I should also add that i know how cheap stroking a 2.3 can be, or how much easier boost or a V8 can be to live with than a N/A screamer. Just looking for some perspective on the 2.3's N/A capabilities and costs.

The jump from 140hp to over 200hp is a serious one. You'll need high compression, large cam specs, well worked cylinder head, induction, and exhaust. Really not a streetable package considering the rpm range you'll have. Check out Esslinger Racings crate engines. They put out a little over 200hp for a starting price of $7499. Turbo or v-8 is starting to sound better eh. My $0.02. JT

You could always nitrous.  Build it with good parts, forged pistons, good rods/bolts and with good timing control you`ll have a very streetable engine with the added HP at a flip of a switch.

I agree with pintosopher, 200+ hp is a stretch without a turbo.  I'm not sure how much hp my 2.0 had, it had forged internals, 2.3 rods, ported head w/ big valves, hot cam, 4 barrel holley, mallory unilite AND nitrous. Maybe 200? But drivable? Not really. The cam had a lot of lope to it and even with a 4 speed it was a pain to drive in slow traffic.
My V8 is an '89 5.0 HO with the roller cam, runs on 89 octane, doesn't overheat, idles nice and smooth and will turn the car sideways in second gear.
My .02, 4cyl + turbo = 200 streetable hp. (and decent gas mileage)
Stock V8, 250-300 streetable hp and a blast to drive!! (gas mileage, mmmm, not so good! Can't keep my dang foot off the floor!!)

ov.....is spelled "of"

it is a matter of expectations.  For a good daily commute motor with good response around 140/150 hp is not to unusual and is doable.  Combined with a lite weight car and gearing this is a pretty good combination.

Yeah, thats my 'stage 1' plan. I've been told from a few that did this and also a couple 2.3 Fox-body guys that have lightened their cars to Pinto weights that this should pretty much make a car that can hang with stock LX 5.0L's, or say a 96 Mustang GT with the early style 4.6/5spd. Thats not fast in my books, but its not bad for a really cheap car that gets impressive mileage, not to mention looks way cooler..

My combo is based of a t-bird turbo motor with all forged internals.  I have a round port head that is getting 'cleaned up" [nothing serious], a mild better than stock cam and surfacing to bring the compression up to about 9 to 1.  I have a set of ranger headers modified to go into a 21/2 inch exhaust.  The intake is a modified 4 brl Offy unit and to that i am going to do a throttle body EFI  conversion.  This makes a very reliable engine with sporty performance. 

You say "only" 140/150 hp but you really have to consider the power to weight ratio.  that is what really important.  Consider you had a car that weights 3500lbs with a 300hp engine.  that would be a power to weight ratio of 11.7 pounds per horspower. 
Now consider that you have an engine that puts 150hp but you are dealing with a weight of only 2500 lbs.  That would give you a power to weight ratio of 16 pounds per horsepower.  will it be as quick?  No it won't but it is not that far off the 300hp car and the 150 horsepower car will be pretty quick and safe to drive.

Well actually my pinto will only be about 2000lbs, or less if i can, i'm a master ov weight-reduction. So a N/A 140-150HP 4-banger with a T5 and gears should move pretty quick. I also imagine that if i had a 240HP I4 stuffed in there with optimized trans and gears it would be in the realm ov 'fast'.

One last thought, there are a lot of cars out there with only about 200hp or less.  If that 200hp motor is in a 3500lb car the PtoW ratio would be 17.5.  see what I am getting at?  so don't down play the 150hp motor because ina light weight pinto you will be quicker  than a fair amount of cars and definately it will be safe to go play in traffic.

jim

Heh heh... well i'm certainly not concerned with 'safe'. That doesn't sound fun at all. I dont think i've ever had a 'safe' car in 20 years... But basically, i was just wondering how the 2.3 could potentially compare to the new Honda I4's in terms ov power and efficiency, even given the aftermarket available for the Ford. Not very well it seems.

Atually the 2.3 compares very favorably, particularly in reliability.  You can really lean on these things and they hold up very well.  it takes almost nothing more than stock parts [turbo long block] and the proper turbo and fuel injection upgrades to make 300hp.  More can be made and I am here to tell you that if you don't kow what you are doing 400hp to the rear wheels can get you into trouble in a real hurry.  For most the 300hp to the rear wheels will be faster than about 855 of most everything outthere.  Step up to 400 real wheel hp and there is not much the will be able to hang in with you. 
But it is like I said, it all depends on what you want.
jim

I understand what you're saying, but if i wanted to go that fast, i'll just drive my Challenger. I know i'll piss off a bunch here, but i dont see why someone would go turbo-4 over a mild, or even stock SBF (289/302) install. The  turbo will zoop as much gas, if not more than a small V8, and wont sound nearly as cool. But hey... i'm a V8 guy...

I'm just looking for a commuter. More than a daily driver, a long-range commuter (100 miles a day). But i just cannot drive a slow car. A commuter pinto needn't run 12's, but 88HP and highway gears just dont cut it, now matter HOW light it is. Heh... i tried to stay excited about driving my pinto, and it was fun because it had a stick and cost $300 (the cheaper they are, the more fun i find...), and it had 17's and Z-rated summer rubber. But straining to hold 22mph on long highway up-grades in 2nd... well, that got old fast.

I bet a 140HP N/A 2.3 with better trans and better gears and 400 less pounds will more than satisfy... but i just cannot stop thinking about those damn Hondas... . . .

Check this out:

2000-2005 (?) Honda S-2000 engine, inline-4, V-Tec DOHC, 2L, 11.1:1 CR, all aluminum, 240HP... NATURALLY ASPIRATED. The Japanese version... with its 11.7:1 CR, makes 247HP... on PUMP GAS. Backed by what many call the best 6spd RWD stick ever made, and 4.10 (i think) gears, the S-2000 goes high 13's and gets stooopid gas mileage. Just adding a GOOD set ov (set ov, listen to the V8 guy...) a really good headER, exhaust, air intake and tune, no internal mods, they can make 270+ HP.  This sucker spins 9000RPM, but can putt around under 3000 if you need to save gas. The S-2000 is also a good 700-800lbs heavier than an early pinto would be with the same powertrain...

THAT... is my new watermark.

Just thinking out loud... 

I understand what you're saying, but if i wanted to go that fast, i'll just drive my Challenger. I know i'll piss off a bunch here, but i dont see why someone would go turbo-4 over a mild, or even stock SBF (289/302) install. The  turbo will zoop as much gas, if not more than a small V8, and wont sound nearly as cool. But hey... i'm a V8 guy...

I'm just looking for a commuter. More than a daily driver, a long-range commuter (100 miles a day). But i just cannot drive a slow car. A commuter pinto needn't run 12's, but 88HP and highway gears just dont cut it, now matter HOW light it is. Heh... i tried to stay excited about driving my pinto, and it was fun because it had a stick and cost $300 (the cheaper they are, the more fun i find...), and it had 17's and Z-rated summer rubber. But straining to hold 22mph on long highway up-grades in 2nd... well, that got old fast.

I bet a 140HP N/A 2.3 with better trans and better gears and 400 less pounds will more than satisfy... but i just cannot stop thinking about those damn Hondas... . . .

Check this out:

2000-2005 (?) Honda S-2000 engine, inline-4, V-Tec DOHC, 2L, 11.1:1 CR, all aluminum, 240HP... NATURALLY ASPIRATED. The Japanese version... with its 11.7:1 CR, makes 247HP... on PUMP GAS. Backed by what many call the best 6spd RWD stick ever made, and 4.10 (i think) gears, the S-2000 goes high 13's and gets stooopid gas mileage. Just adding a GOOD set ov (set ov, listen to the V8 guy...) a really good headER, exhaust, air intake and tune, no internal mods, they can make 270+ HP.  This sucker spins 9000RPM, but can putt around under 3000 if you need to save gas. The S-2000 is also a good 700-800lbs heavier than an early pinto would be with the same powertrain...

THAT... is my new watermark.

Just thinking out loud...

Well sir now. I'll be more than happy to outrun that Challenger of yours with my turbo four cylinder Pinto. My car is a true daily driver, I can run in the 10's in the quarter mile and I still get 23 MPG. Bring it on or STFU! Sounds to me like you need to go to a Mopar or :showback: Honda site.

HEHEHE, Ok, dont listen to Chris cuz his panties are allways in a wad...... 

Getting back on topic now........... ............   

I understand about the V8 deal but also consider that turbo 4 guys really enjoy spanking those V8s on about half the cubes....

I also realize that you think the honda motor is the greatest but you are comparing apples to pears.  You have a 70s technology verse 2000 plus with all the latest technology.  can't do it.  Each should be judged on their own merit.

Yeah well, that was kinda the point ov this thread. I figured that because the Ford has such a big aftermarket, it might have a chance. I told you guys i dont know much about these engines.

Here is an idea for you, swap the honda trans and engine into the Pinto.  That way you could have the Pinto and the power of the Honda with all its realted computer gadgets and wiring and plumbing and all of that. 

For me no thanks, I will stay with the 150hp 4cyl and enjoy it.  My pinto has no problem staying up with traffic and it is very fun to drive.

Probably would if i could. Sounds like i'd end up spending all themoney i'd save on gas on the damn swap though...

BTW: The simplicity of the pinto system makes it very appealing in  these days of cars being so complicated that you have to have $10,000 dollar tools to work on them.

but of course that is just my opinion.

Yes, dont get me wrong, that IS an appeal. I like simple. BUT... on the other hand, i've been driving, and (been driven nuts by) old cars for 20 years. The new technology has OBVIOUS appeal, and is all new to me. I love driving my girlfriend's 96GT 4.6 Mustang... and its not exactly fast.

Ok Enough ...
 PR , this is nothing more than Mental Mastur.......

Hey, all i'm looking for here is some interesting discussion. I've learned a lot about these little engines on this site, and in this thread. Good stuff.

I used to Work for Comptech USA in the early part of this decade, and I saw all the goodies and R&D  that went on for Honda & Acura. This company had Multiple national championships in all kinds of Acura/Honda products.
 I used to walk past a IMSA NSX powered Camel Lights prototype racer to punch in every day. There was a Indy Honda turbo V8 sitting on a stand that was the prototype motor. I smelled ethanol as I heard one or two Dyno cells running Full Chat for IRL Olds Auroura for Chip Gannasi  and other teams.
 The Point is .... I learned the difference between Dreaming and reality. When you see the Money that is thrown at Honda racing and how it trickles down into the consumer products, you realize that only Ford Cosworth came close to the current development in the old days of the '70's.
  I Know what a S2000 is capable of and it takes Tech and complexity for that to happen in today's world. Like it simple? Live with the limitations of the Old school and forget the Hondas...
  I Like my old school pinto, and if I was wealthy, it would have a Cosworth YB under the Hood .
  The Honda would be the commuter /beater/runner.
  Go to the magazine rack and look for Classic Ford magazine (UK version) and look what the English have done with their "old School rides. Maybe you'll see the light..

 Done on this thread...

 Pintosopher

Interesting. We were at the junkyard today, looking for some other stuff, when i asked if they had an S-2000, and they actually did. So i checked it out. I was rather surprised at how big that little plant is, for something that is 'smaller' than my 2.3. But then i was surprised at how small it is, physically, for something that can crank out power and performance like that.

I've come to obsess about the new technology, so much so that its literally derailed my Challenger project, as i re-think what is going to power it. I LOVE old cars, have driven them exclusively since i was 16, but they are just not in the same league, efficiency wise. To ME... the best possible combo is an old classic, with new powertrain. The more i learn about them, the more i wanna sell all my 440's and 383's and 500's. Overdrives, EFI, aluminum-everything (lightweight)... going fast and being able to drive it every day, in  the rain, 6000 miles, on less gas. I really dont have to go on, we've all driven new cars.

Actually, i came around to thinking about this while reading on another Pinto topic... the Volvo DOHC swap. Just kinda went from optimized 2.3 pinto engine, to DOHC pinto engine, to complete Honda swap. Not that i'm planning this route.

Yeah... i'm a chronic mental masturbator...

Ummm, as a V8 Pinto owner, I have to disagree a little. I get about 16 mpg. A turbo 4 will do much better on gas, is lighter and with the proper tuning will haul freight. I heard a turbo 4 on youtube and it sounded bad a$$. Don't get me wrong, I love the sound and power of my V8, but I would like to have a turbo 4 as well! 
   As far as the Honda, yea, apples and oranges. An all aluminum DOHC v-tech vs. an old school iron sohc, no comparing the two.  :cheesy_n:

And in that, the final simple answer to my original question.

As for the turbo, i realize there is a lot ov love here for those, i'm just not a turbo, or 4cyl/6cyl guy, and you'll never convince me they sound good, even if they're leaving my glorious V8 in the dust. You could give me the mother ov all super-efficient turbo combos... the "legendary" Supra JTZ (whatever) engine, and i still wouldn't want it in anything i own. This 4cyl N/A crap is disturbingly appealing though, and i'm still trying to figure out why...

LMAO this thread kills me you want new get a hemi... want to go fast add a blower... Want a streetable pinto listen err. READ what has been written ... Why ask the question if you wont listen to the answer.  I am a Mopar guy and you might want to choose a better place to race than the canyons with that E body because that pinto you called out is a four banger and from what ive read about 2700 bucks worth of 10 second car.  hell there some six bangers over at slantsix.org you might have a chance with but most are A bodies so your challenger is still too heavy.  Except for the one Ram 150 in the 11s. Big Block Mopars are fast Chevys ARE cheap and hondas are still RICE.  You want fast and high tech. get a neon I can tell you how to get 200 NA HP with one of them.  THIS IS A PINTO FORUM stop talkin HONDAS and "ov" is not a word if you have been driving for 20 years you should be able to spell a 2 letter word... I am building a naturally aspirated motor and will hit 240 hp with the touch of a button.

Sorry bout that its just you asked and then argued about the information given... I was raised Mopar bought a pinto because there are no Rwd mopars with 4 bangers that arent rebadged mesobitchies and i dont care for running power through cv axles...

Sorry bout that its just you asked and then argued about the information given... I was raised Mopar bought a pinto because there are no Rwd mopars with 4 bangers that arent rebadged mesobitchies and i dont care for running power through cv axles...

I wasn't arguing, i was debating ideas. Its a good way to squeeze more out ov a thread. Mainly, people misunderstand what i'm asking. I just wanted to know if a 2.3 Ford could be made as powerful AND as efficient as a similar sized high-end V-Tec Honda I4. That question was answered. I am satisfied.  I wasn't asking if i should go turbo, or V8, or if there actually is a need for a fast, and efficient car. There is, but i cant afford the V8 right now, and i dont want to listen to a turbo'd 4.

I wanna get out ov that old school thinking that says you need boost, NOS or ridiculous cubes to go fast (Mopar sites are terrible, probably THE worst for this mindset). I've been there, it was fun. It got old. I haven't decided whats gonna power my Challenger yet, but it wont be a 440, or a 471, or a 500, or a 524 or 572, or a new 'hemi' for that matter. It wont be blown (just sold my 6-71 actually), it wont be turbo'd,  and it wont be gassed, but i can guarantee you it will be fast. Think a F.A.S.T. style 383 4spd but with WAY better tires.

I had plans for a mega-HP 6-71 blown 400, but at this point it would end up a 700+ HP car i could drive every second weekend. I'd rather have 400HP in that car and drive it everyday. Well, maybe closer to 500...

And seriously...?? a Colt...?? Never could stand to look at those things... Maybe its just me, but early Pintos look wicked. No other small car comes close. And FWD is not an option. Never was. Never will be.