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Author Topic: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?  (Read 11758 times)

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D William A

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Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« on: May 09, 2010, 09:39:09 PM »
I have what looks like motor oil in my manual Rack/pinion boots. I thought these had grease in them?

Possible that the person before me put some oil in thinking it would cover/cure the clunking/click sound that seemed to come from the Rack.. turns out it was the rag tie that was half gone.

The Rack unit seems OK otherwise, I even put new inner tie rods on it before I discovered the rag tie, but the oil thing seems weird, I have searched for hours on google and can't find a definitive answer. There is one thread here on this websist that says to put some oil in the hole.... would like a little more to go on than that.

I picked up a used manual Rack off a 78 Must II that seems good, but it has worn boots and it doesn't have the 'new' inner tie rods on it.

I could swap the inner rods and boots, but if I can just throw some 80/90 wt oil in the one I have?

basic question... oil or grease and if oil - how where do you put it in?

D William A

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2010, 10:06:03 PM »
answer my own question.... took off the boot and 'actually looked inside' and you can see all the gears... there is no bushing or seal that leaks. it might have grease, or could have grease, but if it has oil, then it has oil in the boots too.

so.... seems icky... you tear a boot, lose your oil almost instantly because how much is there 1/4 of a pint?, don't notice and grind your rack into the ground unless you happen to always check under hood every week or so?

No sir... don't like it. Unless someone says otherwise I am swapping boots and adding oil.

Offline 78txpony

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 10:06:29 AM »
How old is the rack?

Hate to be the nearer of bad news, but oil in the boots usually indicate the internal seals have wore out and the rack needs replacement.   :nocool:

It is possible the PO did add oil. 
Drain the oil from the boots. Remove the little top cover (2 screws) and pump in some 80-90 gear oil. 
If the boots fill up again, then the internal seals have failed. 
I do not know of anyone rebuilding the racks, but one can be bought for about 200 exchange. I have changed mine and it is not too difficult.
-Rob Young
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D William A

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 01:01:30 PM »
We are talking "manual" rack and pinion... right?

if there are inner seals, then what lubricates the actual rack and pinion gear that you can clearly see on the outside of these inner seals? I have two rack/pinions and you can clearly look in the ends and see the pinion gear, so these inner seals do not contain the entire pinion assembly and rack unit. OK so be it. but?

Is it possible that the little pinion gear box has a sealed oil chamber and the rack and pinion stuff outside the chamber need grease? Is the rack and pinion external of the gear box run dry or did ford figure no problem, the seals will leak probably anyway?

Offline 78txpony

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 02:25:18 PM »
Yep, we are talking manual.

I believe the outer ends were run dry - the bearings are inside int he oiled area, the seals are on the outside where the rods are seen.
I cannot remember any grease on my inners when i got the new rack.  Mine was dry (no oil) when i got it and I emailed the company that reman'ed the rack if I should lube anything, and they said NO - everything was prefilled at the factory (meaning the little pinion gear box). 

If the car is not driven much, and it does not leak too much, and the steering performs well and no clunks when going over bumps, replacement can be postponed a bit longer...

-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

D William A

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2010, 03:04:55 PM »
OK.... well - I took it apart and here is what I plainly see, literally

There are no inner seals!

If you try to pour or pump oil into the 2 bolt cover, over or through the tension assembly - the oil pours into the main housing which freely drains into the boots. But pouring freely is a term I use loosely... getting oil via the 2 bolt cover is like pulling teeth. very little holes. isn't right.

If you take the 3 bolt cover off, the one the pinion shaft sticks out of, you see the little bearings that ride the pinion shaft.... i.e., these are open bearings, not a sealed bushing thing, so if you pour oil in the top via the 3 bolt cover, the oil flows freely into the main rack chamber and eventually (like seconds later) into the boots because the oil can just run through the bearings. Also, if you put oil into the little chamber above the spindle bearings, it would be like a whole whopping spoonful.

SO..... there are no inner seals or inner oil chamber period. I have 2 of these racks to compare. I thought maybe the main rack chamber was supposed to have seals on each end... near the inner tie rod connection, but not so, both ends the boots are open to the chamber and the chamber is open to pinion gear and the pinion gear is open to the little area above the bearings that ride the pinion gear shaft under the 3 bolt cover.

It is my opinion that since it is universally thought that oil in the boots is bad, and it seems like boots holding oil in like this is a very weak poor design, that these rack and pinions were greased.... Talking manual rack and pinion. But... the million dollar question, if they are greased, why are there so many people that jump on the 'oil in the boots, your rack is shot' band wagon? Must be a carry over from power steering problems perhaps?

it is clear... take one apart, there is no inner oil chamber and it doesn't make sense that the entire rack assembly including the boots would be a big oil pan.

I am going to grease up the bearings and pinion the best I can - and rack on..... someone have info to the contrary please bring it on, but it sure seems simple and obvious.

Offline dave1987

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2010, 03:41:11 PM »
My 78's original rack and pinion had torn boots last spring, there WAS an "oil" type fluid in them.

I didn't oil or grease the rack and pinion. The original boots most likely collected water and leaking motor oil over the 30+ years of it's original motor life before the rebuild. I know the boots were shot before I ever started driving the car but I never really saw it as an issue.

I believe the "oil in the boots" thing is just something that has carried over from the power steering crowd.

I inspected the 78's rack and pinion before I put the new boots on, saw no seals or abnormal wear. I've yet to experience any issues aside from my tie rod ends starting to go....

I have a power rack and pinion in storage as a replacement for the manual one if it ever decides to die on me. Now the power rack DOES have seals on the tie rod ends, I can say that for sure!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

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Offline Bigtimmay

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2010, 07:16:22 PM »
On the multiple kinds of vehicles i have owned all the manual racks never where full of any sort of fluid they just had a little grease on the moving parts.
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D William A

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 09:32:03 PM »
There was tiny bit of oil in the rack I picked up from the wrecking yard too..... I don't understand this.

the only place oil will end up if you put some in, other than in the boots, is in the bottom bearing for the pinion shaft. The pinion gear, the rack gear, the upper pinion bearing and the tensioning adjustment assembly are all above 'the oil line' unless you dump in a full quart or two of oil.

The only way to put oil in the body is by sliding a boot to the side and tipping the rack on end somewhat. Putting oil in the 2 bolt cover is not practicable, hardly doable at all for that matter, and oil put in the 3 bolt cover just runs through the bearing.

beating a dead horse here. I greased it up, reinstalled the rack with a new rag tie and she drives like greased lightnin.

DA

Offline dave1987

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 10:45:01 PM »
The boots on the manual racks are just dust boots from what I can tell. They keep dust and water off the outer bearings and inner tie rods.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

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Offline dave1987

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 09:37:47 PM »
I don't mean to waken the dead, but when dropping the 73 wagon's steering rack today the driver side boot tore and oil came out. I don't plan to re oil anything as there don't seem to be any issues, but new boots will be swapped from my old '78 rack (which have less than 2k miles on them).
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

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I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Offline Reeves1

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2012, 04:47:32 AM »
Time & heat will turn grease into oil. See it all the time on the heavy equip I've run over the years.

Offline Starliner

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Re: Manual Rack Pinion Oil or grease?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2012, 10:57:49 AM »
The early racks were filled from the factory with 5 oz of 90 weight gear oil. 
The boots contained it, no seals.    It is actually a very good design.   
That is why the racks lasted so long unless the boots cracked and leaked out fluid.   
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