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Author Topic: New project... 1980 Runabout  (Read 65003 times)

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Offline r4pinto

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #510 on: September 23, 2017, 06:27:25 AM »
I put on a new gas cap and the car somewhat starts better. Not completely, but a little bit. I am going to pull the carburetor off the car to replace the EGR gasket, and carburetor to intake gasket to see if that helps. The choke works but fast idle does not. Since the car sat for so long, as did the carb I will tear the carb apart to see if there is any rust in the bowl since later in the week it had slight issues going, especially when the engine is not up to temp.
Matt Manter
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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #511 on: September 23, 2017, 07:31:12 AM »
Matt,
 I'll throw another variable in the mix. If you received a benefit from the new cap, There's a evap issue in the mix. The retention of tank vapor to allow the Charcoal canister to work properly is dependent on many factors. Any ethanol mixed fuel compounds the canister purge function as the Phase separation will soak the matrix in the canister if the fuel is allowed to sit for any length of time beyond a week. If your canister has experienced "breakout" then the fumes will be obvious near the front of the vehicle. The Purge valve is a connection to the Intake from the canister and it can fail to function, creating many start and drivability issues. ( My 84 VW GTI  with non electronic CIS injection drives me nuts on this with Cal RFG fuels, and the canisters have to be rebuilt to keep the vapors to a minimum).
 Also another influencing factor could be Leaks at the Crankcase venting to PCV or even the Oil filler cap. It all must be vapor tight to limit influence on the Mixture when hot or cold starts are an issue.
 These are the ones that give you gray hair, or just hair loss like me :P

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Offline r4pinto

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #512 on: September 23, 2017, 08:17:58 AM »
So the new cap now retains pressure on the system which is causing a possible evap system issue? Possibly because it is not hooked up like a 1980 but a 1977 that didn’t have similar emissions?


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1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #513 on: September 23, 2017, 01:01:37 PM »
I'll need to look into how the Pinto allows air into the tank to avoid collapsing the tank, but in the case of my CIS K jetronic GTI, the tank has to have a non vented cap in order to hold pressure to prime the electric fuel pump. Later , the Golf used a in tank pump and the External pump to send fuel to the  fuel injection distributor. This was to avoid vapor lock in the Lines and the Evap was changed to have electrically controlled  purge valves in the system to avoid the pre OBD 1 systems showing a pressure drop in the evap if the cap was left loose, or missing.
 In summary, There must be a way for fresh air to enter, but not leave the tank ( Except as fumes) so the canister system can do it's job. If it isn't hooked up correctly, you have potential for an air leak while running if the Purge valve hangs up. The mixture settings of the Carb are recalibrated to allow for the intake of addition fuel vapor from the canister. To unhook or incorrectly connect the lines is the way to frustration or Operation that is Pre Smog  control in nature.
 It's just me venting Again ;D
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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #514 on: September 24, 2017, 08:42:38 AM »
Both of my Late model references show the 1980 using a Pressure/Vacuum gas cap. Not a sealed non vented unit. It appears the tank will stabilize the container with the cap. The fresh air for the canister is drawn in through the canister top. The fuel separator and expansion valve is in the top of the tank. The one hard line (not fuel line) for the fuel vapor is the hose at the canister to the frame. The other "duct " goes to the air cleaner housing from the canister. BTW, if the canister is OLD, rebuilding it may be possible if you can separate the lid from the base. Using a new Activated charcoal granule pack for fish tank water filters is the right stuff. It comes in different size chunks, so match it up at the local Pet store.
 And Never overfill ( Let the pump nozzle do its job ) the tank at fill up or you'll have to do this all over again ;D
 Let us know what you find out..
  Pintosopher, riding a goat trail to the ranch, stepping aside the Road Apples :o
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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #515 on: September 24, 2017, 08:47:24 AM »
At least the overfill is sometimes I don’t do. I learned that with my 2015 Sonic that I owned  lol. The original gas cap was on the car and was of a similar style to the new one I got. Before I put the new cap it would take much more to start the car so I know the cap had something to do with that. I am going to pull the carburetor off the car today and also try to connect some of the vacuum lines, including some that I think were the charcoal cannister using pics of one I saw at the Pinto vs Maverick car show. I needed a diagram and that car gave it to me. Now, there is a funky solenoid on top of the old carburetor that I cannot connect since it is not present on the current one. Could that have something to do with it?


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1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #516 on: September 24, 2017, 08:54:35 AM »
Does the car have wiring for the Solenoid ? A single wire connector spade? You may have the dreaded Idle solenoid plunger application. It's supposed to open the Butterflies ever so slightly when the key is turned on to start the car and hold the curb idle while the plunger is extended. This whole deal was to allow the butterflies to close completely when the key was turned off, thereby stopping the potential for Run on (Dieseling) .
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #517 on: September 24, 2017, 09:01:47 AM »
Well that solenoid did come on the car but not currently there. The one I am talking to is a solenoid on the top front of the carburetor held on with three screws in the area of the fuel filter. The 1980 carburetor had it, the frankencarb on the car did not. I say frankencarb because the top plate is from the 77 and the body from a 76. The 77 ran good with the carb. The top that was on the 76 carb had a leaky plug on the end so I swapped tops.


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1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #518 on: September 24, 2017, 09:10:10 AM »
It appears to be the switching bowl vent. This vents the fuel bowl fumes to the Canister with the engine off, and when your start the car the fumes are routed to the Air cleaner. Another way to stop fuel vapor from evaporating to the outside air in emissions speak.
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #519 on: September 24, 2017, 09:11:16 AM »
That’s it. Couldn’t recall the name. Is it possible that not being there is causing an issue?


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1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #520 on: September 24, 2017, 09:16:05 AM »
It might be an issue if the lack of its presence allows a air leak beneath the Choke plates... as an example:  a bypass when the chokes need to restrict the air to the venturis in the carb throats
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Offline r4pinto

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #521 on: September 24, 2017, 09:17:24 AM »
Ok gotcha. Hopefully after I replace those two gaskets (EGR and carb to intake) the car will run better.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #522 on: September 25, 2017, 11:57:20 AM »
So this weekend it was too hot to work on the car after I cycled for 9 miles and cut the grass which left the car not touched. Drove to the store and it ran ok. I let it warm up 3-5 mins and all was ok. Still has the messed up fast idle but at least it drove fine. This upcoming weekend it will be back down to the 60s and 70s so I can work on fixing it.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Offline dick1172762

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #523 on: September 25, 2017, 01:06:00 PM »
What ever you do, keep up the good work. Car looks better every time I see a picture of it.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #524 on: September 25, 2017, 07:45:02 PM »
What ever you do, keep up the good work. Car looks better every time I see a picture of it.
Thanks. Plugging away at it one issue at a time. It’s not as easy to work on currently since it’s my current daily driver due to no working blower motor on my Malibu which due to being an electronic blower controller will cost about $200 to replace. Back to this car though.

I drove the car Friday and something was off. It just seemed off and with the higher temperatures I drove my Dad’s car to a football game. Sunday I drove my car and was fine. This morning it was fine as it was also after work. But after I left the gym it was not responding to acceleration as well, as if fuel or spark was off. Whatever the issue it doesn’t affect it to where it’s not drivable but to where it misfires more and can be felt. I am thinking possibly an issue with the distributor, ignition coil, or module since it happened after the car sat for a couple hours. This weekend it is cooler so I will find out later on.


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1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #525 on: September 25, 2017, 08:29:46 PM »
Check for any temp sensor that ties the vacuum system control to the cooling system jacket. This will affect timing and even carburetor system controls. Of course. an electrical component failure related to temp underhood. could also be in the mix too.
Pintosopher ,Looping the TVSS into lunacy :P :P
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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #526 on: September 25, 2017, 08:31:07 PM »
Check for any temp sensor that ties the vacuum system control to the cooling system jacket. This will affect timing and even carburetor system controls. Of course. an electrical component failure related to temp underhood. could also be in the mix too.
Pintosopher ,Looping the TVSS into lunacy :P :P
It’s not hooked up actually. Due to the way the vacuum lines are hooked up. The 77 did not have it but the 80 did. This weekend I hope to get it closer.


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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #527 on: September 25, 2017, 08:36:16 PM »
OK, will retreat until you check back in  8)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #528 on: September 26, 2017, 06:43:18 AM »
OK, will retreat until you check back in  8)
It gets more interesting. Seems there is a “flat spot” on the carburetor. Don’t know how else to describe it. Cold or warm if you give it gas it stumbles and nearly dies before accelerating. I almost got hit twice this morning because it just wouldn’t go initially. I may see if I can get the original carb unclogged and functional this weekend. It has all new gaskets and been rebuilt but a plugged jet somewhere so no fuel flowing. I would spray starter fluid in and she would start but die. I found gas in the bowl but wouldn’t spray. A shame since she ran great on the old carb.

Regardless I will do a carb swap, whether it be with that carb or another spare I have cleaned up. I will also change fuel filters since that one is from the 77 when I got her ready to go for Carlisle 2010.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #529 on: September 26, 2017, 06:51:25 AM »
OK, will retreat until you check back in  8)

I am also going to do what you suggested and check the vacuum. My vacuum gauge may be MIA. If it is I will go to Autozone and rent one. I need to have one but my garage is a nightmare currently, and I will lose it, like I lose everything else. Hard to believe I can fit a couple cars in there  :P
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1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #530 on: September 26, 2017, 07:00:48 AM »
I am also going to do what you suggested and check the vacuum. My vacuum gauge may be MIA. If it is I will go to Autozone and rent one. I need to have one but my garage is a nightmare currently, and I will lose it, like I lose everything else. Hard to believe I can fit a couple cars in there  :P
When you get a vacuum gauge, see if the reading jumps erratically in sync with the flat spot. Still could be a air leak related to vacuum controls , but you'll have to isolate those when you change carbs. Black smoke while the flat spot is there, is over rich flooding from the Accelerator Pump circuit.
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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #531 on: September 26, 2017, 07:05:15 AM »
When you get a vacuum gauge, see if the reading jumps erratically in sync with the flat spot. Still could be a air leak related to vacuum controls , but you'll have to isolate those when you change carbs. Black smoke while the flat spot is there, is over rich flooding from the Accelerator Pump circuit.
One thing I’ve noticed... no smoke when idling unless cold with the choke closed, but in that case I know it is running rich because the choke is closed. Plug checks showed clean plugs and I’m getting 23-24mpg. If I speed 21 mpg. When revving I will see if anything is coming out when I work on the car this weekend. I’m at the point where driving to and from work I need it better. For car shows it was acceptable but for daily driving it needs to be right.


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1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #532 on: September 26, 2017, 07:06:07 AM »
One thing I’ve noticed... no smoke when idling unless cold with the choke closed, but in that case I know it is running rich because the choke is closed. Plug checks showed clean plugs and I’m getting 23-24mpg. If I speed 21 mpg. When revving I will see if anything is coming out when I work on the car this weekend. I’m at the point where driving to and from work I need it better. For car shows it was acceptable but for daily driving it needs to be right.


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I appreciate the suggestions and hopefully will find something to get it right.


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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #533 on: September 26, 2017, 09:10:06 AM »
Have you tried spraying water down the carb while the engine is running? You don't need much water. I use a pump spray bottle like a Windex bottle. Work's very good and you will not believe all the junk that the exhaust will blow out the tail pipe. The spray of water will not rust or in any way hurt the engine. Work's for me.
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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #534 on: September 26, 2017, 09:14:31 AM »
Have you tried spraying water down the carb while the engine is running? You don't need much water. I use a pump spray bottle like a Windex bottle. Work's very good and you will not believe all the junk that the exhaust will blow out the tail pipe. The spray of water will not rust or in any way hurt the engine. Work's for me.
I’ve not heard of that. What does it do?


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1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #535 on: September 26, 2017, 09:18:45 AM »
I’ve not heard of that. What does it do?


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Found some info. Interesting reading. May have to try it


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1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #536 on: September 26, 2017, 11:28:48 AM »
I’ve not heard of that. What does it do?


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   It makes steam in the cylinder which attacks carbon build up. I've used it all my life with no problems at all. DO NOT try this with a water hose. Use only a spray bottle with a fine mist. You can not use too much as it pass's out through the exhaust pipe. You may have to up the rpm while doing this.
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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #537 on: September 26, 2017, 11:37:56 AM »
   It makes steam in the cylinder which attacks carbon build up. I've used it all my life with no problems at all. DO NOT try this with a water hose. Use only a spray bottle with a fine mist. You can not use too much as it pass's out through the exhaust pipe. You may have to up the rpm while doing this.
I have a squirt bottle for my cats so I can use that. I will give it a try. Couldn’t hurt


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1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #538 on: September 29, 2017, 11:51:26 AM »
Well the vacuum modulator didn’t hold out after it started to go and she was going through transmission fluid. Smoked like crazy once it failed completely. I ordered on through Rockauto and it got delivered today. I’ve been driving my dad’s car the past couple days and will get my car fixed tonight. It will be nice to have it back on the road and save money on gas. I may blow out the line with carb cleaner to get as much fluid out of the vacuum line as possible. The bright side is that transmission fluid will clean the carbon right out of the engine.


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Re: New project... 1980 Runabout
« Reply #539 on: September 29, 2017, 12:08:18 PM »
I have known several really good gear heads that would put a quart of ATF in their engines to clean them out before they drained the oil out. Don't see how it could hurt.
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