Current Classifieds

1978 ford pinto carb
Date: 02/04/2018 06:09 pm
72 pinto and 88 turbo coupe

Date: 06/09/2016 04:13 am
1980 Ford AM radio
Date: 12/22/2019 11:57 am
72 pinto and 88 turbo coupe

Date: 06/09/2016 04:13 am
Mustang ll/Pinto/Bobcat Aluminum Wheel Rim

Date: 07/20/2018 03:00 pm
Looking for fan shroud for 72' Pinto 1.6
Date: 04/13/2017 04:56 am
1975 Pinto bumpers
Date: 01/20/2018 07:51 pm
1980 Pinto Parts

Date: 08/05/2020 04:20 pm
1974 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon

Date: 05/30/2020 01:51 pm
instrument cluster,4sd trans crossmember,2.3 intake
Date: 08/26/2018 06:23 pm
Selling off many SVO parts/motors etc.

Date: 07/13/2018 02:21 pm
Clutch Pedals for 75to 80 Pinto
Date: 09/21/2018 11:35 am

Author Topic: Fresh Motor Won't Start.  (Read 12185 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2013, 02:43:32 PM »
You don't replace a carb for high idle, that just indicates not smart enough to adjust it out or fix it. No insult intended of course. Several ways of getting that back down.......... .vacuum leak is an obvious one. You should be able to choke carb out to completely kill engine by dropping idle set screw more and more, not having it means something MAYBE wrong with carb but 95% of them are fixable. You have to play the idle mixture screws and idle speed screw against each other.

Hoping you still have original carb on it. Only way they can high idle to not be fixed is throttle shaft leaks from wear and even that can usually be fixed. Of course corrosion from ethanol can cause issues now.

At our shop back in the old days we were known for never buying new carb to fix and customers loved not getting plugged with the huge bills of doing so. In our view the original carb was the one best metered to your motor if stock, any over the counter ones are condensed from the 200-300 different ones used to maybe 50 (don't be surprised if only 25 now!)  part numbers overall and you get shortchanged there for sure. All the while they are telling you how much better the new carb will perform. Ain't no way. Some are close but others are terribly far off, and why we quit pushing new ones back in the day. It got much worse as emissions carbs got so customized to each vehicle and motor. I saw so-called 'absolutely correct carb by number and application' not run at all and then rebuild old one and runs perfect more than once.

Although I've done it no need to cut filter either, the first OC will show you, look at the oil in strong light and you can generally see the 'glitter' in there to make the oil look like liquid gold. Let the oil settle and then pout it off to see what remains. Depending on engine if race or stock, oil changed after 30 minutes running or up to 250 miles. Make the next one after that a little sooner than your norm then go to the norm.

If not driving 20 miles you can drive with open header but any issues past that will be with the police.

Offline From_Jonah

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
  • FeedBack: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Fifth year Anniversary Mobile User Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2013, 03:03:53 PM »
Oh okay. I guess having it off and putting it back on could still cause problems. As far as I know the carb is original. I'll try to check for vacuum problems in a little bit. I went through the PCV system yesterday and got it all straightened out.
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Can’t find her again.)

Offline 74 PintoWagon

  • Pinto Sr. Master
  • ******
  • Posts: 3105
  • FeedBack: +540/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2013, 08:37:04 PM »
What makes you think you need to replace the carb??, it was working good before the re build, right?, might want to go back re check everything, cam/ignition timing, vacuum leak and what ever else you have, lack of power and high idle don't mean the carb is bad, probably just need some tuning.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline From_Jonah

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
  • FeedBack: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Fifth year Anniversary Mobile User Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2013, 10:22:59 PM »
I thought I had needed one before because it would always choke out when I cut it off. Come to think of it though, it never does that now. But I'm trying to work through the little kinks here and there. I got it a little better adjusting the ignition timing. If I turn the throttle adjust screw out though, nothing changes. However, if I pull up on the throttle, it idles at a reasonable speed until I let go. What is and ideal idle speed? Right now it idles close to 1500 rpm. Then again, I may think it's idling too fast because I'm not used to hearing it without exhaust.

1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Can’t find her again.)

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2013, 12:49:34 AM »
'it would always choke out when I cut it off.'

Never heard a description like that in 40 years, what are you trying to say there? ALL motors 'choke out' when you turn them off.

'If I turn the throttle adjust screw out though, nothing changes.'

Not rocket science, bend over and see if the screw is out in space and not touching linkage, obvious that will do nothing but you must make the effort to look. Car won't fix itself.

'if I pull up on the throttle, it idles at a reasonable speed until I let go.'

That has all the earmarks of a not strong enough throttle return spring and a very dangerous condition, don't fix it later, fix it NOW.

You should be able to lower speed with screw to where engine dies or carb not right. Linkage, cable issue, dragging may all be a problem. You always treat not returning to 100% dead idle as a safety issue, enough people have been killed by it in one way or another.

MTX or ATX? Idle should be around 700-900. Lower is better if smooth.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

  • Pinto Sr. Master
  • ******
  • Posts: 3105
  • FeedBack: +540/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2013, 07:10:21 AM »
What he said!!.. Mine idles at 1300 on the fast idle and 600 after it heats up, seems to work ok that way..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline From_Jonah

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
  • FeedBack: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Fifth year Anniversary Mobile User Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2013, 08:28:36 AM »
I mean choke out as in it would sit there and try to keep running but coughs basically and finally die. It doesn't Do that since I rebuilt the motor though. And okay. I'll check the spring when I get home. And also, it never idle down. It just stays at around 1500 even when it's warm.
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Can’t find her again.)

Offline 74 PintoWagon

  • Pinto Sr. Master
  • ******
  • Posts: 3105
  • FeedBack: +540/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2013, 09:00:21 AM »
It tries to keep running because of the high idle, check your linkage maybe it's not coming all the way back, also check your timing a lot of advance will increase idle speed.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2013, 01:41:14 AM »
As he says. You mean 'dieseling' or 'afterrunning', often an indicator the throttle at idle is too far open and you describe that in other ways. You need to do what it takes to get the throttle back on true zero, it is sticking or something holding it slightly open and the cause of your issues.

Poor gas leads to that as well, and why in the mid '70s all these cars started getting the electrical solenoids on the idle. The normal throttle setting to get even 600 was enough to cause afterrun and the solenoid drops lower than normal idle to truly close the throttle and stop it. Why there are TWO settings when you have a solenoid, idle and all the way off. You check them both. Of course does not matter if enough friction in cable or linkage to override the throttle spring to let throttle stick. Sounds like you are there, the statement about being able to force linkage to zero and then speed lowers says so.

Look enough times and you will even see the engine diesel to crank back up and RUN BACKWARDS, seen it plenty of times, the crank is turning the wrong direction..... .......

Offline Pinturbo75

  • Pinto Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 722
  • FeedBack: +26/-0
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 6
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter Windows User Fifth year Anniversary
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2013, 09:09:14 AM »
have you adjusted the choke on this ? that could be one of your issues
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2013, 04:58:03 AM »
As could a bad decel valve if you have one on there and it failed in the necessary way to make high idle.

The being able to lower speed by simply pulling back on linkage says issue there though. Make sure the pressfit where linkage sideplate joins the throttle shaft end is tight, if loose you can often peen the area with a slightly rounded small tip punch to tighten it back up.

Offline jtowndown

  • Pinto Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • FeedBack: +26/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Fifth year Anniversary Linux User Mobile User
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2014, 09:37:27 PM »
I like how you guys scream at him for wanting to change out his carburetor, then tell him 15 different parts in the carburetor that should be replaced lol.  Not all people like rebuilding carburetor sometimes piece of mind is worth the extra money.  I for one am a cheap bastard lol.

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2014, 04:29:45 PM »
You misconstrue, go back and read again.. No one said to change all the parts, only which ones could possibly be an issue.......if one uses brain and checks parts for good/bad first instead of just throwing new parts at it then often maybe buy one part only. I've done it so many times I cannot count.

I sold and installed many rebuilt carbs and I reiterate this simple fact. No way will you ever get a new rebuilt carb that matches your engine better than the factory one that was on it to begin with. Absolutely no way. It was even like that to a certain extent back in the '70s when there were so many more carbs available to pick from then and much much worse now with reduced inventory. Some people back then as well simply did not understand that and insisted on the new carb anyway. Many came back complaining later of how car did not run quite as well with new carb or get as good gas mileage. Take the old one and rebuild it and back on car and better almost all the time. People just have it ingrained in their DNA that new is better and absolutely not necessarily true at all.

I am so much cheaper than you can imagine. I generally often rebuild carbs using no tune up or parts kits at all (maybe making one main body and/or throttle body gasket myself) and they almost 100% always run perfectly afterwards. Piece of mind by buying new carb is for those who do not understand them, I've never replaced one on my personal vehicles in my entire life and often tear them down to fix one exact part since I know pretty much what's wrong with it before doing so. Often I can repair and reuse the same part.......... ....

Same thing with modern PCM controlled cars, I fix all my own issues and extremely rare to not get it right the first time. I've never paid to have any car of mine fixed by someone else over a period of some 40 years+ now. THAT'S cheap......... ...

Offline 74 PintoWagon

  • Pinto Sr. Master
  • ******
  • Posts: 3105
  • FeedBack: +540/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2014, 07:18:14 AM »
I've never paid to have any car of mine fixed by someone else over a period of some 40 years+ now. THAT'S cheap......... ...

Well, I always figured I was perfectly capable of destroying my own chit and not having to pay someone else to do it for me, LOL.. ;D ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline ToniJ1960

  • Pinto Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 544
  • FeedBack: +13/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Topic Starter Poll Voter Fifth year Anniversary Windows User
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2014, 02:15:00 PM »
 I know they stopped using decel valves after a certain year, mines a 78 and it never had one. I forgot what year they stopped in its in my chiltons though.

 One thing I do, if my carb is under suspicion, is turn in the mixture screw far enough to see if it will slow down and kill the motor.

 After I had my motor rebuilt in 1988, I had a prolem I think maybe it was too fast idle. When I found I couldnt affect the motor with the mixture screw I called the guy who rebuilt it, and he said` too much gas getting through the top half`. I had no idea what he meant back then. But I found out the power valve diaphragm had ruptured or tore, and the vacuum signal wasnt holding the power valve up so it was providing enrichment at all times rather than just under load )low vacuum). After I replaced it the engine idled a lot better and of course it got better mileage. Maybe wasnt quite as fast.
 But thats an easy test, turn in the mixture screw to see if it will idle down and cut out. Later use a vacuum gauge to get the mixture close.

 There was already some long debate here in another thread on the decel valve thing. It gets confusing.

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: Fresh Motor Won't Start.
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2014, 10:40:50 PM »
Best thing to do is dump decel valve if you can in your state. Many inspect guys don't know enough to look for them as well.

'too much gas getting through the top half'.............. ............LO L, believe me your carb guy had no idea of what he was talking about as well.......... .............. .............. ....

As tonij says, you always look for screwing mixture screw too far in or out too far as indicator the carb needs cleaning. You must get some effect there. Screwing out will be less and hard to tell but needs to be some change there. Screwing in should definitely kill motor or try to but later emission engines will have less effect either way since the idle flows have been reduced for emission reasons. If you can screw a screw in or out fully and nothing changes the carb is dirty and needs cleaning.