Author Topic: 73 Wagon Project - Brownie (Read 30066 times)

dave1987 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 22, 2009, 02:30:23 PM »

That's what I was thinking David, but I just replaced it. The old one didn't work, which is why it wouldn't crank in the first place. Maybe I got a dud?

dave1987 · « **Reply #31 on:** December 22, 2009, 11:42:48 PM »

I got a lot of work done on the wagon today!

1) Replaced turn signal cam, and lever (with the proper full chrome lever)
2) Changed out the headlights
3) Removed remnants of the front grill
4) Replaced bulbs on right side marker lights (now working!)
5) Replaced backup lamp bulbs (left side was missing)
6) Replaced door lock....plasti c...chrome things
7) Tested alternator at Schucks (found out it's dead)
8 ) Removed the ghetto trampoline spring alternator tensioning.... thing
9) Replaced all the bulbs in the instrument cluster
10) Found out the shifter light is burnt out
11) Got the e-brake to work! Tightened up the bolt at the handle to add tension to the cable. It must be stretched like crazy!
12) Jacked up the car and looked around a bit, found a broken mount for the transmission.

13) Got the car to crank properly!

You were right David, it was the solenoid! I guess Autozone sold me a dud, now they are questioning against replacing it since they don't replace electrical parts. I don't want a refund, just a working switch!!! :mad: :mad: I put the one that came with the car back on and connected it properly. It cranks just fine now!

After removing the ghetto alternator mounting and found out some terrible facts about the distributor.

When going to put everything back together again, I found out an even worse fact about the alternator bracket!!!

There is this bracket thing that hangs off the bottom of the transmission's tail shaft. It is bolted to the transmission with two bolts, then angles downward and hands almost right above the exhaust pipe. It's about 18 inches long (if I were to guess), and the lowest section of it is about 1.25 inches thick (also a guess). It is broken in about the middle of the lower thick section. What is this the purpose of this bracket/mount?

?

dave1987 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 22, 2009, 11:53:20 PM »

First off, the distributor... .

I think someone changed something on the ignition system, or it's a pertronix unit. I can't seem to find any points in it anywhere!

There is however a four tabbed "spinner", with what appears to be an optical sensor or magnet like my 78's duraspark has. Not to sure....

Anyhow, one of the tabs are broken on the "spinner" so I'm thinking I'm going to need to replace the whole unit.

Also, there is this weird looking module that is mounted to the firewall. The distributor wires and one wire from the battery side of the coil go into this module. The only thing I can't think it might be is a pertronix ignition module, if the ignition system was upgraded.

Does anyone know what type of distributor this is or where I can get a replacement unit from (or other cars that would have it)

Also notice the destroyed vacuum advance from the ghetto alternator mounting.

dave1987 · « **Reply #33 on:** December 22, 2009, 11:56:02 PM »

Now the issue with the alternator bracket....Arg g! so frustrating!!!!

It appears that someone over tightened the bolts and sheered them off on the head of the motor.

This would explain the crazy setup that was present, to add tension to the alternator belt!

What do I need to do to fix this? Is there any way of saving it without removing the head of the motor and sending it to a shop, or do I need a new head for it all together???

dave1987 · « **Reply #34 on:** December 23, 2009, 12:00:39 AM »

Here are some pictures of what the lil pony looked like after I finished up with her today!

dave1987 · « **Reply #35 on:** December 23, 2009, 12:45:50 AM »

Found some info on the distributor. By googling "pertronix module", I came up with a photo of a VW Bosch Distributor. From the picture, it looks identical to what's in the wagon. From what I can tell, it uses an optical sensor instead of a magnetic pickup or points.

http://cranecams.com/images/downloadable/FireBall_Ignition/Distributor%20VW%20Bosch%20w%20XR700%20XR3000%20(All%20PNs).jpg

Also, from what I have gathered, I believe that module on the fender is an ignition amplifier.

blupinto · « **Reply #36 on:** December 23, 2009, 03:55:59 PM »

Oh, Dave, it's so good to see her ALIVE! Congratulation s on getting her fired up and her lights lighting. I'm hoping your sheared bolt issue and broken bracker thing won't be too hard to fix. She really is a beauty! Merry Christmas.

dave1987 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 23, 2009, 11:46:26 PM »

Well she wasn't really running, I just turned the lights on to show that it all works now.

Getting it started is going to be a bit of an adventure. Need to find a replacement distributor, or the parts to fix the one I've got. Then it's a matter of helicoil-ing the bolts holes on the head to get the alternator bracket back on.

Got the replacement starter solenoid exchanged at Autozone today, and picked up a new coil for it with the $20 in rewards points that I had on my Autozone card.

Making progress! Rather quickly too!

71pintoracer · « **Reply #38 on:** December 24, 2009, 08:07:52 AM »

Great progress Dave! To answer some of your questions, the bracket hanging from the trans is a vibration damper. I have probably thrown away a bunch of them! Not sure if any of my old trannies still have them or not, if so I will send you one. Only problem is they are buried under two feet of snow! And the way the weather forcast is sounding, it's not going anywhere soon.
As far as the dist, seems to me that was on some of the '73's instead of points. Kind of an early attempt of the duraspark. Finding one of those distributors could be a challenge. Maybe take the guts out of the VW dist and swap it into yours? Or you could get rid of that set-up and put in a points dist. That would be the easiest, drop it in, one wire to the coil and you're running.

dave1987 · « **Reply #39 on:** December 26, 2009, 06:23:41 PM »

So, after hours of research, I have found out some info on the distributor.

It is most likely the original distributor.

It has a Crane Cams Fireball XR700 ignition system installed, meaning the distributor has been "gutted" for it. I cannot find any info about the broken disc that I have, aside that it is called the "Optic Trigger", and it is only available with the purchase of the optic trigger installation kit. The kit includes the optic sensor, installation hardware, and 5 or 6 different trigger discs for use with different motors.

Does anyone know of ANYWHERE that I might be able to find just the discs, or just the disc I need for the Ford 2.0 distributor? I would really like to use this breaker-less ignition system if I can get it working.

If I can't get this ignition system to work, how hard would it be to convert the distributor back to points? Just purchase a set of points and a condenser and call it good?

larjohnson · « **Reply #40 on:** December 27, 2009, 11:19:46 AM »

WOW!!!! just checked your thread for the first time in days...the car is coming along nicely... Keep up the good work....Larry :police:

skunky56 · « **Reply #41 on:** December 27, 2009, 03:37:34 PM »

Dave, the pointless system IS the best way to go with your stock dist. Dump the crane system the problem is the optical trigger instead of the magnetic , install the pertronix with their 40k volt coil and if your feeling sassy an MSD 6AL box. I have that system in my 72 2.0 it works wonderfully ,the 2.0 loves hot spark the hotter the better.You will have to run a straight 12v from your switch to trigger the PES, also the Crane system needs the same 12v trigger not the stepped down 9v the points require. Hope this helps.

Paul

dave1987 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 27, 2009, 04:45:32 PM »

What about converting it back to points temporarily? Can I just remove the Crane system and put points and a condenser back in?

71pintoracer · « **Reply #43 on:** December 27, 2009, 05:12:40 PM »

That would be the easiest thing to do just to get it running and moveable. If the resistor wire is missing you can run the points system on 12V, it's just harder on the points.

dave1987 · « **Reply #44 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:04:12 PM »

Sounds good. I will try to pull a resistor wire from another car at the junk yard, at least, so I can get it moving under its own power.

Now, how about that demolished vacuum advance valve?

pintosopher · « **Reply #45 on:** December 28, 2009, 01:03:53 PM »

Dave,
Are you sure the the Resistor wire is not in the harness? I know that My '73 harness that I put in my '72 still has it's R wire. (I was making my race car Street legal again) I have a Mallory Unilite pointless Dist and Coil, I just attached the Wire to the usual wiring diagram connections and it worked fine.
My Original '72 harness was gutted for racing and had a heavy gauge wire with EXTERNAL stand alone Ceramic resistor on the coil circuit.
I also ran my car without a Vacuum advance for awhile on the standard Dist without a Problem. The issue is important only for Smog Check and Improved economy.

Hope you find this helpful, Great progress on your car!

Pintosopher

dave1987 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 29, 2009, 01:24:21 AM »

Well I got the ignition swapped out!

Brownie now has a new starter solenoid, ignition coil, points, condenser, plugs, wires, cap and battery!!

Now the bad news....

I had my dad crank the car while I observed the distributor rotor turn, except.......t he rotor didn't turn!

Well, after removing the accessory belts, belt cover, fan AND RADIATOR, I was finally able to remove tension from the timing belt to pull it away from the crank sprocket to see what was going on. Sure enough! The teeth around the crank sprocket, on the timing belt, and torn off, leaving nothing but a smooth belt on the toothy side of the belt!

I tried to remove the belt, without cutting it, but the pulley was in the way and I couldn't get it out. I couldn't get the pulley to come off, even after removing the bolt, because it's so stuck on the crank shaft end!

Tomorrow I will be getting a pulley puller from the parts store (rental of coarse), and a new timing belt.

Once the belt is on, timing set, and plugs gaped and installed, it should be ready for it's first start!!!!

Now lies the question, how do I set the timing on this thing? No marks on the belt cover like my 2.3 has..... :\

TIGGER · « **Reply #47 on:** December 29, 2009, 01:29:11 AM »

Dave, I believe the 2.0 L has the timing marks on the balancer. The pointer is on the cover.

dave1987 · « **Reply #48 on:** December 29, 2009, 03:13:23 AM »

Little bit of a problem.....It looks like the cover didn't get bolted down entirely at some time in it's past, and well.........

The crank pulley seems to have cut through half of the belt cover and ripped the timing pointer off. :reek:

oldkayaker · « **Reply #49 on:** December 29, 2009, 05:44:01 AM »

I should have read this post before giving a verbose answer to your other post. So you do have a 2.0. Although not precise, you could line up where the fixed pointer broke off to the timing marks on the pulley (assumes there is something left of your front cover). Although a cast piece, that fixed pointer is a stout piece with reinforcement ribs (must have taken some significant pounding).

Great progress on a nice project, have fun.

dave1987 · « **Reply #50 on:** December 30, 2009, 02:28:43 AM »

In a separate thread I started about timing a 2.0, one said that the timing marks are on the main seal assembly. I won't know until I go to put the new belt on the motor, but things are so dirty I couldn't see anything. I'll let y'all know though!

Got more work done on the car today. Had to get a three jaw gear puller from Autozone's tool rental to pull the crank pulley. After about 45 minutes of wrestling with the flimsy thing to get it to actually PULL the pulley off (it was on there pretty good!!), I was able to remove the old belt.

Unfortunately this involved pulling the condenser from the A/C system. At least it was empty so I didn't have to deal with any R-12 leakage! The GOOD side is, that I was able to blow out the fins of both the radiator and the condenser with the blower attachment for the air compressor! Nice and clean now!

After getting the pulley off and blowing out the radiator and condenser, I cleaned up some of the prettier parts of the motor, as well as cleaned up the pulley's a bit, getting them ready for new belts.

Here's what the timing belt looks like right now, as well as the front belt cover and the air cleaner cover. I was surprised how nice they were in for being CAKED in DIRT! Especially with the stickers still on them! You can also see the damage to the belt cover from the bolts not being tightened completely.

dave1987 · « **Reply #51 on:** December 30, 2009, 02:30:58 AM »

And here are some shots of the radiator and condenser. They are actually in great shape for being 36 years old! Even still have the stickers on the fan guard! A/C sticker is in pristine shape!

dave1987 · « **Reply #52 on:** December 30, 2009, 02:33:51 AM »

And just for record's sake, here is the manufacture date on the condenser!

January 1st 1973

dave1987 · « **Reply #53 on:** December 31, 2009, 04:06:13 AM »

Thanks everyone for your help with the timing!

Got the new timing belt in today, put everything back into the engine compartment, added a bit of gas to the carb and tried to get her started.

She sputtered and stuttered, tried and tried and tried. Almost turned over completely but couldn't quite get there. Shot a lot of soot out of the tailpipe (from the damaged muffler), but never started.

Before leaving I looked around the engine compartment and there was gas on the fender. The fuel line from the pump to the carb had burst. That would explain a lot!

Tomorrow I am going to replace that line and try her again. Keeps your fingers crossed, we're almost there!

taganov · « **Reply #54 on:** December 31, 2009, 03:09:29 PM »

Quote from: dave1987 on December 22, 2009, 11:42:48 PM

I got a lot of work done on the wagon today!

1) Replaced turn signal cam, and lever (with the proper full chrome lever)
2) Changed out the headlights
3) Removed remnants of the front grill
4) Replaced bulbs on right side marker lights (now working!)
5) Replaced backup lamp bulbs (left side was missing)
6) Replaced door lock....plasti c...chrome things
7) Tested alternator at Schucks (found out it's dead)
8 ) Removed the ghetto trampoline spring alternator tensioning.... thing
9) Replaced all the bulbs in the instrument cluster
10) Found out the shifter light is burnt out
11) Got the e-brake to work! Tightened up the bolt at the handle to add tension to the cable. It must be stretched like crazy!
12) Jacked up the car and looked around a bit, found a broken mount for the transmission.

13) Got the car to crank properly!

[snip]

Sorry if this is a noob question ... but ... I have searched the threads to no avail.

Where did you get the cam and chrome turn lever? I've seen the cam on eBay, but no levers. Mine's missing the knob on the end. Am I being a pessimist and assuming that my local Ford dealer will just laugh if I ask about '72 Pinto parts?

When you say you replaced the door lock...plastic ...chrome things, do you mean the things you pull or the little chrome bushing that sits in the hole in the door? Again, where'd'ya get 'em?

I'm embarking on a project of my own ... I should take the plunge and start a thread. But we've had oh about 75 inches of snow this winter already and my '72 is sleeping peacefully in a storage unit.

r4pinto · « **Reply #55 on:** December 31, 2009, 04:07:20 PM »

Taganov, you can find the lever at a salvage yard, on just about any 1980's Ford truck or full size van. I got my lever from a Ford Econoline van.

dave1987 · « **Reply #56 on:** December 31, 2009, 06:00:51 PM »

The lock pull knobs are what I replaced, I just found some nice ones in a 76 Gran Torino wagon this year. Still on a quest for the knob trim rings, haven't found a source for them yet. Every car I find that has similar door lock knobs on it has a trim ring that is part of the door panel.

The lever I found in a 76 Mustang II, also this summer. Stock piling parts has helped a lot thus far!

Tried starting her today. She almost go going but could quite grab.

I got it to run on its own for about four or five seconds with my foot planted to the floor. It sputtered and shook and putt-putt-putted, but couldn't keep going.

This was with the fuel pump inlet with a hose on it, submerged in a gas can of fresh fuel.

Next step tasks.....

1) Pull valve cover (again) and check valve lash
2) Rebuild the carburetor
3) Drop fuel tank and clean it out. Also will install the plastic tank shield while under there.

TIGGER · « **Reply #57 on:** December 31, 2009, 10:45:36 PM »

Quote from: dave1987 on December 31, 2009, 06:00:51 PM

Still on a quest for the knob trim rings, haven't found a source for them yet. Every car I find that has similar door lock knobs on it has a trim ring that is part of the door panel.

The early 65-68 Mustangs use the plastic rings that you can buy from any Mustang parts vendor. They are clear instead of white but they get the job done. They cost about a buck a piece.

dave1987 · « **Reply #58 on:** January 04, 2010, 12:25:08 AM »

Thanks man, I know where to get replacement rings for my 78 Sedan now!

Well, today is a great day.

I drove the wagon under it's own power for the first time today, wow was it an adrenalin rush! Gotta get the video off my phone somehow...

TIGGER · « **Reply #59 on:** January 04, 2010, 02:36:51 AM »

Congradulation s

So what did you do to get it running?

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Author Topic: 73 Wagon Project - Brownie (Read 30066 times)