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2.0 Mickey Thompson SUPER RARE Rocker cover and belt guard
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(3) 1980 Ford Pinto Station Wagon Projects

Date: 03/15/2023 02:16 pm
Crankshaft Pulley
Date: 10/01/2018 05:00 pm
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Date: 09/08/2018 03:13 pm
1600 CC WATER PUMP
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79 Wagon with many extras
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74 & Up Parts
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Drivers side door panel Orange
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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Window Belts & Window Runs

Started by 77pintocw, May 02, 2005, 08:19:41 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jinxter

Yeah, I need these, too.  And the weatherstripping around the window, and both for the sunroof.  I actually have some bulb-type that will work with the inner seal for the roof.  We use it at work and is distributed by Trim-Lok.  If anyone is interested, I can get the part number and see if it is available for small-time purchase (we get it in larger quantities).
Beat it to fit, paint it to match...

fhpny71

Quote from: Scott Hamilton on August 31, 2005, 10:42:10 PM
Window Belts are available through AutoKrafters, they are pricey but good.

I worked with Mark at re-pops to get these re-manufactured, they are EXACT replacements for the 74 & up, if you have a 71-73 you will need to move 1 clip on each outer belt....

Hi Scott,
Probably do not remember me, I finally got back to this group!  In fact, I just paid to become charter. 
I remember when you or someone Else here was having some of these felts/runs and 'snow scrappers' made for purchase through the group.  I can't find any current info here on them, are they all gone?  Do I need to just search eBay? 
Oh!  I have a '71 like your 'harvest gold'.
Thanks!

Frank

Pintoman28

I just ordered a set of belt lines for my 1979 Ford Pinto. Cost me $98.00 with shipping for both doors. Still no one that I know that sells weatherstipping for door seals. The Toll free number is 1-800-228-7346. Good people to deal with.     
If your not sure just ask another Pinto Friend. We'll figure it out!! 1979 Orange Sedan 2.3 Restored and 1979 Sedan 2.3 Asphalt Oval Track Racer

77pintocw

Hey Tiffany:

I got both the belt lines and the windshield gasket from Auto Krafters Classic Ford Parts on eBay.  The
windshield weatherstrip is the same high quality as the belt lines.  They have one now for US $69.95.

Enjoy!

77pintocw
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

sagesunrise

I am in a desperate need to purchase a full set of driver/passenger door window channel weatherstripping (I guess you refer to them as the window runs). I bought my belt lines from KarKrafters off of eBay and would recommend them to anyone interested. Good price, excellent item and they work perfect. Please keep me posted on this-I will be the first to buy them!! I also need both driver/passenger door gaskets and a front windshield gasket (I've seen the windshield gasket on ebay, just haven't bought one yet).

Thanks,
Tiffany
Tiffany Morrison
'71 Pinto Sedan 2.0, '51 Willys CJ3A, '75 Ford F250, '70 Ford Maverick, '68 GMC Value Van (aka the Hippie Van), and a 1947 Flxible Clipper RV conversion Bus, 1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor, 1969 VW Baja Bug

80 hauler

Hey, gang: What is the latest word on window runs? It cost me nearly $100 to buy an NOS Pinto window run off ebay -- I'm willing to send it off to re-pops to use as a template if i could convince them to make em for us, unless it has been done before. Is there still interest out there for new runs? Does anyone know what else might work in its place ... i can't go through another winter without them!

77pintocw

Hey Tiffany:

Thanks for the good tip.  I went to e-bay and found them.  I will order them today.

Have a great and safe holiday!

77pintocw
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

sagesunrise

77pintocw,
Hi, I know you asked Scott, but I wanted to let you know that I purchased a set of beltlines off eBay from Autokrafters and they are EXCELLENT!! On my '71, I had to relocate one of the end clips on each belt but other than that they fit perfect and appear to be a very quality item. I know they still list them on eBay. I paid about $75 for mine-yea maybe too much, but it's better than having broken windows in my pinto doors. And there was a feller here on fordpinto.com that wanted $110 so I didn't think the price was too bad. They ought to last the life of my car.
Tiffany
Tiffany Morrison
'71 Pinto Sedan 2.0, '51 Willys CJ3A, '75 Ford F250, '70 Ford Maverick, '68 GMC Value Van (aka the Hippie Van), and a 1947 Flxible Clipper RV conversion Bus, 1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor, 1969 VW Baja Bug

77pintocw

Hi Scott:

I went to AutoKrafters' homepage for the window belts.  However, they do not
list Pintos as one of the cars.  Any suggestions?

Thank you!

77pintocw 
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

Scott Hamilton

Window Belts are availblae through AutoKrafters, they are pricey but good.

I woked with Mark at re-pops to get these re-manufactured, they are EXACT replacements for the 74 & up, if you have a 71-73 you will need to move 1 clip on each outer belt....
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

sagesunrise

Oh, Oh!!!!  I need the inner and outer belts for both front doors on my 71. I need a run for the drivers door. Please let me know what I need to do to purchase these items.
Tiffany Morrison
'71 Pinto Sedan 2.0, '51 Willys CJ3A, '75 Ford F250, '70 Ford Maverick, '68 GMC Value Van (aka the Hippie Van), and a 1947 Flxible Clipper RV conversion Bus, 1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor, 1969 VW Baja Bug

77pintocw

Hey sagesunrise:

A picture is worth a 1000 words.  I have attached two pics, one showing the window belt weatherstrip
and one showing the runs.

I contacted Scott about these items.  However, you can see the reply.  I haven't heard any more
about these items.  If Scott doesn't read this message we should contact him and see if he can
help us.

Also, as far as I know there is no door weatherstripping available at this time.  We all need this part.

Cheers!   ;D

77pintocw
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

sagesunrise

Could you guys help me to understand exactly what the window belts are? I need the weatherstripping for both doors in my sedan, is that what you are referencing? I need all of it and the rubber door gasket too. How do I go about obtaining these items for my pinter? Thank you for your assistance.
Tiffany Morrison
'71 Pinto Sedan 2.0, '51 Willys CJ3A, '75 Ford F250, '70 Ford Maverick, '68 GMC Value Van (aka the Hippie Van), and a 1947 Flxible Clipper RV conversion Bus, 1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor, 1969 VW Baja Bug

77pintocw

Scott:

I looked but couldn't find the manufacture & part number information on the forum for the window runs.  Do we
get the re pro window belts. $50/set (all four) for Charter Members ONLY from you?

Thanks!
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

Scott Hamilton

I have a small stock of re pro window belts. $50/ set (all four) for Charter Members ONLY.

1 caveat, they need one clip moved if you are going to use them with the 71-74 Pinto, they were designed off of the 76-78 & fit perfectly on those years.

I have also found the window run material, you will need to refinish the guides and install them on the material unless you want to go guideless...

Search for 'window runs' on this forum for the manufacture & part number to order, I believe I posted this info long ago... If you don't find it post back here & I'll dig though my stuff & try to find the original invoice...
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

losin sux

I need a set now too.  Oh that whistle is bad! 
77 HB 2.3 C3 3.40

77pintocw

Hi:

I was reading this section and saw there are Window Belts & Window Runs available.
Can someone point me in the right direction as how to obtain these parts?

Thanks!
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics


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