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Offline Tonycando

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1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« on: February 08, 2017, 07:15:41 PM »
So dealing with this issue now that my rack has been dropped,there are some kits out there available for the newer Mustang 2 stuff that would require drilling the outer tie rod hole which is it that big of a deal but can anyone tell me if the thread is the same on the mustang2 tie rod shaft as the 71 Pinto .
This is one kit that is being offered to me 

http://www.cachassisworks.com/p-175-tie-rod-enda-arm12-bore.aspx

Thanks
 Tony

Offline pinto_one

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2017, 07:43:20 PM »
The newer 74 up pinto/mustang rack is larger , along with the tie rods and ends , the hole in your spindle is small , those parts and realy not for street use , they won't last as a daily driver , the smallest rack for the pinto is the one you have now , to safety get rid of the bump steer your going to have to move the rack back to org location , you can notch out the oil pan , much easier than trying to mod the steering system, been there done that too ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline Tonycando

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2017, 08:55:34 PM »
The newer 74 up pinto/mustang rack is larger , along with the tie rods and ends , the hole in your spindle is small , those parts and realy not for street use , they won't last as a daily driver , the smallest rack for the pinto is the one you have now , to safety get rid of the bump steer your going to have to move the rack back to org location , you can notch out the oil pan , much easier than trying to mod the steering system, been there done that too ,

Not a daily driver with a Cleveland running a 700" lift solid roller,bin there dun that with oil pan work,I'd have to have a drain at the rear of the pan to get the oil flowing to the front sump as is.but back to my question  is the thread size the same on the 71 pinto tie rod as the late 73 and up.

Thanks

Offline pinto_one

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2017, 09:45:54 PM »
That would be a no , the 71 and 72 had the same rack , the 73 rack is a one only , but took the same tie rod ends as the 71/72 ,   But since you stuffed a Cleveland in it you just may have to drop the tie rod ends , make an adaptor or go smaller helm joints , try looking at aircraft spruce, they have aero space grade helm joints to be safe , hope this helps , and one more thing you could check is a company called flaming river , they made a 71/72 pinto rack copy , it might have the larger tie rods , not sure , great if they did , later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline Tonycando

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2017, 10:01:56 PM »
That would be a no , the 71 and 72 had the same rack , the 73 rack is a one only , but took the same tie rod ends as the 71/72 ,   But since you stuffed a Cleveland in it you just may have to drop the tie rod ends , make an adaptor or go smaller helm joints , try looking at aircraft spruce, they have aero space grade helm joints to be safe , hope this helps , and one more thing you could check is a company called flaming river , they made a 71/72 pinto rack copy , it might have the larger tie rods , not sure , great if they did , later Blaine

So your thinking swap to their rack for the larger thread count and one of the bump steer kits will be more adaptable ? 

Thanks
  Tony

Offline pinto_one

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2017, 10:11:55 PM »
You just have to check first to see , I know 99% of the racers use them and they use the newer spindle from the 74 up mustang/pinto , so my best guess they did , but I don't know for sure , sure would save a lot of work and have no slack from a 45 year old rack , find out and post it , like to know .
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline pinto_one

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2017, 08:34:04 AM »
I did look this morning at Flaming River web site , they do have the racks with larger tie rod ends , one is 1/2  and the next is 9/16 , huge , and a few other options , hope this helps in your project to prevent bump steer ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline dick1172762

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2017, 09:52:30 AM »
I really would not worry about one of the bump steer kits not working after seeing what a mini stock Pinto goes through on a dirt track night after night. Only problem would be the heim joint life and steering vibration sent back to the steering wheel. If you can't raise the rack, look at lowering the spindle arms down if you have room. I really wouldn't worry about the bump steer as your car is never going to be on a road race course.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Tonycando

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2017, 12:50:58 PM »
I really would not worry about one of the bump steer kits not working after seeing what a mini stock Pinto goes through on a dirt track night after night. Only problem would be the heim joint life and steering vibration sent back to the steering wheel. If you can't raise the rack, look at lowering the spindle arms down if you have room. I really wouldn't worry about the bump steer as your car is never going to be on a road race course.

Interesting idea  on lowering the arm. Are your thoughts on this to heat and form it tonwhere its needed or
The thought i dred is
Cut and weld

Offline dick1172762

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2017, 02:59:33 PM »
I seen it done both ways, but the cut and weld way is scary to say the least. I once owned a 57 Chevy E-gaser with the front spindles made out of two, then cut offset, and the two longest parts welled back together. There wasn't a floor jack that would lift the front wheels off the ground. It would launch off the line with so much body lift that I had a hard time seeing the strip. The tires never left the ground. Not the way to go! If your going to do it, I would heat the arm and after its where you want it, get it re heat treated. I've done my own by putting the part in a bucket of old engine oil while the part was still very HOT. Redneck way I guess. The 57 Chevy? Ran straight and true and is still being dragged 38 years later with those spindles still on it. Just have a really good welder if you cut and weld. The chevy's were arc welded. I would drive it first as you may not see any difference in the way it handles.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Tonycando

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2017, 09:58:34 PM »
I seen it done both ways, but the cut and weld way is scary to say the least. I once owned a 57 Chevy E-gaser with the front spindles made out of two, then cut offset, and the two longest parts welled back together. There wasn't a floor jack that would lift the front wheels off the ground. It would launch off the line with so much body lift that I had a hard time seeing the strip. The tires never left the ground. Not the way to go! If your going to do it, I would heat the arm and after its where you want it, get it re heat treated. I've done my own by putting the part in a bucket of old engine oil while the part was still very HOT. Redneck way I guess. The 57 Chevy? Ran straight and true and is still being dragged 38 years later with those spindles still on it. Just have a really good welder if you cut and weld. The chevy's were arc welded. I would drive it first as you may not see any difference in the way it handles.

Really ? I did drop the rack about 1"1/4. I would have thought this would affect it big time..and yes I miss the old days of no fear and welded on parts.lol.

The kit that has been offered to me has 1/2"x20 threads on the heims and the say will fit the 71. Does this sound correct ? 

Thanks

Offline dick1172762

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2017, 10:48:53 AM »
Where does the 1/2-20 go? Is it where the hemi joint will go? Sounds really big doesn't it? Bump steer is when the car launch's and lifts up the toe changes. Really no big deal unless its way out. Toe in, no big deal in the handling. Toe out and the car will wander on the big end, big deal. Just drive it first before you cut and weld or heat and bend. You need to know what the toe does before you do anything. String it and see what it does when you lift the car. FIRST!
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline blink77

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2017, 01:33:31 PM »
I dropped the rack on my Pro-street with offset bushings made for a Fox
body. I don't think it made any more difference than it made when the heavy
motor (351w) made the front drop about 2in. The rack only dropped
half hole, which is all the room there is to drop it (1977 W/ manual rack).
I needed all the space I could get to clear my after market pan.
Bill

Offline dick1172762

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2017, 02:03:46 PM »
I've spent weeks trying to get zero bump steer on several race cars, only to find out on the track that the race car drove / handled the very same way as before. If the car drives ok, leave it alone. A V-8 Pinto will NEVER be a road racer regardless of what you do or who you are, and if you try, you'll end up in a ditch or worse.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline blink77

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2017, 03:02:01 PM »
 I think you hit the nail on the head Dick!!!!!
Bill

Offline dick1172762

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2017, 05:01:07 PM »
I have seen one V-8 Pinto that was a fast road racer. It had a Boss 302 engine moved back at least 12 inches. Don't think that'll work on the street though. BTW once the front wheels are on the ground and the car is settled down the bump steer is of no importance as only the toe matters at that point. At least till you hit a bump or run off the track and then re-enter the track. So make sure you stay on the track and all will be fine.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Tonycando

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2017, 09:32:28 PM »
Where does the 1/2-20 go? Is it where the hemi joint will go? Sounds really big doesn't it? Bump steer is when the car launch's and lifts up the toe changes. Really no big deal unless its way out. Toe in, no big deal in the handling. Toe out and the car will wander on the big end, big deal. Just drive it first before you cut and weld or heat and bend. You need to know what the toe does before you do anything. String it and see what it does when you lift the car. FIRST!

The 1/2" x 20 is supposed to be the size of thread the tie rod turns onto,sound advise taken. Maybe I am chasing something that might not be an issue.

Thanks

Offline Reeves1

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 09:02:30 AM »
That would be a no , the 71 and 72 had the same rack , the 73 rack is a one only , but took the same tie rod ends as the 71/72 ,   But since you stuffed a Cleveland in it you just may have to drop the tie rod ends , make an adaptor or go smaller helm joints , try looking at aircraft spruce, they have aero space grade helm joints to be safe , hope this helps , and one more thing you could check is a company called flaming river , they made a 71/72 pinto rack copy , it might have the larger tie rods , not sure , great if they did , later Blaine

Bought one. It's different than an OEM rack. You would have to use U-joints (I have them as well) & the tie rod ends are the same size as OEM.

I was going to drop the one in the white car. Gave up on the idea.
So, Tony, if you want I can ship the rack & heim (sp ?) to you ?

Offline Tonycando

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2017, 01:29:51 AM »
Bought one. It's different than an OEM rack. You would have to use U-joints (I have them as well) & the tie rod ends are the same size as OEM.

I was going to drop the one in the white car. Gave up on the idea.
So, Tony, if you want I can ship the rack & heim (sp ?) to you ?

So is it the Flaming River rack you have. . 

Offline Reeves1

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Re: 1971 Pinto bumpsteer topic
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2017, 05:23:22 AM »
Yes