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Author Topic: My 1972 turbo swap thread  (Read 33435 times)

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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #210 on: December 05, 2016, 08:50:43 PM »
Glad you found so much clearance. I can't imaging you have the engine any lower than mine. With the stock starter it hits the steering rack hold down bolt with the slightest throttle application.


"So much" clearance...th at's funny.  ;) There's still hardly any clearance anywhere. I had to cheat the radius on the new upper intake so the flange wouldn't hit the hood. It may still require a torque strap to keep the engine from hitting under acceleration.

Another obstacle is finding room for a front-mount intercooler. The Spearco one I got long ago is going to be tough to fit, so it's looking like a modified TurboCoupe IC might fit on the passenger side without tearing out the stock hood latch and grille support.

Quote
So, I've searched Pick Your Part for years for a decent white hood (want to keep the original color and patina). I've wanted one as a replacement since I cut the air inlet for the factory intercooler.  Never found one. And yet here you are with a green car and - a white hood. Why does it always work out that way???


Funny you mention that. I still have the original green hood. I got the white one on a parts car and planned to use hood pins and cut it for a bubble/cowl/scoop to clear the intake, but decided not to(it was hard to find!). It's for a '77 anyway and doesn't have the right latch for my '72 hence the hood pins.

Quote
Glad to see the project moving forward even if slowly. Too often they die into obscurity.

Thanks. I figure I'll post updates as long as the car is "project" status which appears to be indefinitely at this rate.  :o


'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline robertwwithee

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #211 on: December 08, 2016, 12:03:54 PM »
I noticed right off as early hoods have ford on the drivers side corner and not in middle.  I bet hardly anybody would pick that out at a car show though. 

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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #212 on: December 31, 2016, 10:17:42 PM »
The second update in a single month and it's the last one of the year.

Decided to postpone fitting an intercooler in lieu of getting the car running.


The blow off valve is going to fit between the valve cover and intake.


The intake is fully welded now. Part of it even looks like I can pretend to weld.


I was toying with the idea of a front-mounted Turbo Coupe IC. Might actually get another and fit one on each side of the hood latch bracket...with different tanks of course.


Ran out yesterday an bought another used intercooler because it was local and cheap.


It would require a shoehorn and cussing to fit in the Pinto though. It's possible without cutting the car, but just barely and I'm not sure I'll go to the trouble.


Hopefully it will be buttoned up and running tomorrow. Lots of welding to do on those pie cut bends...
'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #213 on: January 07, 2017, 11:12:35 PM »
Didn't get finished last week partly because of not having the right selection of hoses for plumbing the new vacuum and breather lines. Got some of that and then decided I'd rather not remove the TPS sensor from the original Throttle body in case I need to put the intake back on for whatever reason. Got another '86 TPS sensor in today and slotted the holes for adjustment.

Then I discovered that the 4.6L throttle body I've built all this around had a wider TPS bolt spacing than the '86.  >:(

The key word is "had." I thought I was dead in the water for another week or two, but fortunately there was enough space to move the bolt holes with some heavy thread inserts. Barely.





Also got some goodies I have to show off.  ;D



Now I can more safely build and use a longer shift arm as the Pro 5.0 Power Tower has adjustable stops. Years ago I had an '89 Mustang GT and put a similar B&M shifter on it. IMO, it's one of the best ways to improve the driving experience of a T5. Even the guy I sold the car to was impressed.



Not obvious from the picture is that those are 95lb injectors. They'll easily supply about 500bhp on gas. Figured this way I only had to buy them once.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #214 on: January 28, 2017, 11:00:50 PM »
As of 5:48pm PST, it's back and running with the redone intake and charge plumbing. Not sure I like the abrupt throttle response of the non-progressive 65mm TB, but I was wearing boots and the cable needs some adjustment, so maybe it can be fine-tuned.

The blow off valve is a little slow to respond at very low boost and slow roll-offs even with my efforts to reduce the spring force, but it seems to be alright at moderate boost and higher. It's also surprisingly loud.  :o  Not what I was after, but that's OK because it will add to the sleeper surprise factor.  8)


'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #215 on: January 29, 2017, 06:15:29 AM »
Looks great.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline suttertim

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #216 on: February 20, 2017, 02:57:18 PM »
You have done a great job on this build and an even better job documenting it! I have an 88 donor and a 73 wagon that I hope to breed in the future. I will definitely be looking back at this thread throughout the pain-staking process. I'm still gathering the basic mechanical parts needed at this point. Do you know anyone that may have 2.3 frame mounts or an oil pan?

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #217 on: February 21, 2017, 11:08:31 AM »
I must agree. 65SC has done a great job of documenting and keeping us up to date on his project. Being this car was only sold about 8 miles from me I had at one time contemplated getting myself a second Pinto. I never did get over there to see it, but because of the "closeness" (shall we say) of my having considering this very car I was pleasantly surprised to see what became of it.

Not to steal any of 65SC's thunder, I thought I'd mention that I also did a '73 wagon with a '88 donor TC.  I have a two part write up about it (sorry no pictures). The link to the second part is at the end of the first part. Hope you can find something helpful. http://www.fordpinto.com/general-pinto-talk/so-you-want-to-build-a-turbo-pinto-part-1/msg76893/#msg76893  For reference 65SC's project is more advanced than mine. I kept everything basically stock in the switch over.

Offline suttertim

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #218 on: February 21, 2017, 06:46:24 PM »
Excellent project summary Tom! I have read it many times over the past couple years because I have a 73 wagon and an 88 SC up here in Norcal. I parked them close together hoping that they would crossbreed naturally but no luck so far. LOL! I have recently read 65SC detailed build thread as well and the two compliment each other nicely. He has done a great job of documenting the build step by step! I'm still collecting a few more parts before I begin the long process of making these cars one and run again.
Thank you both for your time and effort to help the rest of us out with our projects!

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #219 on: February 21, 2017, 07:30:42 PM »
All the best to you.  I believe (if I'm correct) both 65SC and I had our engines in/out seven times before we would commit to welding in the motor mounts!  The '88 wire harness is a mess.  I spent days sorting out what I didn't need and still had about 20 "I'm not sure" wires.  I think he runs a different control system and maybe wired it himself???  His build is a good one to follow. He is very straightforwar d and will state what did and didn't work.

Offline suttertim

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #220 on: February 21, 2017, 07:52:09 PM »
I'm really leaning towards one of the premade harnesses to simplify the process. I plan to contact the mfr. before the purchase. Big Timmay posted their contact info on a thread. They may be able to customize a harness just for my application even further.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #221 on: February 25, 2017, 02:32:39 PM »
I thought I would pop in since there's been some activity.

Not a lot to report on the project. It's been a very rough month for me and a lot of people I know. The Pinto has been mostly neglected (but not forgotten!).

After I got everything back together and some shakedown runs done, it felt like it nosed-over more on the top end. It's always smelled rich, but it seemed worse, so I checked the fuel pressure and it's about 10psi too high according to the rail gauge. The regulator seems to be working, just at 10psi above correct. I'm going to try a different gauge first, then see whether the return line is causing a restriction. If it is, I have a coil of 3/8" brake line and -6 AN fittings that will get strung as a new feed line while the current 5/16 one will become the new larger return leg.

You have done a great job on this build and an even better job documenting it! I have an 88 donor and a 73 wagon that I hope to breed in the future. I will definitely be looking back at this thread throughout the pain-staking process. I'm still gathering the basic mechanical parts needed at this point. Do you know anyone that may have 2.3 frame mounts or an oil pan?

Thanks!

The 2.3 mounts and oil pan were probably the most difficult parts for me to find. The pans pop up on fleaBait once in a while and you might find the mounts on the classifieds here. I was preparing to build some frame mounts and use the stock 'Bird engine brackets with universal isolators when a member here offered a whole Pinto set for trade.

I stumbled upon the C-Line seven-quart pan on my engine. Now that I have it for reference and a nice TIG welder, I might try making my own from the rear-sump Thunderbird pan. That's actually what C-Line did to begin with.

I must agree. 65SC has done a great job of documenting and keeping us up to date on his project. Being this car was only sold about 8 miles from me I had at one time contemplated getting myself a second Pinto. I never did get over there to see it, but because of the "closeness" (shall we say) of my having considering this very car I was pleasantly surprised to see what became of it.

Not to steal any of 65SC's thunder, I thought I'd mention that I also did a '73 wagon with a '88 donor TC.  I have a two part write up about it (sorry no pictures). The link to the second part is at the end of the first part. Hope you can find something helpful. http://www.fordpinto.com/general-pinto-talk/so-you-want-to-build-a-turbo-pinto-part-1/msg76893/#msg76893  For reference 65SC's project is more advanced than mine. I kept everything basically stock in the switch over.

Thanks! Post away; it helps record and archive all that hard-learned information.

All the best to you.  I believe (if I'm correct) both 65SC and I had our engines in/out seven times before we would commit to welding in the motor mounts!  The '88 wire harness is a mess.  I spent days sorting out what I didn't need and still had about 20 "I'm not sure" wires.  I think he runs a different control system and maybe wired it himself???  His build is a good one to follow. He is very straightforwar d and will state what did and didn't work.

I think the engine came out closer to a dozen times. Yeah, the EFI is a MegaSquirt-II  and the harness was completely disassembled, shortened, and reassembled for it. My '86 harness wasn't as integrated as an '87-88 harness, but the result still wasn't really worth the effort IMO. It only served the purpose of reducing cost. Next time I'll probably shell out on new parts and wire it like a rally car or trophy truck with threaded metal connectors. At the very least I plan to use them for bulkheads going through the firewall.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline hotrodln

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #222 on: April 06, 2017, 08:29:52 PM »
Hey did you get your IC figured out yet? I'm going to be using an old one from a volvo turbo wagon. it's BIG like a radiator, but the pipes come out on either side of the radiator. I'll be working on installing mine this weekend. Also I saw you were looking for an early hood ( maybe you found one) I have a nice one that i bought that didn't fit my 74....oh well. I'm in NY and your in CA.. keep us posted. Pat

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #223 on: April 06, 2017, 11:22:34 PM »
I haven't really done anything to the Pinto except drive it occasionally. Been chasing a noise in my truck's differential that I think is a carrier bearing. :(
'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #224 on: April 30, 2017, 12:19:55 AM »
And it was a carrier bearing. A junkyard carrier + a Sunday afternoon = my daily transportation is fixed, so back to the toys.

I got a flex fan in yesterday and started trying to fit it this afternoon. The radiator had to come out in order to remove the water pump pulley bolts. Fan went on, then the radiator (barely) went back in for a test fit. As expected, the blades hit the upper radiator hose.

Did I mention it's only a 13" fan?

Anyway, I have a stock 2.3 fan spacer that will be faced-off to about 1/2" thickness and hopefully that will buy enough clearance for the hose without getting the fan and bolts too close to the radiator.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #225 on: April 30, 2017, 02:34:13 PM »
If you can even fit a fan in there you are doing better than I did.  I guess that is one of the advantages of using the stock intercooler (or is it really an interheater?).  That being I got to use a front mount electric fan.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #226 on: May 05, 2017, 10:41:37 PM »
I didn't have a '73 steering rack to fight with, fortunately.

I found a generic fan spacer that dates back to my high school days and first car, a 1965 Mustang. At 1" it was too long, so:


And standard bolts were a bit tall, so:


...which bought about 0.050" of space


Resulting in:




Yeah, it's as close as it looks.


This all happened last weekend. I took it for a drive and the cooling is much better in moderate weather, but it still climbs steadily on hills. It was a stop-gap; the radiator is practically falling apart with numerous sections of the fins detaching from the tubes. I think I saw a date stamp of 1984 when it was out.

With that, I'm shopping for an aluminum replacement that won't mean rebuilding the car to fit it. An early Mustang smallblock units seems likely, although it will require different hoses for the larger connections and probably trimming the lower radiator support for a larger core.

----------------------

In other news, I'm also looking at an eBay cheap turbo for the exhaust housing to see if it's feasible to machine a housing to fit the Borg Warner S256 that has been languishing in storage for...years now?
'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #227 on: May 06, 2017, 05:59:52 AM »
Why not get that one re-cored ?

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #228 on: May 06, 2017, 12:47:56 PM »
I considered it with the scarcity of 2.0 radiators in mind, but everything I found indicates that a recore will likely cost several times what a new aluminum radiator will. Moving the top inlet and using a flex hose might provide some added fan clearance too. I'd go with a brass 2.3 radiator, but don't really want to cut up the whole support and there's not a lot of space for a wider one anyway.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #229 on: May 06, 2017, 06:09:55 PM »
The older Pinto's have a 17" radiator. The later ones have either a 17" - with side extender plate or a 20" radiator. On my '73 I cut the mount and shifted it over 3" overlapping the metal to maintain strength.  It has worked quite well. Otherwise everything fit as normal. Well, I did move the horn, but that is a minor thing.

 And..., I might have moved the windshield washer tank too (can't remember where it was originally).  I opted to put the TC tank under the drivers fender like the factory did on the '88 T/C. Hopefully the picture tell the story.  Of course I did all that..., and even the cruise control and nearly nine years later is it all completed and functional? Of course not.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #230 on: May 06, 2017, 07:21:55 PM »
I haven't ruled-out what you did, but I'm also trying to plan for plumbing a front-mount intercooler and somewhere to route the charge tube to the throttle body. My current idea is to run it through the radiator support between the radiator and battery, so that's why I'm reluctant to go with a wider radiator.

Then a little voice inside tells me "originality is long gone; stop being fussy and just start cutting and welding to make it fit." ::)
'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #231 on: May 14, 2017, 02:31:35 PM »
Installed the Pro 5.0 shifter:


No space for bolts with the thicker flange, so


The throw is so short that it will take some getting used to.

And shaved the TB flange some more for hood clearance. I think now there's an impressive 1/8".


It was mild yesterday, but the flex fan does seems to be working better than the little electric pusher from before. The next 100 day will really test it.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T/T5/MegaSquirt-II.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #232 on: May 15, 2017, 11:52:02 AM »
"And shaved the TB flange some more for hood clearance. I think now there's an impressive 1/8"."

In reference to the associated picture above, Yes, "been there done that." Being I did mine with a manual mill (aka a hand file) it tapers in many directions. I'd post an image but given the latest cyber attack I'm on my Linux computer and no pictures there.

 As you and I have previously noted we had our engines in/out over half a dozen times before committing to welding the mounts. If one is committed to not cutting the hood I don't think most have any idea how "feeler gauge" close you need to get the oil pan to the rack and still wind up with similar clearances between the throttle body/upper intake and the hood.

Do you have a shroud on the fan?  From what I've studied they help a lot to improve airflow through a radiator. In my Tiger world it is a big issue.  They even block the venting on the sides of the radiator (horn openings) because they found at idle that the hot air recirculates.  Another thing they do is put and air dam skirt under the front valance. It helps to generate a negative pressure on the underside of the engine compartment and draw the hot it out.  They just use that 6" black garden edging with the rounded top. The rounded part is slit and slid over the front sway bar. Then little oval openings are cut right under the round part to pass hose clamps through to secure the air dam.  The nice thing is it is cheap, cuts easily (trim as needed) and bends when it hits a parking bumper. Not sure how that works on a Pinto but I thought  I'd mention it.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #233 on: May 17, 2017, 06:55:18 AM »
Quote
next 100 day will really test it

LOL !

Going to be 2 degrees above zero tonight  ;D