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Author Topic: Borg Warner T-5 speed install  (Read 30853 times)

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Pintony

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Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« on: October 18, 2005, 08:06:36 PM »
Hello Group,
 I got my NEW Borg warner T-5 tonight. I will be showing how I rebuild and install this tranny in the coming weeks. I have hurt my old T-5 and will be replacing it with this newly aquired unit.
 This is the "World Class" T-5
My install will be behind a 2.0 Turbo BUT should help othersW 2.3 in their quest for overdrive tranny.
From Pintony

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2005, 08:15:49 PM »
Tony, have you decided how to handle the input shaft length and O.D. sizes?
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2005, 08:38:28 PM »
Hey Brad,
 Do you know the difference between the WC and NWC?
From Pintony

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2005, 08:54:40 PM »
Hello Group,
 Here is the difference between the WC and NWC Borg warner T-5.
I will als be listing ways to I.D the WC and the NWC.

World Class & Non-World Class
There are two basic kinds of T-5's, Non World Class (NWC) and World Class (WC). The first T-5 was non-world class.  In 1983 and 84 Ford used the Non-World Class T-5 to improve the Mustangs performance and gas mileage. All the V8 NWC boxes had 2.95 first gear set with .68 overdrive.  All the main output shaft gears and 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gears riding on a solid output shaft with deep oil grooves to provide lubrication.  The lower counter gears spin on straight cylindrical bearings with a thrust washer in front to provide support when under load. All the synchronizer rings are made of solid bronze which are of different size than those found in a would-class T-5.  It is because there is no bearing under each gear and the bronze synchro rings that the NWC use the heavy 70w gear oil. Torque rating for the NWC was 265ft/lbs.

1985, Ford introduced the World Class T-5 installed with 3.35 first gear set with a .68od behind the 5.OL.  T-5 was also used behind both the standard 2.3L with a 3.97 first gearset and the SVO Mustang.  SVO received a one year only 3.50 first gear ratio as the 3.97 gear ratio was too low for the added power of the turbo charged 2.3L.  No longer were 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears spinning on a solid output shaft as needle bearings were installed under each gear to reduce drag. The lower counter gears saw tapered bearings to replace the bronze thrust washer.  All main shaft synchro's were fiber lined steel rings to improve rings friction surface while 5th remains bronze. By improving the surface friction the synchro slows the gear faster making for smoother shifts. The design remained the same until 1989.  Torque rating remained the same at 265ft/lbs.

From Pintony

Offline 78pinto

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2005, 10:57:11 PM »
if this works out for you Tony, i'll move it to the FAQ section when your done if thats ok with you.  Jeff
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2005, 11:26:13 PM »
Hello Jeff,
  Please! Feel free to do what you feel is best for the Pinto group.
 From Pintony
 

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2005, 09:53:03 AM »
Hey Brad,
 Do you know the difference between the WC and NWC?
From Pintony

Tony, Im not quite sure what you mean. Was it a question that you needed an answer to or a statement?
Brad F
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1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
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Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2005, 10:00:50 AM »
To see the differences of these trans. Please click on the PDF file below and rotate it correctly. You might want to print it out for future use. This file shows the input shaft length and OD size differences for the different T5 applications.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2005, 10:08:50 PM »
Hey Brad,
 As I understand it...., the tranny I have "IS" the WC style
My NEW tranny is the 8th one down on your list. 162
Everything I read is that the 4 cylinder T-5 is also WC.
 The difference as I understand it is the WC has fiber syncros Except 5th gear and the NWC has brass on all 5 gears. Also the WC has tapered roller bearings all around The NWC has needle bearings.
 Please let us know if you have a different view.
 From Pintony

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2005, 10:01:32 PM »
Hello Group,
 I ordered my T-5 rebuild kit today.
I also ordered a 6 tooth drive gear for my speedometer.
Should be here in a few days.
Anxious to see what I get.
There are companys that list some basic parts kit and some that offer Master parts kits.
I got my kit from http://www.gearstogo.com/
I dealt with the company owner Brent.
He called me back 3 times to help answer my questions and get me the 6 tooth gear I wanted.
Thats Service!!!!!
I know there are more companys with BIGGER names out there BUT Brent helped me out and really seemed like he wanted to provide the service I needed for my 4cylinder T-5 rebuild.
 Other companys I called acted like if I was not doing a V8 tranny they did not have time to deal with me.
We will see if the shipping is as good as the service. ;D


From Pintony

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2005, 08:22:58 AM »
Hello Group,
 Here is a photo of a rebuild kit for the NWC Borg Warner T-5.
 Notice the Brass syncros and the caged roller bearings this is why the NWC is less desireable.
 The brass syncros make for clunky shifting and the caged roller bearings do not provide good side lateral support for the stresses of masive torq.
From Pintony

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner 5 speed install
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2005, 08:30:35 AM »
Hello Group,
 Here is a photo of the WC Borg Warner T-5.
Notice the fiber lined steel syncros and the taperd needle bearings.
The WC T-5 gear clusters ride on needle bearings too.
 Unlike the NWC that ride directly on the shaft.

Remember this ALL kits are NOT created equal!
The price varies as much as the pieces included in each sellers kit.

From Pintony

Offline gearhead440

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2005, 11:13:32 AM »
I purchased a T-5 out of a 2.3 turbo T-bird.  Is there a way to know by looking externally if the trans is WC or NWC ???.  Thanks!
Speed is only a question of money: Just how fast do you want to go?

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2005, 11:27:47 AM »
Hello Gearhead440,
 That is a great question!
Depending on year of your transmission??? The WC will have an electrical plug in the top cover.
See the list of WC trannysthat Brad posted above for your part number. If you have the tag.
From Pintony

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2005, 11:01:52 PM »
Hello Group,
 I got my WC T-5 transmission rebuild kit today.
 It came from gearstogo.com
I have to say... I'm not happy.
I can not recomend this company.
 There are many service items missing from this kit.
 For what I payed... I got burned BIG time!
This kit will be going back.
 I have already ordered a T-5 kit from Hanlon. Be here mon. or tues.
 I'll be posting the photos and the shipping reciepts with prices later.
I have had NO luck in finding a way to use the Steel bearing retainer from the V8 tranny to use on the 4 cylinder tranny.
 It seems FORD in their infinate wizdom decided to play god again and actually put a BIGGER bearing in the Turbo 4 tranny.
 I guess I'm stuck with the aluminum bearing retainer for now.
From Pintony

Offline UltimatePinto

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2005, 12:53:30 AM »
Hey Pintony,

Looking at your research I have to say I'm flabbergasted! :o

Had no idea of all the variations. I picked up my first one, (it has the plug in the top cover), but after the install I found I couldn't downshift from 4th to 3rd gears. I got another one like it, (both were discarded from local ministock racers who can't use them on a 1/3rd mile circle track), and had it rebuilt from a friend who does drivetrain stuff for these guys. Where the boxes came from I don't know, Mustangs I think as that's what they race.

By bearing retainer, are you talking the front input shaft one?  You know, the one the thrust bearing rides on?  I guess it's a bearing retainer.
Anyway, I tried to use a replacement from Jeg's that was touted as being better for the thrust bearing to ride on. When I tried to put the thrust shaft bearing on it - twas too big a shaft. Had to send it back. Afterwards, I had to use a different thrust shaft bearing, one that was longer from stem to Stearn as well for my application.
 There are two different sizes available from Walsh and Esslinger, forgot which one I used but it worked with the original 4 cyl retainer.

Also, (and this is a first for me), my first T-5 had ATF for lube. I've heard of it in air compressor pumps, but never in manual transmissions, just me I guess.
Is gear oil better, like 70 weight, or is the ATF the yellow brick road?
What do you run in yours? Are seals affected by either one, I wouldn't think so.
What do you figure?

Al

Offline Bipper

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2005, 10:55:26 AM »
UltimatePinto,

Don't use gear oil in the trans. WC T-5 with fiber syncos use ATF.
I can't remember exactly but gear oil will either ruin them or prevent
the trans from shifting properly.

Bob
71 Sedan, stock
72 Pangra
73 Runabout, 2L turbo propane

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2005, 11:08:54 AM »
Hello Group,
 I agree with Bipper!
The T-5 uses about 3 Qt. ATF Not gear oil.
 A good rule of thumb is... If yur tranny has a Cast-iron case it uses 70wt. gear oil if the case is aluminum it uses ATF.
CHECK with your local Ford dealer if you have doubt.
 From Pintony

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2005, 12:08:09 PM »
Hello Group,
 I agree with Bipper!
The T-5 uses about 3 Qt. ATF Not gear oil.
 A good rule of thumb is... If yur tranny has a Cast-iron case it uses 70wt. gear oil if the case is aluminum it uses ATF.
CHECK with your local Ford dealer if you have doubt.
 From Pintony


Yeah, and its really fun to fill the trans up with ATF when its in the car. I use a hand pump and it works real good.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2005, 05:22:27 PM »
A BIG funnel with a 3 to 4 foot piece of 3/8 fuel hose works too.
But it takes patience to allow the slow mooooving fluid to go down the small tubing.
"Something I lack"
I'm with Brad though I use the pump that connects to the bottle too.
From Pintony

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2005, 09:16:28 AM »
Hello Group,
 Here is my T-5 case cleaned and ready to start re-assembly.

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2005, 09:22:53 AM »
Here is The case in the bearing press ready to have the front cluster bearing race installed.
 Notice the old race already pressed out.

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2005, 09:23:04 AM »
Hey Tony, If you really want to impress the group, polish the case.......... ........... ;D ;D :o :o ;) :police:
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2005, 09:27:59 AM »
Here is the main shaft with the rear 1st gear and 5th gear re-installed.
 Notice the BLACK 6-tooth speedo gear I have installed.
The 7-tooth yellow is the gear I'm replacing. This gear is only placed just to show the difference.
 

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2005, 09:29:28 AM »
Hey Tony, If you really want to impress the group, polish the case.......... ........... ;D ;D :o :o ;) :police:

Hey Brad,
 Who is going to see the my shiney transmission at 130 MPH???? ;D

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2005, 09:59:28 AM »
Hey Tony, If you really want to impress the group, polish the case.......... ........... ;D ;D :o :o ;) :police:

Hey Brad,
 Who is going to see the my shiney transmission at 130 MPH???? ;D

I will " know" its shiny and therefore asume your car is going faster than it is........... ;D ;D :o
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2005, 01:26:18 AM »
Nearly complete T-5 output shaft.

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2005, 01:29:29 AM »
Here I have the output shaft re-installed in the case.

Pintony

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2005, 01:35:34 AM »
Here is my T-5 fully re-assembled.
I still have to set the end play. But I'm still trying to find a way to use the V8 Steel bearing retainer.
Notice how this bearing retainer has large amount of wear.

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Borg Warner T-5 speed install
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2005, 09:31:11 AM »
Here is my T-5 fully re-assembled.
I still have to set the end play. But I'm still trying to find a way to use the V8 Steel bearing retainer.
Notice how this bearing retainer has large amount of wear.


Yeah, thats what happens when your flywheel/clutch/pressure plate assy comes off the end of the crank shaft and spins wildly around on that shaft in the bellhousing... .............. ::) ::) :o :o :'( ( It happend to me to ).... :'(
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto