Topic: A 1972 turbo swap adventure

[76hotrodpinto]

I love my esab tig unit. All the tigs I've had the chance to try have been good, so maybe the esab is just typical, but I love it. Having never used a torch for anything but heating and cutting, it took some getting used to. So clean and controllable, compared to a wire feed unit. And once you get the "dime stack" down, it's just weld and done! Very rare to get even a single spatter.

[65ShelbyClone]

My standards are low; I'm just looking forward to welding indoors.  What are the specs on your Esab?

Here's what followed me home this week:


It's obviously an old transformer machine and is a behemoth at 700lbs+, but it probably won't lose much value if and when I decide to upgrade.

Also got that 200cf argon tank, some bundles of E70S, 4043 and 308L filler and some packs of red and green 1/16 & 3/32 tungsten. Next on the list is some spare collets and maybe a gas lens kit...and a 100A line into the shop to feed it. The existing 60A will only let it run at about 50%.  I might just make the collets myself if there is any copper bar stock in the "odds 'n' ends" bin. You know, $200 in shop time to make $10 worth of stuff. 

Welding project ideas for the Pinto:
- exhaust
- intake+intercooler tubing
- low-profile upper intake
- subframe connectors
- tubular turbo manifold
- ?

[76hotrodpinto]

My esab is similar to your beast. It's an old dta 200(ac/dc square wave). I love it, but it's hardly portable. That's why I still run around with my single phase mig so much. I have my tig set up at a shop that's wired for multiple huge kilns, so got lucky there.

And yeah, I totally understand spending way to much effort on making things, rather than purchasing for way less,(titanium door hinge pins).

Looks like you got a good welder to play on now... so I guess we won't be seeing you around here much, for a while.

[65ShelbyClone]

I'll try not to go MIA too badly. 

Welder seems to work better than I can, so that's a start. Found out that aluminized tubing is hard to clean well enough to TIG. Accidentally bumped the pedal with my hood up and saw spots for a good while. Nuked a few 1/16" electrodes and dipped several others, but am generally enjoying how clean and quiet TIG welding is.

The #26 torch is a real (big) handful, so the plan is to get a #9 setup with some gas lenses asap.

[Wittsend]

Hummm..., making me thankful for my Lincoln Mig-Pak 100.  Welding was too expensive a hobby for me to attempt perfection. It is more like a necessary evil. My welding never gets better, but it has allowed me ample practice to perfect my grinding. LOL

BTW, is that your 2.0 and transmission on Craigslist? Saw it and the Lake Hughes pin on the map and thought the dots might connect.

[65ShelbyClone]

Nothing much done to the car, but this should make it a little easier to practice melting parts for it:



That huge thing on the right is a #26 torch that I got with the machine. On the left is the new WP-9. It's like holding a pencil compared to a pick axe. The plan is to make a gas diverter so both torches can stay connected since the machine is old and doesn't have quick connectors.

BTW, is that your 2.0 and transmission on Craigslist? Saw it and the Lake Hughes pin on the map and thought the dots might connect.

That's mine. I'd like to keep the engine, but have no use or space for it anymore. Someone is supposed to come out today and get it and both 4-speeds. That means I have to finish pulling one out of the '77 this morning. 

[65ShelbyClone]

A little bit closer to having flush hood fitment again.

[74 PintoWagon]

Nice.   

[65ShelbyClone]

Nice weather finally coincided with a free weekend where I actually felt like doing something. I tore apart the '77's front end to later find out that none of the parts will work on my '72 except the springs. Double-u tee eff Ford.

Being unable to find any good information about how much to cut the springs, I winged it and simply made them the same length as my old '72 originals. It was a big PITA just to do one side and I was worried it was going to be too high, but it turned out to sit totally level so far.



Hopefully next weekend I'll have the other side done too. Stock wheels are going back on for now because the Minilites have rotten tires.

[Wittsend]

Good to see you back after a long absence. Yes, I'm looking forward to the outcome because we are basically in the same situation with the weight of the turbo motor in a pre-74 Pinto.  Are these 2.3 or V-6 springs? And did the donor car have A/C? Getting all my "honey do" list stuff done this spring, but hope to get to my cars in a month or so.

[76hotrodpinto]

I have almost all my front end parts together now too.I didn't realize the early ones had different suspension too, bummer! It's fun to have all this power and speed, but it's a bit like "master blaster" from mad max, but no "master", just all "blaster"!

[robertwwithee]

I love the mini lites.  Period correct for the era.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

[65ShelbyClone]

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but I didn't get any email notification of replies. 

Good to see you back after a long absence. Yes, I'm looking forward to the outcome because we are basically in the same situation with the weight of the turbo motor in a pre-74 Pinto.  Are these 2.3 or V-6 springs? And did the donor car have A/C? Getting all my "honey do" list stuff done this spring, but hope to get to my cars in a month or so.

Thanks. Work had me flattened for a while, but the longer daylight, nicer weather, and freer weekends are letting me get back to what I want to do.  Even the Mustang is going to get some desperately needed attention and I haven't worked on that since.....befo re I got the Pinto(two years ago this week).  I'm kind of looking for a pre-'76 Ford Courier pickup too...

The springs were from a 2.3 car with A/C and I took off barely more than 1/2 coil, but a whole coil probably would have been alright too. I have a new pair of the same springs, but figured I would cut the old disposable ones and get everything where I liked it before chopping on new parts. Also worth noting is that the old 2.3 springs were shorter than the new ones by at least an inch.

It's fun to have all this power and speed, but it's a bit like "master blaster" from mad max, but no "master", just all "blaster"!

LOL!

I found out the early spindles are shorter between the ball joints and the control arms are different lengths than the later ones. The spring pockets appear quite a bit different too. So far it looks like using the later parts on an early car means welding-in the entire crossmember.

I love the mini lites.  Period correct for the era.

Thanks. Funny you say that because the wheels and tires were originally on a Sunbeam Tiger.

[Wittsend]

Thanks for the spring info.  Let me know how it rides when you get the opportunity.

One thing I like about having a Pinto and a Sunbeam Tiger is they share the same bolt pattern.  Another nice period wheel are the Cosmics.  There was one, special built, fastback Tiger and it has the Cosmics. Turns out when I got mine it has them too.  They are somewhat rare. Picture: 1. Tiger with Cosmics (donor T/C in background too) 2. Harrington Tiger. Oddly enough, same wheel, just painted differently. I'll be copying the Harrington scheme. Talk about abandoned projects, the Tiger hasn't seen a wrench since 2004!  But, some day soon ........ ..... ... .. .

[robertwwithee]

My replica minilights/panasports came off a lotus 7.  I bought real panasports and the replica set from owner.  13x7's, offset makes them look like 13x6 though.  Replicas went on pink pinto and panasports go on my 71 road race pinto.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

[65ShelbyClone]

Just a little update: finished installing the second spring and took it for a drive. It feels comparable to when the car was totally stock with a 2.0, only now the ride is comfortably firmer with slightly less body roll.

The bad news is that with both 2.3 springs under it, the front end sits a little too high. I'll try taking off another 1/2 coil sometime later. The main thing is that drivability improved.

[pinto_one]

Last year they had a few sunbeam Tigers here , and for the pinto guys that think a 5.0 (or 260/289 ) is a tight fit into a pinto look at this ,  . love to have the wheels off this on on my pinto

[dga57]

for the pinto guys that think a 5.0 (or 260/289 ) is a tight fit into a pinto look at this ,  . 

Probably needed a shoehorn to slip that baby in there!!!

Dwayne

[74 PintoWagon]

That is a tight fit..

[65ShelbyClone]

Small update: I spent all last weekend and most of today fabbing the 3" downpipe-back exhaust...and I'm only about 75% done with the mockup and tacking.  Snaking it around the rear end and shock without hitting anything has been a PITA.

Pintos truly were not designed to do any of the things we try to do with them.

[Wittsend]

Yea, I've been living with a 2-1/4" exhaust for similar reasons. I just reused the T/C exhaust (including the CAT) after some gentle bending on the press. I pinched off the split to the second muffler (I believe duals were 87-88, manual only???) and finished with the 2-1/4"..., for now..., which was way back then..., and still is. The muffler (Dynomax) is under the rear seat and just tailpipe after that to the rear of the car.  But, yea, it seems close in places with 2-1/4", I'm trying to imagine 3."

[65ShelbyClone]

There's no more than about 1/2" of clearance in any of the tightest places. I know now that 3" radius bends would have helped a lot.



I got the whole mock-up done and ready to weld when it started raining. When I put everything away for the night, it stopped raining. 

[pinto_one]

Looking at the last photo I was wondering if later you were going to use the 8 inch rear end , it is a tighter fit in the front area with the wider removable housing ,

[65ShelbyClone]

Yes I am; that was going through my head the whole time. Sounds like the adjustments are in order that I was trying to avoid.

[Wittsend]

I know this sounds lame and lazy, but on the Tigers most everyone runs the exhaust under the rear axle. Amongst owners it is simply accepted as necessary.

http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickExhaust/pt-PaulickExhaust2.asp

[65ShelbyClone]

The exhaust is on hold for now pending parts and a change of layout.

In other news, a plan is materializing for modifications to my big turbo's turbine housing that ought to allow use of its internal wastegate and the stock E6 exhaust manifold. Twin-scroll turbos with a wastegate hole on only one scroll tend to have trouble controlling boost on gas engines. Some people have tried to remove the divider down to the wastegate hole and the results seem to be generally disappointing. My plan is to remove the entire divider, which is not practical with ordinary tools. 

[76hotrodpinto]

I'm interested to hear how that works out. SCIENCE!

[65ShelbyClone]

The week in review:

Saturday 5/7: Discouraged by how difficult and protracted an over-the-axle 3" exhaust was turning out, I decided to find a Thrush perf core glasspack and stick it in the tunnel somewhere with a pipe out the side like my Mustang. Spent most of those productive day hours driving around the Antelope Valley looking for a parts store or muffler shop that had one. My go-to shop, the only place that probably had one in a 50mi radius, was understandably closed on the weekend. The other 10 (seriously) stores/shops I checked either didn't stock anything above 2.5" or didn't know what a glasspack is. Defeated, I went home and ordered one online.

Sunday 5/8: Time and thought produced a realization that the muffler I already have might fit behind the transmission. It does! It's also dark outside already!

Monday 5/9: The plan is in motion and I get it all mounted under the car, but run out of daylight before running a pipe totally out the side. A turndown underneath pointed sideways will have to suffice for now. Remember the resonance problem I had before? It's majorly back, but earplugs knock it down to a tolerable level now.

Thursday 5/12: Glasspack came in. Decided to keep it in case I need it for something else. Also picked up some 2.25"x 24" tailpipe pieces to run out the side(because dual 2.25s have about the same flow area as a single 3"). Oval tubing is what I wanted, but it might as well be made of gold. I also looked at NASCAR "boom tubes," but they were all a bit....large.

Friday 5/13: I decided last-minute to take the Pinto to work. It went great until a nut holding one of the hangers on rattled loose (I had tightened it, I made sure) and the exhaust started dragging on the freeway at 70mph. I dove off and into a parking lot, threw a window shade down to keep from getting dirty, and managed to pull the assembly off with just an Allen wrench (the only tool I had), and continued on with an open downpipe as before and only a few minutes late. Not bad for Friday the 13th.

[Wittsend]

I've gotten a lot of my 3" exhaust from guys who upgrade their diesels.  I only have it on one car, my Valiant.   Stock manifolds into 2" run to a 3" and then through a Flowmaster series 50 (supposedly quieter 3 chamber). The DRONING->>>>>> is a sonic weapon.  And it starts right at 1,900 RPM and drops off right at 2,600 RPM. Right in the normal driving range.  I'm convinced that it had nothing to do with what comes out the pipe, but rather what occurs within the pipe and muffler.  I temporarily put one of those Ricer mufflers on the end of the pipe, and choked it to it's tuneable limit.  It barely made any difference.

I know the automatic cars had a single exhaust after the CAT where as the manual car split to a dual.  I'd be curious to know how large it was??? I guess with your large turbo aspirations you need the larger size. My understanding is the turbo kills a lot of the velocity in the exhaust thus the large diameter compensates for that.   My single 2-1/4" is likely a deficit I'd like to change someday. I'm not seeking the high HP output some of you guys are, but I'd still like to maximize what I have in its stock form.

[oldkayaker]

65ShelbyClone, the exhaust is looking good.  I like the idea of caring a window shade to use as a emergency work mat. 

Wittsend, a few links to resonator pipe design/use if you have the room for one.  No personal experience with them.
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=24005.msg148143#msg148143
http://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/gm-engine-exhaust-performance-21/how-build-exhaust-resonator-tube-eliminate-drone-489463/
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=320550