PINTO CAR CLUB of AMERICA
Welcome to FordPinto.com, The home of the PCCA => General Help- Ask the Experts... => Topic started by: PonyRider62 on February 14, 2019, 01:24:50 PM
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Hi All! I Have A 1973 Pinto Wagon With A 2.0 Engine And A 4 Speed Transmission
What 5 Speed Transmission Would Bolt In?
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I think a merkur 5 speed..
Its a FoG 4 speed with an additional gearset bolted onto the rear like an overdrive..
Pretty common in europe but rare here..
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And they're rare in the U.S. because they only came in the '83-89 Merkur XR4Ti, of which the youngest is now 30 years old. Their 5-speed is referred to as the T9. They are still out there, but you might have to shop around. AFAIK it's a drop-in replacement for the Pinto 4-speed. Since the Merk made 2x the power and 3x the torque, it should last practically forever behind a stock 2.0.
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The T-5 is an option. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) the 2.3 bellhousing will bolt to the 2.0 block as it has secondary mounting holes to do so. You would need a pre-87 bellhousing. I used the 86 bellcrank bellhousing on my 2.3/T-5 swap. The other questions then become does the pilot bearing fit the input shaft, the splines fit the clutch disc and the starter bolt in without issues???
Note that some have used the T-5 but the consensus is varied. Some find it OK while others say the slightest incline (or head wind) force you out of 5th gear.
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The T-5 is an option. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) the 2.3 bellhousing will bolt to the 2.0 block as it has secondary mounting holes to do so.
It's the other way around; a 2.3 block has both 2.0 and 2.3 bellhousing patterns. Only the lower four bolt holes of a 2.3 T5 bellhousing will align on a 2.0 block though.
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Also.. have you done any mods to the engine.. are you sure the 2.0 will have the torque to pull the taller ratio in 5th gear..
How many revs is your engine turning at highway speed and do you have a high rev cam installed?
The stock 2.0 cam was retarded to raise the power curve. The specs rate the max torque at 3000 rpm and max power at 5800
The result is that the power curve usually starts at about 3000 to 3100 about 60 mph in 4th gear
But the stock weber 2 bbl usually wont feed the engine much over 4500 rpm so the power curve is only about 1500 rpm
The result is that power curve comes in too high to pull 4 th gear below about 60 mph so except for flat land cruising the higher ratio of the 5 speed probably wont be useful
I had a 72 wagon and had to downshift for hills
I now have a 73 with 14" wheels, installed an adjustable cam pulley and advanced the cam about 6 degrees. That moved the power curve down about 600 rpm so the cam srts working about 2400.
A carb upgrade allows for 6000 rpm but I shift around 5500
With 14 inch tires 3.40 rear end i now cruise easily at 3000 rpm at 70 mph and can loaf around town at 40 mph at 1800 rpm in 4th gear
I have considered a 5 speed but am not sure if the engine could pull 70 mph at 2600
Switching to 14 inch tires and rims is a much cheeper and easier solution since it provides the equivalent to a 10 per cent over drive. And the cam advance and a ford 2bbl will cure the carb and torque curve problem
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Wikilinks indicates that the t9 was also usedin the 1.6 and 2.0 l capri????
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Type_9_transmission
But i think the article was wrong and the 2.0 only had a 4 speed and the later capri had a 2.3
And there were several input shaft configurations
https://www.bearingkits.co.uk/How-to-tell-what-Ford-Type-9-gearbox-you-have/B19.htm
Also is the total length and shifter location the same as the 4 speed type e
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Thanks For The Input Guys!
I Just Got This Car For Christmas.....
Don't Know Much About It, Engine Maybe Modified But Not Sure, Has Headers And Runs Ok.
Been 30-35 Years Since I Had A Pinto.... Trying To Remember What I Knew About Them
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In order to bolt a 2.3 bell housing to a 2.0 block you will need a set of step dowels made or buy a set from Paul on Turboford. You will need them for proper Bell alignment if you use a T5 trans! Also I would recommend changing your rear diff gear to a min. of 3.40 final drive. The T5 uses a 10 spline input so you would have to use a small diameter 10 spline clutch disc.
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I'll add a +1 for the 3.40 gears assuming tire roughly the stock size of 13". When I went with a Turbo 2.3 I got a 3.00 8" rear end. Ironically even with 215-60-14" tires it wasn't so much that the car bogged (on acceleration under boost), in fact I liked the long-er pulls under boost. It was just that at every legally posted speed limit the 5 speed gears were either too low or the adjacent gear too high. Thus everyday driving was rather unpleasant. With the 3.40 and 175-70-13 tires the car at 65 MPH is about 2,600 RPM in 5th gear. At other (lower) legal posted speeds the RPMs are much more appropriate too.
I know we are talking rear and trans ratios here but if you have rather tall tires 3.55 might be applicable. Remember that it is the tire size, not necessarily the wheel size that matters. You can have a 185-80-13 tire and it will have a similar height to a 225 40-17 tire. The tire size it every bit as much a factor as the gear ratios. This can be helpful. https://tiresize.com/calculator/ There are many gear ratio calculators out there too. Just do a search. Having the wrong combination of tires, rear gears, transmission gears does not make a 5 speed trans "better" to have.
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On my current set I have 3.55 in the rear. I had 14'' all around until I got a set of 15'' wheels. I never had a problem out of bog on acceleration even when I ran a stock ECU. With the turbo I always had over kill of power and torque. My Pinto is a 72 hatch. I tried Many different rear ratio's I found the stock ratio Ford used on the Thunderbird worked best for a street app. Also there are different T5s not all are the same. The more torque and hp you have the less dependent you are on gear. But all said and done the T9 is the easiest to install almost bolt on lol but you would still need to change the rear gear ratio. You get the right gear ant tire combo that car should be a blast to drive around town and a dream on the interstate. Just like any modern car and you may see a noticeable change in fuel economy.
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Thanks Guys!
I'll Have To Wait Till Summer To Do Anything With The Motor And Trans......... .........So Broke
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if I may be so bold as to jump in here and ask a few silly questions. form what I am reading here and other posts on this subject. a great help by the way!! that the t9 is a bolt in application? is there any mods. needed to install? such as the drive shaft length? pilot bearing, clutch, and pressure plate? and the bell housing? the speedometer mount/location? I only ask these things, because I have never seen one to know the differences if any. please anyone in lighten me!!
thanks. Glen
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sorry, I forgot one more thing. will the shifter from the 4sp work with the t9 5sp?
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It depends on which Pinto 4 speed you have!
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I am pretty sure that if your Pinto shifter is held in place on the trans by 3 bolts it will work.
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If you are serious about the t9 and have the money ( about $700 for a rebuildable core and $500 for an overhaul) contact they guys at
https://www.taylor-race.com in plano TX
They build early pinto type transmissions for race cars and later merkur transmissions.
Their typical price for a ready to go bolt in is about $2000 and they build full on racing dog boxes as well.
They are extermely knowledeable, have all the replacement parts and are willing to give advice but try not to pester them with non relavelent stuff so as to spoil their good nature..
As for the length the t9 is just a type e 4 speed with a redesigned tailshaft to allow for essentially an overdrive gear ro be added between the main case and the tailshaft and I think the tailshaft was shortened to keep the overall length the same.
As far as the shifter all the 71-73 transmissions were mounted with a large screw in nylon bushing. 74 and up pinto and mustang used the bolte on type.
But again from experience.. I dont think a stock 2.0 with the factory cam timing and weber carb will pull 5th gear on more than a level or downhill stretch because factory motors were intended to run at 3000 rpm cruise.
The factory specs rate max torque at 3000 rpm, max power at 5800. They were not designed to cruise at 2000 rpm like a V8. My car runs at 3000 rpm at 70 mph and about 2400 at 50 well below the factory power range. I installed an adjustable cam pully to allow 6 degrees advance and upgraded the carburetor so my power starts at about 2400.
.and if you put a "high performance cam" that moves the power curve up so you will decrease the low end torque so most of the time you cant even use 5th gear..
Best solution advance the cam, replace the screwed up weber 24/32 carb switch to 205 14 tires and cruise at 70 mph at 3000 where the motor was designed to run...
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Afterthought
5 speeds are mostly used in race cars with low rear end ratios for quick low speed accelleration while 5th gear allows for higher top speed and more ratios to choose from in between so the engine can be run in a narrower power band and in street cars with high torque v8 or v6 with engine managament systems to keep engine revs low for economy.
I built mgb cars for awhile and they had 3.90 rear ratios. And 14 inch tires, 4 speeds trans with overdrives. Made power from 2500 to about 5800. The overdrive was available in 2nd 3rd and 4th gear. Some racers used them as intermediate ratios between gears.
The rear ratio was good for quick starts and the overdrive allowed high speed cruise.
In typical street driving i would get the car up to about 65 mph 3500 rpm 4th gear. Engage the OD, revs dropped to about 3000.
BUT that was on level ground.. on hills had to switch off OD and pull hills at 3500.
Most early pintos had 3.40 gears and 13 " tires.. 3000 rpm at 65 mph
Add 14" tires.. like 10 percent OD and you come out to 3000 at 70 mph.. the pinto has a little more torque then the mgb so it can handle 4th gear
Later model V6 and V8 cars have engine management systems to adjust fuel.and ign toming to allow higher ratios for cruising and fuel savings.
Older mechanically tuned cars would probably use more fuel with the engine bogging below the optimum 3000 rpm cruise except at extremely low loads..
Basic rule.. it takes fuel to move a car down the road.
Best uel mileage is obtained when engine is run at best efficiency.
Running an engine at a speed lower than max effiency will probably use more fuel.
You probably wont get better mileage with a 5 speed.unless.y ou optomise the engine with a lower power curve and you will probably get more bang from your buck with
an adjustable cam pulley from Racer Walsh and advance the cam a few degrees,
limit the distributor advance to about 14 degrees, set inital timing to 14 btdc for total advance of 28 degrees,( I posted and article here about how Idid mine, just replace one of the distributor springs with a loop of wire)
remove vacuum advance
Install a linkage kit on your weber 2bbl to allow both sections to open simultaneously rather than progressive for better throttle response and
Switch to 205 14 tires and you will be amazed at how well the car runs.
And for a lot less money and hassel than tracking down a 5 speed.
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ok, I was able to get a picture of one. there are some differences. first thing I see is that (your right) the shifter is held in with bolts, not screwed in like mine. the second thing is the location of the shifter. it is not in the same place as the 4sp trans I have. and third is the input shaft. the number of splines for the clutch, not the same.
now for my next question. can the tail shaft from the pinto trans be swapped out and used on the gear box of the t9?
thanks, Glen
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Shifter location depends on what vehicle the trans came out of. I think the Merkur is close to the Pinto shifter location if not the same.
To answer your question. No!
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the pictures of the one I seen are from a 88-89 t-bird.
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I was just told that the trans I have pictures of from the t-bird had a hydraulic clutch set up on this t9. do all t9 transmissions have a hydraulic set up including the merkur trans? I would like to keep it cable if possible. but if I had to go with a slave cylinder would I have to get it from the same car?
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You are looking at a T5
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Clarify which transmission would you like to talk about T5 or T9? I do believe your facts are muddled. Or do you want to see if I know what I am talking about?
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according to the man I was in contact with says it is a t9. but if you say the shifter location on a t9 is the same as a pinto. then the trans he sent a picture of cant be right. the shifter location is and looks to me like it would be a t5. it is set forward a little bit and the shifter is bolted in. I wish I could post pictures but I'm not sure if I can. always tells me that the are to big. I'll try
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I hope this worked. this is the picture of the trans (t9) he sent me.
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Again you are looking at a T5!
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Usually there is a tag on the transmission stating what it is. In the Ford realm there are basically three T-5's most commonly denoted by their 1st gear ratio.
1. The 2.3 version had roughly a 4.00 1st gear (some say 3.96 others 4.03) I'll average it to 4.00. It has a longer input shaft length.
2. The Mustang V-8 version had a 3.35 1st gear ratio. It has a shorter input shaft length.
3. The aftermarket (Ford Motorsports) version had a 2.95 1st gear ratio. The input shaft should be the same as the Mustang V-8 version.
There are other T-5's, The Chevette, the Camaro/Firebird with tilted case, the Datsun and I believe a few others. Some T-5's were world class (stronger) and others not. Even in the Ford use they were different in lengths, input shaft length and varying strengths. There were even a few (at least one) different ratios from what I have stated.
If the transmission in the picture is the Mustang V-8 version I recall there being a special pilot bearing that compensates for the shorter input shaft length. What the input shaft splines are and what disc fits that and the 2.3 flywheel size, someone else will have to provide that. However, a 3.35 1st gear ratio is likely not too conducive to the 2.0 given the 2.3 (for the most part) used 4.00 1st gear.
If if using the 2.3 version (4.00 1st gear in my case from a T/C) as far as mounting goes I was able to just reverse the transmission crossmember and then slot the holes to support the trans using the stock Pinto mount (round hockey puck style). The transmission opening (for the shift lever) only needs to be move forward about 2". Note that in the Pinto I modified the T/C shift lever (shorter/back further) because I was punching the dashboard in 1st, 3rd and 5th gears. It will be different for everyone's size but it was a lot of trial and error to get the lever so it felt right. Few have ever used the hydraulic system similar to the 87-88 T/C but most use the earlier "Bellcrank" bellhousing with a cable. This necessitates elevating the cable over the crossmember. I'll post a few pictures.
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The t9 was only fitted to merkurs in america but were fitted to other ford products in england and europe that used the 2.0 sohc engine.. like the sierra
No other american ford used the t9
A t5 will not fit into an early pinto without major mods to the pinto.
The t9 had a flat stamped steel top cover like the factory Type E FoG 4 speed..
The t9 was essentially a FoG 4 speed with an additional section added between the main case and shorted tail shaft.
Read this article..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Type_9_transmission
btw.. the 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 engines are variations of the original german 2.0 used in european ford products, not the kent or later 2.3 lima engines..
T9s are extremely rare and sell for upwards of $700 in rebuildable core condition if you can find one..
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I'm not sure what it takes to adapt a T-5 to a 2.0 engine. However, I did put a T-5 in my early (1973) Pinto wagon when I went to a 2.3 Turbo motor. Virtually everything I did, I did with an angle grinder, a file and a drill. From my perspective it wasn't complicated.
1. I used an angle grinder to cut the shifter opening in the transmission tunnel forward about 2"-3". This took about a minute.
2. I used a file to lengthen the slots in the transmission crossmember. In retrospect (knowing what I know now) I would probably just drill holes as far back as possible. This took about 5 minutes.
3. As mentioned above I simply reversed the crossmember and used the C-4 transmission mount that came with the car. This took no extra time.
4. As mentioned above I used a small piece of steel plate to elevate the clutch cable over the front suspension crossmember. This was simply a drill bit for the two holes and an angle grinder to cut the steel to size. I did weld on an anti rotate tab (in case it ever came loose) but that wasn't absolutely necessary. This took about 30 minutes. Note my pictures show I slotted the crossmembner holes..., but I found that was unnecessary.
5. As mentioned above I cut a piece of steel with an angle grinder to move my shifter rearward. I also cut the lever, shortened it and reconfigured its shape. This I did use a MIG welder for and many may not have that tool. Depending on an individuals idea of proper position and comfort this may or may not be necessary. In my case it took about an hour. It is the one thing in the process that wasn't inexpensive, but only because someone who didn't have a weld would either have to pay someone, or buy one. In my case I had my welder for years.
6. Not mentioned above is I went from a C-4 Automatic / 6-3/4" rear to a T-5 / 8" rear. The original driveshaft fit perfectly without alteration!
So, from my perspective the T-5 adaptation (to a 2.3 in an early '73 Pinto) was rather easy. Again, I never adapted a T-5 to a 2.0 and the inputs shaft length, the proper disc, pressure plate, fork, throwout bearing, pilot bearing, driveshaft alterations etc. might be a far more entailed process. To be honest the driveshaft fitment came as a pleasant surprise. The 8" rear did cost me $115 but I'd rather have the strength of that than to have kept the 6-3/4" and paid a similar amount to have the driveshaft altered.
A few more pictures (clutch cable elevation plate and transmission mount pieces).
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thanks guys for the information. I didn't think it was a t9 when I say the shifter location. and as far as cutting up my car, no way I want to do that after I put 4 years into rebuilding it from ground up. I am just going to have to do more research on this.
also as far as the picture of the t5, he also mentioned that he had a 2.3 for sale as well. I think that is what he had it for.
Glen
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Wittsend please clarify Mustang version. A Mustang used the following engines a I4 a I6 a V6 and a V8 over the years! The SVO had it's own versions of the T5 but they will fit in place of any 4cyl Trans. All the non worldclass T5 used behind a 4 cyl are the same. All worldclass used behind a 4 cyl are the same except the SVO T5s. And there are differences in the T5 used behind the V6s and V8s over the years besides gear ratios! The input shafts are different lengths between certain years!
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The input shaft of a t5 is different than the factory 4 speed. in length, spline and pilot bearing.. Also there were several varients of the t5 all with different input shaft lengths, splines pilot bearings to fit different applications.. also several bell housings. there is one t5 that supposedly was installed in a v6 ford that has an input shaft with the proper spline but you need to add a 1" spacer between the engine and bell housing.. but you need to have a pilot bearing custom made and find a clutch that matches both the spline and flywheel.
The bolt locations for the 2.3 bell housing will not fit the 2.0 engine.
You may also need to cut a hole in the tunnel to relocate the shifter even with the t9
The rear trans.mount is the easiest part...
The reason folks use the t9 is that it was built to fit the 2.0 engine bolt pattern, spline, etc.
The t5 was built to mate to the 2.3 and later engines
.as i mentioned above.. easiest and cheepest solution.. find a 6 3/4 rear end with 3.40 gears..
Find a decent factory FoG Type E 4 speed, have it rebuilt. Add a few engine mods for more torque, add some.14" tires and let the stock 2.0 sing down the road at 3000 rpms at 70 mph like it was designed to..
With a 5 speed you will need to get up about 80 mph to get to the optimum enngine speed..
5 speeds for great for racing cars with really low rear ratios.. 3.70- 4.11 that need max acceleration a t a wide range of speeds.. a 5 speed provides more ratios but for street driving first gear would be really low.
For my car with 3.40 rear end and 14" tires my 1st gear is really short 23 mph and takes less than a few seconds to top out even if i rev it to 6000 rpm. On wet roads or gravel difficult to avour wheel spin.
2nd tops at about 50 at 5000 rpm. I cruise at 1800 rpm at 40 mph in 4th around town.
Generally dont use 3rd much except at 30 mph and accellerating onto fwy, just 1,2 4 shifrs
. First gear with a 4.11 rear end and 5 speed would prolly top out at 18 at 4500 rpm. In a race car that turns 7000 plus rpm this would be useful not in a street car.
And 4th the gear with stock carb would top at maybe 55 at 4500. This is where you NEED 5th gear..
You probably wont notice any benefit from the effort necessary to find and install a t9 except having that sexy shift knob with a 5 speed pattern on it and probably wont use 5 gear except for high speed crusing on flat or downhill..and prolly no increase in fuel economy.
Did you check the link to taylor racing.. they are experts on both Type 9 FoG and merkur t9
And will sell.you one for only $2000 us
Ps.. with the above mods to my car i have driven it on the last 3 pinto.stampede s each 3000 miles over freeway and mountain back roads.. kept up with bothe the 2.3, v6 and v8 cars.. just hummed down the road at 3000 rpm all day long.
Also.. even with 3.40 rear end and 14" tires my 4 speed is really short 23 mph.even if i rev it to 6000 rpm. First gear with a 4.11 rear end and 5 speed would prolly top out at 18. And 4 the gear aithe stock carb would top at maybe 55 at 4500
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Wittsend please clarify Mustang version. A Mustang used the following engines a I4 a I6 a V6 and a V8 over the years! The SVO had it's own versions of the T5 but they will fit in place of any 4cyl Trans. All the non worldclass T5 used behind a 4 cyl are the same. All worldclass used behind a 4 cyl are the same except the SVO T5s. And there are differences in the T5 used behind the V6s and V8s over the years besides gear ratios! The input shafts are different lengths between certain years!
Yes, I was remiss, I assumed that most people know the 3.35 was used behind the V-8 Mustangs (and is the transmission I was referring to). Behind the 2.0 he has strength is probably not an issue. While I did differentiate it from the 2.3 T-5 (less the SVO exception) I did not specify it specific to the V-8 version.
For the most part until the original poster can identify what specific T-5 transmission he has?, or is it he was considering it?, or he thought it was a t-9??? - this is starting to get confusing..., all this information while ultimately of value might be clouding the issue. And if even with a T-9 he doesn't want to cut the under carpet trans tunnel slightly I think the situation is solved because it doesn't seem to be going forward.
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here are a couple of good write-ups about the various T-5 transmissions.
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm
http://www.rosehillperformanceparts.com/Trans%20ID%20chart.htm
hope this helps.
Russ
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Well I still suggest just keeping the factory 4 speed , making some minor engine and tire mods to improve driveability and save money especially since he doesnt want to mod the pinto structure
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Well I still suggest just keeping the factory 4 speed , making some minor engine and tire mods to improve driveability and save money especially since he doesnt want to mod the pinto structure
I don't necessarily disagree. Way back in post #4 (reply #3) I stated:
"Note that some have used the T-5 but the consensus is varied. Some find it OK while others say the slightest incline (or head wind) force you out of 5th gear."
I was simply giving information (a "5 speed transmission" question was asked in the first post) that a T-5 was an option (and what was entailed from experience with a 2.3) since the T-5 came up in the discussion. And, that GENERALLY (meaning most likely to find) some T-5's came with the 4.00 1st gear (2.3) and others were 3.35 (Mustang - failing to state on my part a V-8 Mustang). I'm not a salesman promoting the T-5 behind a 2.0, I'm just giving information for the original poster to decide for himself. And as we have both noted, it seems he already has.
I find myself in a similar predicament with my Sunbeam Tiger. An early car it has the 2.32 1st gear close ratio gear set and the narrow pattern transmission on a 5 bolt bellhousing (early 289). Toploaders are getting extremely pricey and the cost to go to a wide ratio isn't in my wallet. I'd like to go with a Mustang V-8 T-5 but the trans to bellhousing bolt pattern isn't there. And late trans pattern/5 bolt bellhousing (usually a dual pattern bellhousing) are rather rare and expensive. And finally where as the 2.32 is too tall for 1st gear in the Toploader the 3.35 many say is too short in the T-5. The ideal in the Tiger is the aftermarket 2.95 but you won't be finding one of those for $150 at Pick Your Part. So, yea, I get transmission conundrums. :(
Lastly I thought I had found my solution similar to your recommendation . A Jeep Toploader (T-178) came with 3.00 1st gear and a 1:1 4th gear. I was considering swapping that gearset into my case and running a taller tire. That in essence would have brought me down to the equivalent of a wide ratio (2.78) Toploader and also effectively been equal to some degree of overdrive. Seemed like a great idea but for 15 years finding a T-178 is very elusive. Even on Jeep forums they don't seem to enter discussion. I asked once and got no effective reply.
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Back in about 68 my brother in tacoma wa found a tiger with a 289, 4 speed, 4bbl and aluminum flywheel. He bought it for $1100. Not sure of the trans ratio but he said that 1st gear started pulling at about 30 mph.. he ran it in the 1/4 mile and topped off 2nd at about 120 mph.
But with stock tires and wet roads traction was a real problem
From my understanding early 289 engines had different bolt patterns from the later ones...
My brother also raced pintos in the 90s and when i asked about a 5 speed he mentioned the elusive v6 model with a 1"spacer plate..
I looked at trying to find a 5 speed conversion for my 73 wagon but decided that the gain wasnt worth the effort and my 4 speed does as much as i could ever want.. goes down the road reliably..
But i am in the market for a good 4 speed core to have rebuilt as a spare..
Taylor will do a rebuild to racing specs for $500
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LTFM I disagree with you on some things. Mostly because of my personal experience in this matter! I will not compare racing applications to this. That is like comparing apples to oranges. A Pinto was not a premier car and American auto manufactures were too cheap to put a 5 speed trans in a Pinto! European and Japanese used them with great success in much lesser cars with smaller less powerful engines at that time!
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Well i agree with what you just posted as well and not trying to be argumentative
Ive done a lot of stuff with MG cars, especially MGA and MGB which had 1400 and 1800 cc engines. They all had 4 speeds and some had laycock hydro electric overdrives to provide a 5th top gear..
But they also had 3.90 rear ratios to allow for low ratios for starting but topped out quickly at highway speeds in 4 gear, typically about 3800 rpm at 65.
The OD reduced the engine speed to about 3000 at 65, BUT on hills itas necessary to shift out of OD .
So the OD was a way to provide more ratios to accomplish an overall low 1st with a moderately comfortable highway ratio to allow the engine to cruise at 3000 rpm overall.
The key was the overall ratio including bothe the low 3.90 real end and optional high ratio 5th gear to provide a 3000 rpm cruise.
Most folks today feel that simply bolting a transmission with a higher top ratio to their existing normally high rear ratio will provide more speed or fuel ecnomy but as mentioned before. A STOCK 2.0 might not be able to pull the higher top ratio on anything except flat or downhill roads and bogging the engine could decrease economy..
And newer cars with engine management systems can vary both fuel delivery AND IGNITION TIMING to match engine loading.. something early pintos lacked.. thats why some newer cars with 5 or 6 speed trans can get high mileage its not necessarily the transmission.
To optomize the overall performance you need to look at the overall ratio inluding top trans ratio, rear ratio, tire size and engine power band.
Some cars are optomized for a low engine power band some for high. Stock 2.0 Pintos seem to like about 3000 rpm minimum for hills and highway.. below this requires a lower ratio.
The advantage of a 5 speed would best be realized by using a 3.80 or 4.11 rear gear (which is a difficult find for the factory 6 3/4 rear end) with a 5 speed to improve the BOTTOM END accelleration and allow comfortable highway cruise at 3000 rpm.
But again with a few minor engine mods you can improve the low end torque and expand the overall power band to accomplish the better acceleration without any major gearing changes. So its a matter of efficiency and money and effort from there..and how much time you want to spend wrenching on the car.
If you want you could install.an aftermarket OD unit on the rear end and end up with an 8 speed. Its just a matter of time and money.
Bottom line..I considered both the t9 and t5 conversions and if someone gave me a T9 in good shape or i could find one for a couple hundred dollars, I would probably bolt it in but I prolly wouldnt spend time chasing one down.. my factory 4 speed does everything i need it to do including 3000 mile pinto stampeds every year over freeways and mountain roads and serves as my daily driver.
I am in the market for a good spare to have rebuilt to have on hand for the future.
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I have no desire to cause an argument either! Just share info and thoughts! I am not trying to encourage or discourage from going the 5 speed route. There are pros and cons to doing this we both weighted in on both sides of the argument. It will take work money and patience to get this right.And most of all it will not be for anyone but the right one! Also if you feel you are the one and can commit to it go for it! I can offer you all my experience to help you on this journey!
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Side note we are in the middle of a 2.3 build and we have considered a modern 10 speed auto as a trans of choice to put behind this build. Yes it will be high HP build 450 HP on base tune and we would like to see if we can get 30 plus MPG on the highway. I have gotten 40ish MPG out of current set-up using 5 speed that puts out 400ish on the ground!