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Offline 82expghost

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4sp wont shift when it warms up
« on: August 29, 2011, 12:31:38 PM »
my 77 pinto drives fine and shifts like a dream, but when it warms up , say 20 minutes of driving, i cant put it in any gear at all, unless i turn the car off and put it in the gear i want, if im moving i can shift, its only at 5mph or stopped when i cant shift, transmission gear oil is fine, clutch doesnt make any noise, no bad noises at all, im thinking it has somthing to do with the clutch, but it feels good, sombody with help please!
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Offline DBSS1234

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2011, 01:49:19 PM »
Throw out bearing is shot. After the engine runs for awhile it warms the bearing and then the bearing won't turn freely so the clutch can't disengage.
 
To replace you must remove the tranmission. While you are in there replace the clutch disc and pressure plate. Resurface the flywheel also.

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2011, 06:31:59 PM »
There are several different things that would cause this issue. So you don't get any grinding at all like you missed a gear? Does the clutch pedal get kinda spongy once it's warmed up or does it feel stiff all the time? Two things come to mind, if the pedal gets spongy then it sounds like a pressure plate. If it stays stiff feeling the entire time then check the clutch pedal play. When it's cold check where the clutch starts to disengauge when you push the pedal down, then check where its at when warmed up. If it changes then it could still be the pressure plate but it could also be the clutch cable. just some food for thought.

Offline 82expghost

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2011, 09:21:12 PM »
ther isnt any grinding, and ther isnt any spongy feeling, but i will check to see if the slack changes, and to be more defined , i can tell the transmission is still turning because if i try real hard to put it in gear, i can hear and feel the drive shaft clunk trying to move, its still the original clutch in my car at over 100,000 miles, so somthing probebly is warn out, i adjusted the slack to the clutch when it was cold to the hanes manual specs, but it didnt help, i will check the slack when it warms up tomorrow
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Offline pintofarm

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2011, 09:36:35 PM »
I suspect that the grease on the input shaft splines where they mate with the clutch disc splines has deterorated to the point that the disc is binding or failing to move away from the flywheel when the pressure plate is disengauged.  The clutch disc needs to slide back and forth on the input splines slightly when the pressure plate is applied or released.  Either way the transmission will likely need to be removed to completely clean and re-lube the splines. That grease doesn't last forever.
Louie

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2011, 10:34:57 PM »
It sounds like a new clutch might be in order. If you have no grinding and it does what you explained then it sounds like it is due.

Offline blupinto

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2011, 11:01:02 PM »
Something similar to this has been happening to me with my '73 green wagon. Her transmission was replaced a couple months ago and for the most part shifts just fine. Once in a while, however, the gearshift will not go into where I want it to unless I turn the car off and shift it- then turn the car on and it's fine (except the last time- I had to shut the car off three times before it would go into gear... naturally at an intersection).  I called Oceanside Transmissions, the place the tranny was swapped at, and the guy who I talked to and described the problem to said it's a synchronizatio n issue. The green wagon's engine is badly in need of a rebuild or replacement and her carburetor needs adjustment, so that might be my synchronizatio n issue right there. Just like 82expghost said, it won't shift into any gear til I turn the car off, shift with clutch in, then restart. Mine, however, doesn't need to be warmed up- this tends to happen within 5 minutes of starting the car and half a mile or less driving.  ???
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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2011, 11:10:56 PM »
That's something that's another possibility. The synchro's he is talking about are inside the transmission. I can't imagine that all of them are bad at the same time. Does your car do this on all up and downshifts 82EXPGHOST ?

Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2011, 11:35:09 PM »


  Mine does this too,or something similar.After it gets warmed up like after a lot of city driving in the summer especially,its a little hard to get it into first.I can force it in but just about the most I want to force it.I had the transmission replaced no that long ago,with one I bought from a guy in Texas who claimed it had been rebuilt by students at a tech school. I was hoping it might just loosen up later,but I guess it could be some of these other things. I doubt its the synchronizers its possible of course but I think its jumping to conclusions,and they always seem to get the blame. The throwout bearing isnt too unlikely,since mine does make a little squawking sometimes,and the last time I had the clutch replaced thery didnt change it :( Some place in Kentucky and I was just glad to get it back by then. So my vote goes to throwout bearing but still a guess.

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2011, 11:54:06 PM »
All a throwout bearing does is make the link between the fork and the pressure plate. If it were bad it would make noise due to being dry or about to lock up. If it locks up then it tears everything up. It does and it doesn't have anything to do with shifting. It does push the fingers in on the pressure plate which releases the clutch disk allowing the transmission to slow enough to be shifted. It doesn't have anything to do with the transmission shifting internally. This is one of those six of one thing, half dozen of another deals. It could be one of several things. The big thing is...it's hard to figure out unless your there actually working on it.

Offline 82expghost

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2011, 09:56:12 AM »
down shift and up shifting is fine, as long as im rolling, i checked the slack when it warmed up and to my amazement, that cable didnt stretch at all, from what iv been hearing, im guna drop the trans and clean it and throw a clutch set in it, i thaught it mite be the clutch, i was just hoping it was somthing i overlooked and could just tighten or adjust, thank you all so much for the help and info, im still guna cross my fingers thoe that a whole clutch kit fixes it
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Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2011, 01:35:19 PM »

 Please come back and let us all know your results/conclusions and good luck.

Offline Starliner

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2011, 12:58:06 PM »
You may have the wrong oil in the transmission.  If it is too thin the gears keep spinning.  Drain the old oil and try a straight 90 W or 75W-90 gear oil.  You have nothing to lose since changing the fluid is good maintenance anyway.  No wasted money and you ruled out a possible cause.   
 
Also make sure the level is full.  The car should be level when filling the oil.  Over-fill the transmission and then let it leak back out of the fill hole.  Then install the plug. 
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Offline 82expghost

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2011, 10:05:20 PM »
it mite have been too then of oil in the transmission, i drained it while changing the clutch, but the clutch was super worn and the glazed, new everything including clutch cable, now my shifter feels fluidy, smoother, my clutch engages faster and smoother. i went all out, and i put lucas 75-90 in the transmission, the old fluid felt silicone like, so that could hve been one of the problems, how far should the clutch travel thoe? i think im still pushing the pedal too far, is ther suposed to be a stop on it?
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Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2011, 12:15:37 AM »
 In my case Im doubtful its the gear lube the whole transmission was replaced just about a year ago,and fresh pennzoil 90w hypoid gear lube was put in it.

And its getting worse,so I guess time to start setting aside money for a clutch soon.

Does anyone have recommendation s for brands of clutch parts? It seems they only last me about 5 or maybe 6 years. But Im starting to realize autozone and even O Reilly dont always sell the top of the line brands,just at the top of the brand prices.

Offline 82expghost

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2011, 12:36:31 PM »
i got a whole luk clutch with both bearings for 80 at my local autoparts store, it feels good
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2011, 03:46:13 PM »
Sounds like you solved your problem

Offline dave1987

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Re: 4sp wont shift when it warms up
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2011, 12:42:52 AM »
I find that O'Reilly's has Pioneer brand stuff, and NAPA uses it's "own" brand (produced by another company, not sure which). Autozone carries Duralast. Not sure what CarQuest has, I have never shopped there. The NAPA ones last me awhile, but I change mine every 3-4 years and keep the parts as emergency replacements.
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