up front and rear track widths for mental note and comparison, then assume rear axle on RWD is square and then shoot a line to front tires and compare as the line shot passes front tire where it is. Any thing within a 1/16" will work fine, all that computer crap on alignment machine spouting this side off by .1 degree is just that, crap. The rubber parts alone allow for deflection of 1/16"+ from simply sitting still to dynamic and moving. Meaning all the online arguments about this or that setting varying by 1/10 degree are usually bullsh-t.

A little more complex on FWD but still easily doable, I've done 200mph race cars that stayed dead straight doing it, no troubles at all. A laser would make it a bit easier but I haven't seen enough issue to get one yet.

Front to rear tracking (thrust) can be checked pretty easy by finding say a park, dead flat parking lot and run car a few feet to line out straight with steering wheel where it stays on freeway at speed and when lined out then cross a slight water puddle after rain with all four wheels, roll out to dry tires and then go back and look at the front to rear wheel tracking marks laid down by tires. One set should be pretty much centered on the other. A great free tool.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2014, 04:49:37 AM »
You need the tools to do the adjustment. Look in the factory service manual for your year. The tools and manual show up at EBay.com from time to time...And no I really doubt that your local service center has the tools...

I want !
If anyone has a set (?) let me know !
I will buy them !

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Art
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Offline Reeves1

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2014, 09:37:12 PM »
Didn't see any Pinto ones ? Am I missing something ?

Offline amc49

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2014, 03:57:58 AM »
Probably talking about the pointed boss with stud threaded in it to slowly move the caster/camber around, they are adjusted together on these. Top control arm moves outer point forward/backward and in/out from centerline of car at same time when bolt loosened...... .........not strictly necessary but makes it easier.

Offline 82expghost

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2014, 04:22:28 PM »
rotunda T74P-3000A , I believe this is what your looking for, go to ebay
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2014, 07:34:59 PM »
Here's a stupid question but if I take my 73 to Firestone they will be able to align it wont they?
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2014, 10:06:52 PM »
They sure will, but you have to pay for it.. ;D
Art
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2014, 10:14:19 PM »
They sure will, but you have to pay for it.. ;D

That's fine, I was just hoping it wasn't so old they were gonna tell me they have no clue how to do it.
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Offline amc49

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2014, 10:17:23 PM »
The tool not absolutely needed but makes it easier to hold setting points in space while you tighten, they can easily shift while doing so. I used to semi loosen the bolts and then slight taps with hammer to move a bit at a time.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2014, 10:55:24 PM »

That's fine, I was just hoping it wasn't so old they were gonna tell me they have no clue how to do it.
Well, it's not really that old and there's still a lot of them on the road, I bought my new tires at Big O and the guy told me they just rebuilt a front end two weeks before on Pinto, I'm sure Firestone should be able to do it too..
Art
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Offline Reeves1

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2014, 04:34:51 AM »
Or they could do like the local Ford dealer did to me with the swing arm bushings....

Had the service girl go ask the senior mechanic if he could do the job : press out old & install new ones. I supply parts.

Told he said yes & it would take 1 to 1.5 hours & the shop rate is $127.?? / hour.

Go to pock them up & the price is $441.??

Asked to see the manager & he said he was giving me a break as it really took 4 hours, because he had to make a tool to do the job.

I asked him if it crossed his mind to call me before spending my money. Nope.

Only went there because all other places were busy & couldn't do it for weeks.
Other places looked at the parts & told me no problem & it would only take an hour tops.

Not the first time this dealer shafted me though.

Trans service on my 2012 F-350 was quoted $400.00
Wife picked it up for me and they charged $600.00 -----and it was still 2 LTS low on oil !


Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2014, 08:14:12 AM »
If ya want it done "right" ya gotta do it yourself..
Art
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Offline amc49

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2014, 10:46:33 AM »
Yeah, you get no complaints that way, why I've not paid for anything ever.......... ...needing vehicle NOW can be a problem though, but why you have multiple cars to drop back and punt with. Getting harder now though, what I used to do in a day takes 3-4 now. Especially in this heat.

Don't they have any kind of anti-over quote laws there? Like they MUST inform you again if cost rises by more than ten percent? It drives mechs crazy here, Dad was on the phone all the time it seemed when situations changed being as fluid as they are. Everybody says they only want this or that knowing full well whatever system involved is totally dead and needing complete overhaul. Fix it all without that release OK though and you are prime for a lawsuit....... ..........

Much of it is in how you phrase the intended repair, if you just say fix it, you open the doors wide to excessive charges. You gotta put some traps in there for them.

Offline RICH73PINTOV8

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2014, 09:00:48 PM »
ok I set camber to +.1 degrees caster to +3.0 degrees and toe in to .20 degrees  and this cars front end wont handle at all???? very scary to drive?????when you step on gas vers 1 way and let off vers the other way? also all over the road over bumps???? I think the toe is changing way too much when the suspension goes up and down????   any answers? I bought this car with the v8 conversion done the seller said it was the flexible steering shaft between the column and rack&pinnion??????   thanks rich 908-872-2237
1973 pinto 302 ci

2013 can am renegade 1000cc
2011 victory cross roads 1700cc
2011 ski doo renegade 1200cc

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2014, 09:29:28 PM »
What is .20 degrees in inches?, saw these specs in an older thread..

Caster: .5*- to 1*+
Camber: .25*- to 1.25*+
Toe in: 0 to .250"
Art
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Offline Reeves1

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2014, 06:17:03 AM »
Flex cable will not be the problem. Unless damaged ?

Offline dick1172762

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2014, 11:26:14 AM »
What is .20 degrees in inches?, saw these specs in an older thread..

Caster: .5*- to 1*+
Camber: .25*- to 1.25*+
Toe in: 0 to .250"

                   1/5 of a deg ????
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2014, 11:40:57 AM »
Your toe is off. You've got toe out when you should have toe in. Toe out will make the car do strange thing and the faster you go the car will dart from side to side.
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Offline RICH73PINTOV8

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2014, 03:13:32 PM »
WELL I FOUND OUT THAT WHEN THE SUSPENSION GOES UP THE TOE GOES WAY POSITIVE AND WHEN THE SUSPENSION GOES DOWN THE TOE GOES WAY NEGITIVE????/ MABEE THE GEOMETRY OF THE RACK&PINNION ANGLE?    CAMBER AND CASTER STAY GOOD BOTH UP AND DOWN?????//
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2014, 05:40:38 PM »
What is .20 degrees in inches?, saw these specs in an older thread..

13/64th's is as close as I get
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2014, 06:01:34 PM »
Dang, that's almost a half inch that's too much..
Art
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2014, 06:32:05 PM »
Dang, that's almost a half inch that's too much..

Nah, that's under 1/4"
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: ALIGNMENT
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2014, 06:50:03 PM »
1/5 of a deg or 12 minutes.
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