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Author Topic: How many owners restore their cars?  (Read 12550 times)

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Kevinwi

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How many owners restore their cars?
« on: July 27, 2011, 07:04:01 PM »
Hello,

I see a lot of owners change engines or tweak other parts of their cars. So, how many owners have matching numbers cars, and attempt to keep their cars completely original? I also have a Ferrari and know how important it is for those cars. But, I don't see that same preservation efforts on Pintos. Maybe I just missed it.

I'd to get pointers and suggestions from those that have my same passion for stock originality.

Thanks!!

Offline Cookieboystoys

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 07:25:32 PM »
Kevinwi, there are some... I have both "as original as I can get" and modified. In truth "numbers matching" has little factor on a Pinto like it would with some other "collector" cars, like the Ferrari you mentioned. Also many of these cars were not well taken care of, they are after all cheap beater throw away cars that most never took care of so many have to have parts swapped just to save them... The all originals are rare and very well respected in our little community so please don't miss understand my above statements. I know I am considering the "original" factor much more when looking for Pintos to buy and the "originals" I own are some of my personal favs
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Offline popbumper

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 08:23:19 PM »
Kevinwi, if you are interested in looking at an original restoration indepth (shameless plug here), please go to the "Your projects" forum and look at my restoration efforts under "Popbumper's '76 wagon". I have been working on my wagon, a full tear down and restore since '98. I hope to have it complete next spring.
 
This is an example of a car that will be 98-99% of what it was from the factory when fully completed. The only thing I plan to change from the original appearance is the addition of mag wheels and tires, otherwise it will remain all original, down to the motor, tranny, paint, interior (though the seats will be different, they were redone when I bought the car), and all other details.
 
My hope is to retain the originality and preserve a piece of history, which is why I am choosing a "stock" direction.
 
Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Kevinwi

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 09:27:55 PM »
Thanks for the comments.

Is there any reference I can check that has photos of all areas of the car? For example, what color are the brake calipers, bumper mounts, differential, etc. ?

My goal is to restore a car back to exactly as it rolled off the assembly line. (maybe a dream but worth it).

Offline blupinto

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 10:09:41 PM »
I prefer to keep my Pintos stock.  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

Offline old 1973

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 10:51:27 PM »
Hello kevinwi I have a 73 a squire wagon it is a all  original car as original can get .as with time some parts have to be replaced like rotors,calipers maybe some upgrades to a better radio system.usually for a complete # matching caru end up buying one or start with one that's really close and build it to be period correct.
My rides: 1972 Squire wagon (Kermit)#121
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                 1978 cruiser wagon (casper)

Offline dave1987

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 11:03:07 PM »
My mother was the original owner of my 78 sedan, and she let my oldest brother paint it blue in auto body class. After she handed it to me I have  been modifying it slightly for comfort and functionality, nothing performance yet though. Everything I have added, however, has been ford, and with that, era correct (meaning from the 70s time frame), with exception of the radio of coarse, but I still have the original radio and faceplate that can be reinstalled at any time. Everything I have added can be removed without damaging the car as well.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Kevinwi

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 11:34:13 PM »
I'm glad to hear of these original cars. I was looking for Pintos for sale over the past year and found that I could find more old Ferraris than Pintos (despite the obvious difference in numbers produced).

As the number of unmolested cars (no offense to owners of altered cars) continues to drop, I fear that in the near future, there won't be any unaltered survivors to compare restorations against.

I don't mean to be snobbish or offensive at all. It's just that I believe it's valuable to have some cars that can be compared against for judging at car shows or restoring cars.

Offline old 1973

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 11:50:30 PM »
Kevinwi  dont believe u were being snobish we people r proud of our pintos I. Have run into places when I take my car to car shows being surroumded by all the fancy mustangs,chevys,dodges and all people that I talked to kept saying how cool the pinto is and the nice part they dont  lot to fix .o
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Offline 77pintocw

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 07:49:39 AM »
Hey Kevinwi:

I bought my 1977 CW in 1978 and I am the original owner.  I am about to
finish a complete restoration of it and it is all 99.9% original (stock) even down to
the bolts and screws.  I will shortly post pics of the finish product.

What year of Pinto are you interested in restoring?  I do have a few suggestions
that will help.

Thanks,

77pintocw
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

Kevinwi

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2011, 10:55:28 AM »
In my senior year of high school, 1979, I bought a used 1972 2 door sedan. Now, years later, I'm looking to relive my childhood by getting another, matching, car. I guess it's a late mid-life crisis.
 :fastcar:

Offline DBSS1234

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 02:06:20 PM »
Like 77pintocw I am the original owner of the CW pictured in my avitar. I ordered it in late 76 and it was delivered in early 77. After all these years in the original trim and with the original owner it would be a shame to modifiy it now. I plan to start a full rotisserie restoration on it this winter to bone stock as deliveried condition. When I start, I plan to post pics of the entire process. It should be an fairly easy restoration as the car now only has approx. 47,000 miles on it.

Offline 77pintocw

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 07:06:03 PM »
Hey Kevinwi:

The one tool that made my complete restoration both enjoyable and productive
was the Ford Car Master Parts and Accessories Catalog.  This catalog comes in digital
format and shows and lists every part, its location, and the Ford part number for the Pinto.  I purchased the one for the 1973-1979 Ford Car which included my 1977 Pinto CW.  This catalog
helped me determine Ford part numbers and if NOS parts were available for my car.
There is one available for 1965-1972 Ford Cars which includes the Pinto.  You can
find them on e-bay for around $25.00.  Just type in 1965-72 Ford Master Parts.

Good luck with your adventure, be patient, take your time, and you will end up with a jewel.

Thanks,

77pintocw

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Kevinwi

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2013, 10:08:55 PM »
Time for a follow up.

I purchased a 73 sedan. The body looks good but the engine, muffler, brakes, etc. need repair. I bought the 73-79 Ford Car Master Parts and Accessories Catalog. Thanks for the suggestion.

As you can see from my avatar/picture, I have a fun garage.

Thanks for all the advice and comments.

Offline Henrius

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 02:40:03 PM »
Hello,

I see a lot of owners change engines or tweak other parts of their cars. So, how many owners have matching numbers cars, and attempt to keep their cars completely original? I also have a Ferrari and know how important it is for those cars. But, I don't see that same preservation efforts on Pintos. Maybe I just missed it.

I'd to get pointers and suggestions from those that have my same passion for stock originality.

Thanks!!
[/quote]

My 1973 Runabout was given to my for a graduation present in 1976, when I graduated from college, so you know it is special to me. It is only one of two Pintos I have encountered with a factory sunroof. I was torn between keeping it original and improving it. My solution was to keep it as original in appearance as possible, but improve the performance.

I gathered stuff from the junkyard that were factory Pinto options that my car never had. Some really nice chrome headlight surrounds were one. A Temp/Voltmeter/Oil pressure set of gauges for the center console was another nice option, although from a later model car.

I saved the old engine in original form, and souped up a second junkyard engine. I put headers and increased the diameter of the exhaust system. I used the original carb but converted to Unilite distributor and MSD ignition. A friend mounted sway bars beneath the chassis. I recently had single-piece shoulder harnesses constructed for the car. You probably guessed I also upgraded from the factory AM radio.

I really, really wanted bigger wheels, but this is one upgrade I did not make, as it would be an obvious modification to anyone who sees the car on the street.

What will result when I am done is an authentic looking Pinto when seen driving on the street. But it will be a lot more fun to drive! If guilt ever gets the better of me, I can put the original engine back in.

Sad to say, I don't ever see Pintos as being collectable! The best we can hope for is we will enjoy the nostalgia trip, and others will want to ride with us!
1973 Pinto Runabout with upgraded 2.0 liter & 4 speed, and factory sunroof. My first car, now restored, and better than it was when it rolled off the assembly line!

Offline amc49

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2014, 07:49:22 PM »
One view from the other side.

I see there being two ways to go there. Original or practical and being realistic.

 I view the cars as what they are or devices to be used rather than worry about preserving this or that small feature or gimmick that originally came on the car. They are made to drive and doing so results in things happening that if one requires exact replacement part they are spending too much on what is essentially a crackerbox car with little worth other than to the owner. I look at my two Tempos, one Contour and two Focus cars the same way, they all run and dependably, but I don't hesitate to change any part to a better upgrade by other makers if it is cost effective. I change up lots of small things and the cars could never be called original. Each will get probably two motors and two transmissions and all built by me to let car run so long that it is really not feasible to think of selling it after all that time, it will be pretty much junkyard bound as the body will be falling apart.

I have no love affair with this or that car, I learned to love them while they are alive and make them last far longer than most ever do with so much less outlay most people think I'm lying about it. The most important thing to me is to drive the wheels off them with as little cash put in as possible but at same time doing only what's necessary to keep them going longer. The only way to keep a car original is to store it, that instantly makes it a worthless device since it is not doing what it was designed to do.

I value all my cars highly, but keep them original?? Absolutely no way, it is in no fashion cost effective. You would be amazed at the thousands of dollars I have saved by not buying new original parts, rather I often fix the broken part to go longer but it will not be 'factory original' after that fix. No matter, in my world the new fixed by me part will often work out to be better than the factory part ever would. I believe in improvement, originality means nothing to me other than I'll get around to changing that too sooner or later. One has to come to the understanding that ALL mechanical devices are made as cheaply as possible, that means original often means failure prone. I can find stuff like that on every car made on earth.

Kevinwi

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2014, 09:55:14 PM »
Interesting point.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2014, 11:58:40 PM »
I like Pinto's both stock & modified. The rarest one with a concourse resto is barely worth the cost of the paint job itself so who cares about numbers matching. Pinto's are one of the few cars that anyone can afford on any budget that is considered a classic so I say do what you want to them.
 
My 80 is a rare optioned car but the original engine is long gone so it's getting a Turbo Coupe 2.3L/T-5 combo. I'm going to keep the mint interior as-is & replicate the factory paint & stripes. I've done major work smoothing out the engine compartment & hiding the wiring, converted to 5-lug & installed an 8" rear.  I'll definitely have more money in it than it's worth on it's best day but I'm giving it to my son so I don't care about the cost.
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Offline amc49

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2014, 02:44:58 AM »
One to back up the claims. Focus cars and the earlier Contour commonly use a zetec engine that uses like NINE cooling system hoses if you count all the stupid bypasses there. I cobbled up copper sweated to custom bends and tees using cheap Home Depot home copper pipe to replace the factory replacement formed hoses. All 3 cars I have now use the copper pipes I made. Every time I change hoses now I save a solid ONE HUNDRED DOLLAR BILL, by using common bulk straight hose now instead of the factory provided hose shapes. The only molded hoses I use are the upper and lower main radiator hoses and thinking of replacing them as well.

I came up with that way back on the '74 Mustang II using a 2.3, I built copper heater pipes to again not use factory oddball hoses. When the Mustang was lost in a hailstorm I transferred the copper cooling system pipes to the '80 Pinto wagon.

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2014, 07:26:38 AM »
I agree on both, have one of each a 75 bobcat runabout that is 98% original and a 78 bobcat wagon that will be a sleeper with a 2.3t in it!! so I say go with what makes you happy!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line - SOLD - 🙁
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline mrskydog

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2014, 08:04:51 AM »
All Stock here, I even saved the org. factory Belts/tires. (Replace because of the Age with all Ford parts) In my case, car only has 32,000 miles and Lucky to find all in allstock un-molested condition still.   ;D
"Living the Dream...Drivin g Old Fords"
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2014, 08:57:58 AM »
Sweeeettt...
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline DBSS1234

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2014, 09:04:09 AM »
Anyone following my restoration thread knows which side of the stock/modified fence I fall on. I have nothing against customized cars, but they are just not my thing.
In my experience customized cars just don't hold their value. When the time comes to sell a custom car you need to find someone with the same tastes as you and be willing to pay for them. Not so easy. Ask any street rodder that sold his car, did he get his investment out of the sale? Nine times out of ten the answer is no.
As to why I personally like to restore to stock condition. First is nostalgia, I like having a "new" old car. In my case with the cruising wagon I bought it new, dated my future wife in it, and took my honeymoon in it. So cost is not a big factor in the restoration, I just want it like it was. Second is the history. All the little stamps, paint marks and decals tell a story about the car and how it was made. Destroy these things and the story is lost.
As to the extent of originality, in the 90's there were 2 main Mustang restorers I was familiar with, Bob Perkins and Drew Alcazar. Bob restores Mustangs to "as factory" with all the flaws reproduced (paint runs, crooked decals, etc.). Drew summed up his restorations this way, "some restore to as how Ford made them, I restore to as how Ford advertised they made them". I used a blend of the two philosophies.
About how our cars will never be valuable collector cars. There was a time the only fifties Chevrolet cars anybody cared about were the 55-57's. Priced a 58 Impala lately? Will they ever be as sought after as Mustangs and Camaros? Time will tell.

Offline amc49

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2014, 04:12:57 PM »
True enough. In my view though the story actually begins when you get the car yourself, after that it has a story to tell that is different from all others. You yourself determine how interesting that story will be. I still wonder at the two AMX cars I sold and how much wondering the owners went through as they pulled this obscure part or that off to find they were modified and why? I chuckle just thinking of it. The last one was a drag/street car that had weight down to 2800 lbs. but appeared dead stock to casual view. I cut and whacked parts everywhere on that one. I traded it off for a real low mileage SC/360 Hornet so not too bad a loss there. I drove the Hornet to death and for 12 years. It finally went to the yard, the engine rebuilt to go in a sand drag jeep. Trans went into a '79 Concord I had that went to 320K miles.

Any car I mod now provides the added value to ME, I do not sell them at all, rather when done they go to the yard. You always lose money selling a viable running car in my view so I don't value 'collectability' much at all. Amortized out I make money keeping them longer as opposed to buying more of them. I've made car payments for maybe 7 out of 35 years running and with the backlog of running cars I now have I may never make another.

My rule #1? NEVER buy any part at Ford you cannot get elsewheres.... ............I just broke that rule about a month ago to buy a Motorcraft Focus stat housing, you'd know it, it leaked as soon as installed. The glued bottom was not properly sealed all  the way around. So much for 'original quality' parts......... .........and not the first time Ford has let me down. Why I made the rule up to begin with. Of course not all Ford parts are defective, but I've certainly seen quite a few that are. In my view their quality is no better than the aftermarket. No matter, I vacuum epoxied the leak to then seal the part up, no way was I tossing a $50 part there.

Now as to the personal satisfaction of owning an all original car? I can't touch that of course.

I CAN touch upon how Ford is beginning to put parts in cars now that break way too early though. Like the previously mentioned stat housing that breaks to bring down plenty of Focus cars and put them in the yards. The replacement part is just as much garbage as the original is and at some time in future will fail again. Some people have failed 3 of them and ridiculous to have to do $500 repair over and over using 'original' parts. And that's not all, I can name entire streams of 'original' parts provided now that are garbage and do not last long at all. The Ford of old is not the Ford of now........... ...

Offline Wittsend

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2014, 04:34:27 PM »
That SC/360 Hornet must have been pretty rusted being one of only 1,500 made!

Offline amc49

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2014, 04:40:20 PM »
Yes it was indeed, the unibody was popping apart in various places like the outriggers below the doors. AMC was not well known for the strength of their bodies per se. I had troubles with the unibody coming apart at the wheel wells on the AMXes from body flexing. Of course the cars were biting hard enough to pull the wheels, in fact it was a huge problem, much work going toward making the car go forward rather than up in the air.

WE knew the value of collectible AMC cars at the time but it wasn't common knowledge back then, most did not value the cars highly at all, even the rare ones. I had a '70 Mark Donahue Special Javelin too, one of only about 500 made for homologation requirements for Trans Am roadracing.

Man, it was enough trouble just getting some respect for the cars. Most thought they were dogs, that is, until you pulled up next to say a 454 Camaro in a 390 AMX and then proceed to outpull the Camaro in high gear.......... .......THAT opened some eyes. But most stayed unconvinced the engines could run. They were well aware of it at our local strip though.

We did more than our share of street racing, knocking off big dogs like 426 Hemi, 440 Mopar, 454 GM, 455 Poncho or Olds all the time. We collected 375 hp 396 Chevelles like popcorn kernels. All with 395 (.030" over 390) inch motors pretty much, later on we ran a 406 based on the 401 engine. We got beat one time by a Reher/Morrison (yeah, them guys, the national Pro Stock winners, they were based in Arlington next door) 420+ inch SBC '65 Chevy II once, the guy was neutral starting an ATX since he didn't have a good converter in it yet. I was gritting my teeth every time he brought it up to what sounded like 8000 on his launches, expecting the trans to grenade. That was the only time we ever got beat in 3-4 years of street racing.

Offline amc49

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2014, 05:07:45 PM »
FYI, we also had 2 SC/Scramblers at one time, you know, a Rambler American with the 390 4 speed in them and the wild red/white/blue color scheme and funny scooped hood. One was pretty dogged out, we painted it black, replaced the hood with a normal one and street raced that one for a while. That was pretty funny, the car literally could not be driven without squealing the tires. We learned to take off in 2nd gear. Car had a .606 lift dirt track short duration cam and one of the fastest racking up to rpm engines ever heard; everybody commented on it. Like 450 ft.lbs. of torque at 2000 rpm, it was a torque monster.

Offline entropy

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2014, 02:46:20 AM »
I *love* AMXs.  In fact, my two seat, V8 Runabout (which I've taken to calling a "Hoonabout") is what it is because I couldn't afford an AMX  ;-)
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
G-Force 5 Speed
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

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Re: How many owners restore their cars?
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2014, 11:05:23 AM »
Back then the 'hot' trick set up was a V-8 Pinto or Vega, most never realized that a 2 seat AMX was that with a really big motor and already scienced out as to handling and reliability. The AMX had virtually same wheelbase and was an extremely light car.

We regarded the later Javelin/AMX as a boat anchor though........ .....