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Author Topic: Just a Quick Rant About EFI.  (Read 612 times)

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Offline Snow Wolf

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Just a Quick Rant About EFI.
« on: June 19, 2012, 12:25:51 AM »
Just a Quick Rant About EFI.

try EFI... go with EFI... you need EFI... OK OK, I GET IT. it's a wonderful thing. but i don't know how in the hell to adjust it/ tune it. no clue. does anybody build anything with a carb anymore.... i had EFI, in my ranger and i hated it. couldn't buy anything for it. there was a sh!t ton of 2.3 high performance parts but i couldn't use them b/c i had EFI. trust me, i tryed it. i put a .480 lift cam in my 87 ranger and the ECM told me to go f myself.... well i probably feel this way b/c my 87 ranger is the newest vehicle i have ever owned. all my other vehicles have been carburated. no lie. just look at my cig \/ \/ \/

oh it's not just on here but any build i have mentioned on any forums i get the some thing.... not mad. it's just a quick rant.     
Cars I own:
*87 Ford Ranger. 2.3 was EFI now carb and loving it. <-- my baby
*75 Chevy Nova 250 I6. nice cruiser.

Past cars i've owned:
*65 Ford mustang 200 I6.
*68 Ford Ranchero 302.
*78 Ford F350 Camper Special Ranger XLT with a 460.
*74 Dodge Charger HT with a 318.
and that's all of them.


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Offline OhSix9

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Re: Just a Quick Rant About EFI.
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 02:30:58 AM »
The last production vehicle to come with a controlled fuel leak is almost 25 years old by now. the fact of the matter is a usb port is the modern equivalent of the long flat blade screwdriver. pound for pound the same motor on efi will live longer make more power use less fuel and have better overall driveability in all weather conditions over its life.

yeah lots of us can still tune a carb but when we use one we just use it and tune it and don't ask what people would recommend cause it's old butt tech.  i mean you can only retool a holly or carter so many times and anodize it so many colors and call it a demon/edlebrock/supervelocotoiletbowl.  i recommend the one that flows enough air to feed the cubic inches you have. and if you are proficient at carb tuning then efi should really be pretty easy for you.

if you do carbs properly you already understand rich, lean, the concept of mains and in some cases idle jets as well as needle taper and shape. i would assume you are using a tailpipe sniffer or wideband 02 sensor and not just your crotch chronometer and an eyeball on the plugs to tune with. so injector size is just your main jets.  do they flow enough at max load wfo to feed the motor? we will talk about open loop which means the ecu is running preprogrammed values which is exactly the same as how a carb would operate (x amount of throttle position and vac = given amount of fuel.) the beauty of fuel injection is we can infinitely vary the needle taper by modifying the fuel delivery tables at a very exact rpm.      deciding that it needs a little extra spritz at 3200 rpm if that is what the o2 sensor is telling us as we aim for given air fuel ratios. once the fuel delivery is taken care of you can attack timing and use the knock sensor to keep if from self destructing as you tune for max power without pinging it apart.

Your little ranger used something called speed density which assumes a given preprogrammed volumetric efficiency for your engine/cam intake exhaust combination. it does not actually measure the amount of air entering the engine. it calculates it based on the air pressure / temp and the above mentioned assumed v/e  by altering the cam you change that ratio.  for want of a 30 dollar j3 adapter from moates.net and a half hour with some software you could have fixed the issue and updated the computer.

most of the stuff that is recommended is mass air based which means it actually does measure the amount of air entering the engine so changes like exhausts, cams and intakes are in many respects compatible upgrades. it is not until you get into computer component upgrades like injectors and mass air sensors that you have to start programming  The obd 1 eec IV in the fords is one of the most powerful and flexible efi computers ever designed and is actually very easy to learn to hack. check out  http://oldfuelinjection.com/

I get what you are saying about carbs but appreciate that for want of understanding a few sensors, hooking up a half dozen wires to activate the ecu  and the basic concept of altering some database tables you are missing out on the ability to really tinker with the motor and run clean doing it.  After the initial curve efi is just easier.  And i know from whence i speak.  having just played the game of gas tank body work air box throttle linkages and carbs.  tear down 4 carbs change mains assemble undo change low speed jets. repeat remove adjust needles. repeat again and again tuning the 4 carbs in my streetbike last spring.  you know what that is in fuel injection.    enter tab tab click enter tab send. miller time

OhSix'
Modest beginnings start with the single blow of a horn man..    Now when you get through with this thing every dickhead in the world is gonna wanna own it.   Do you know anything at all about the internal combustion engine?

Virgil to Sid

Offline Snow Wolf

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Re: Just a Quick Rant About EFI.
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 03:10:49 AM »
lol... damn... i wish i new that 5 years ago. i look at every import and domestic mag and catalog and never found any thing for that efi system. and i've own that truck since i was 17 (now 32 and yes still have it) i know some ppl call it a map system.  i always thought you had to reprogram the ECM to do anything with it. and i'm no programmer. 

well i have to thank you.

thank you
Cars I own:
*87 Ford Ranger. 2.3 was EFI now carb and loving it. <-- my baby
*75 Chevy Nova 250 I6. nice cruiser.

Past cars i've owned:
*65 Ford mustang 200 I6.
*68 Ford Ranchero 302.
*78 Ford F350 Camper Special Ranger XLT with a 460.
*74 Dodge Charger HT with a 318.
and that's all of them.

Offline racer99

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Re: Just a Quick Rant About EFI.
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 10:42:48 AM »
Check MegaSquirt.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Just a Quick Rant About EFI.
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 11:57:49 AM »
The trick today is to find a good tuner for modern EFI. I don't know sh!t about it either & my '07 Stang is getting an engine swap from a 3-valve 4.6L to a 5.4L 4-valve. The wiring is all being swapped, a 2010 computer,larger cams, 3" exhaust, larger supercharger & injectors, better fuel system, better intercooler, headers, ETC.
 
There are so many changes being made that I doubt the stock GT500 computer will even fire the engine. The plan is to get it all installed, load it on a trailer & haul it to the tuner who will set some base parameters to safely fire it up, then tweak it & then it's onto the rollers for some dyno tuning.
 
I have no idea how to do any of the tuning so I'm putting it in someone elses hands. Hopefully once it's tuned I wont have to eff with it myself. I miss carbs at times too.....
'73 Sedan(Pro Street 2.3Turbo eventually)
'76 Wagon driver(big plans ahead)
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)

Offline Snow Wolf

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Re: Just a Quick Rant About EFI.
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2012, 01:34:36 PM »
well first thing first i’m still looking into what OhSix9 and racer99 said....

Quote
The trick today is to find a good tuner for modern EFI. I don't know sh!t about it either

i’m assuming you are talking about finding someone who can tune modern EFI. well that’s money. lol if i could throw money around like the OPS (Outlaw Pro Street) guys it wouldn’t be a problem. but i’m a no money hillbilly.

now if the things that OhSix9 and racer99 are talking about is like setting up a carb but just on a laptop, it shouldn’t be that big of a deal. i can tune a carb. no, i’m no Grumpy Jenkins. but i can get it about 80% right and i have a friend that if i buy him a couple of 6 packs he can get it really close to perfect.

well i guess the days of lighting your eyebrows on fire are over...
Cars I own:
*87 Ford Ranger. 2.3 was EFI now carb and loving it. <-- my baby
*75 Chevy Nova 250 I6. nice cruiser.

Past cars i've owned:
*65 Ford mustang 200 I6.
*68 Ford Ranchero 302.
*78 Ford F350 Camper Special Ranger XLT with a 460.
*74 Dodge Charger HT with a 318.
and that's all of them.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Just a Quick Rant About EFI.
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2012, 02:35:16 PM »
i’m assuming you are talking about finding someone who can tune modern EFI. well that’s money.

Oh yeah......My dyno tuning bill is going to run between $1200 to $2500 & that's IF it doesn't get complicated. It's not a game for beginners & years ago I thought this kind of expense was wacko but my engine will cost $18,000 to replace if the tune is slightly off. Once I surpassed the 40K mark into the car I stopped thinking about costs. When front brake pads cost $240 & rotors are over $200 each you just hit a point of numbness when you cut a check for the car......
'73 Sedan(Pro Street 2.3Turbo eventually)
'76 Wagon driver(big plans ahead)
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)

Offline Snow Wolf

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Re: Just a Quick Rant About EFI.
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2012, 05:11:17 PM »
Quote
my engine will cost $18,000

wow... lol my hole charger, everything, buying the car, fixing it up, and mods was under 18,000. but then again you're a hole lot faster.

hell most of the hot rod magazine budget build articles i have to laugh at. b/c that's not a budget build to me. when they say they're going to put a $10,000 crate motor in. and here i am trying to build a motor for about $2,000.
Cars I own:
*87 Ford Ranger. 2.3 was EFI now carb and loving it. <-- my baby
*75 Chevy Nova 250 I6. nice cruiser.

Past cars i've owned:
*65 Ford mustang 200 I6.
*68 Ford Ranchero 302.
*78 Ford F350 Camper Special Ranger XLT with a 460.
*74 Dodge Charger HT with a 318.
and that's all of them.


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