Topic: 2.8 bottom T-stat questions

[78_starsky]

hey all,  who in here runs a 2.8 and do you have any probs running the stock location of the thermastat/housing being fed through the bottom of the block?  I have questioned this position and wondered about any over heating problems that could occure from this set up.  how many people have changed theres to a top position and how did you do it?  if you have yours in the stock (bottom) location what temp thermastat do you run with?

thanks

[Fred Morgan]

Get a hold of Chad [75bobcatV6] he has 1 .  Fred   

[Pintopower]

I have three 2.8 pintos all running the stock location. The most important thing is you must get your cooling system flushed every two years to prevent sediment build up. This is true for any older cooling system but more so on the 2.8. They have thin water jackets get plugged easily.

This is a complex system that features a dual plane thermostat that opens based on coolant temp at the rear instead of the front. The thermostat gets the hot coolant via a bypass hose from the upper part of the engine which feeds it the hot coolant as opposed to the tepid coolant from the radiator outlet. This causes the thermostat to open and close like a standard thermostat. This means you need to run a 185 or 195 thermostat in the lower part of the engine which would normally sound counterintuiti ve since the lower part of the engine is running at about 150. The rear of the housing which has a three pronged base is what the hot coolant feeds into from the top of the engine. It is important that the housing NOT be over torqued since the thermostat housing, water pump and timing case all tie into the rear bypass cover. That is what the M6 bolts thread into. It is a 9 ft lbs or 12 ft lbs torque setting. Toss out those old steel bolts and replace them with 316L stainless steel bolts. Those have a VERY low ferrous content and will not rust. Add grease around them to prevent gauging but the risk is low since it is not a stainless to stainless interface. It is stainless to aluminum. With this system working correctly (this includes a clean radiator) the car will never overheat. These cars have issues when the system is not maintained or when some one installs a 155 or 165 thermostat in them. This will not work. It will open too soon and force the thermostat open at all times. Also, a fail safe or high flow unit wont work either since they are not designed for a system like the 2.8's (dual plane). A standard 185/195 works perfectly. I have never seen a 2.9 timing case with the upper thermostat on a 2.8 but it looks like a nice conversion. I have never tried it nor will I, the standard system works great, if a little complex.

Alberto

[78_starsky]

now that all makes sence!!!  thanks for the great write up pintopower.

cheers

[Pintopower]

Not a problem. I am a HUGE 2.8 fan. All I ever hear is how bad they are and how they overheat constantly. I have been there and it was all due to lack of information and education.
Alberto

[75bobcatv6]

Honestly i love the 2.8 its just too bad there are not many Mods for them. other then what Offy offered, and what you can find with hooker headers. there is not much out there performance wise.

[Pintopower]

In the US there isn't. Take a look at the German forums for the Taunus, Capri and Granadas. Its sick what we don't get here!

[beicholz]

Wow, Pintopower...w hat a great post!!!!  Perhaps the best I've seen so far on this site.  Would you consider starting a 2.8 thread?

My 2.8 runs great, but it only has 40K miles.   I'm interested in doing everything I can to make sure I don't have to do a premature overhaul.   Mine sat 25 years unusued.   She started right up, but for the first week, she smoked on start-up, and sometimes while hot.

Now, there's not a hint of smoke, cold or hot.  Compression is great, and she passed the stringent CA smog standards with much room to spare.   My mechanic thinks it just took a week or so for oil to reseat the valves and lubricate the engine.

I'm shocked at what a smooth engine this is.   It runs great, and seems eager to go fast.

Anyway....woul d love to see more postings for us minority 2.8er's.

Thank you!

[Pintopower]

Well not a problem! I don't know about the best post, I remember the days of Pintony, those were posts!

Your car probably needs valve stem seals. Common on cars that sit. They are not a big job but since your car passed CA smog (all of mine do also I might add) it should just need some time and i would stand by your mechanics theory.

They are ultra smooth and powerful. The A/C works great on them and they get very good milage.

I dont know about a thread about the 2.8 in particular but I will be more than happy to answer questions about it.

Did you have the hoses changed? Like the bypass hose? If not, do it NOW! If that blows it causes a disaster!
Alberto

[78_starsky]

Did you have the hoses changed? Like the bypass hose? If not, do it NOW! If that blows it causes a disaster!


not sure if this was directed at me or not,  however, the motor is being rebuilt,  i get the block and heads back from the machine shop tomorrow (yahoo) then the build up can begin.  I will be replacing all hoses in the build so no worries there.  i was just questioning the stock locations of things is why i started this question abou the water t-stat.  I have read other threads in other sites that guys talk strongly about changing the water t-stat to top of block.  this is why I asked the questions.  the water housing on botom is corroded all out and I will be replacing the works with new. I was wondering about changing to top when I was going to be building this up.  no need to do it all twice.  After reading what you wrote I am going to be leaving the t-stat in the bottom and taking care of the plumbing every couple years.  this is going to be a summer only car after it is built back up.  something to take to car shows and maybe enter in custom catagory.

thanks

[beicholz]

Hey Pintopower,

Not sure about the bypass hoses, but I'll ask when I pick the car up today.  Fred helped me find a new tank, fuel sensor, and lock ring after I sprung a leak.   So, I'm back on the road today, turning more heads in my classic!

 Any other pointers about this engine would be appreciated!  I REALLY don't want to do an overhaul!

[Pintopower]

78_starsky

I was talking to beicholz but glad you did it anyway! Make sire you install stainless bolts all over the water pump too! And add a sacrificial anode radiator cap since the car will be sitting for the winter.

Actually, EVERYONE SHOULD INSTALL ONE!

I have converted everyone I know here!

beicholz, Make sure that hose is changed. Also, they need their valves adjusted to .008 and .010 I think. The engine should be silent. I cant tell you how many diesel sounding 2.8's I have heard. You too 78_starsky. Don't trust that the shop did them correctly. My 2.8's are silent. That is how they should be.

Only, and I stress ONLY use rubber valve cover gaskets on them. The cork ones are crap and since they need 15k valve adjustments, they can be reused over and over and over.... The cost about $25 and save you that stuff on your head... your hair.

Are you guys running 2150 or 2700VV carbs? The 2150 is bullet proof and always works. The 2700VV never works but when it does, it's like fuel injection. I suggest the 2150. I have a 2700VV in my blue car and, **sigh**, it hates me.

2700VV


2150


Another pointer: DO NOT OVERHEAT THEM! The heads will crack. How are your radiators? Get them checked out and if they are old get them rodded out. If they are crappy, get a three row high flow core installed.

Here is the last one I built. Pretty ain't it? yes I know the correct color is black, but that's boring. I like Old Ford Blue.

[78_starsky]

"Don't trust that the shop did them correctly."

the only things that the shop is doing is hot tanking the block and the heads, (the heads are completely bare) new frost plugs  and cam bearings.  I will be doing the build.  Angie is in charge of carburator.  I think she is going to be rebuilding a Rochester 2bbl for this motor.  or at least that is what we also have down at the shop for this motor.  I know we also have the orig 2150, however that is her department.  I know nothing more than carbs mix gas and air.... LOL

your motor looks good Did you build the works yourself?  ours is going to be white block with red valve covers and red trim.

what type of cam grind did you give that motor?  and when you built it up did you use a felpro gasket kit?

this is the grind I am thinking of giving the cam.  this shop is about 15 minutes from my house.  http://www.coltcams.com/
http://www.coltcams.com/html/camshaft/index.cfm  << click on the box that says profiles. find your way to 2800 and I am looking at the c.214.s  grind.   these guys take in your original shaft and grind it to the profile.

cheers

[beicholz]

Hey Pintopower...

Thanks for yet another great post!  Got my car back last night, and it runs perfectly.

A few questions, if you don't mind...

* Any pointers on the transmission?   Is is the same in the V6 as the 4?   I read in a vintage Ford ad that the auto transmission is "sealed for life".   So does that mean we don't change the fluid?  Any pointers on keeping the transmission in good health?
 
* Where do I get an anode radiator cap?   I had the original radiator completely restored, cleaned, and painted, so hopefully I'm good to go.  Is the anode to prevent rust?   I live in CA, and we never see rust on cars here.

* Regarding the carburetor, I'm not sure which one I have, nor how to tell.  But unless you feel differently, I'll probably leave it alone, since the car runs so well.

* Finally, the valves....My 6 has an ever-so-slight tapping.  But I have never adjusted valves, and I'm scared that the shop I used might do more harm than good (they adjusted my Karmannn Ghia valves all wrong).  Not sure what to do about this one.   It's hard to find mechanics that want to work on Pintos!