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Author Topic: An original Pinto question...  (Read 5241 times)

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Offline Pale Roader

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An original Pinto question...
« on: July 10, 2009, 06:23:18 AM »
Haha, well, maybe its been asked once or twice before...

What EXACTLY is involved with swapping 71-73 front clip onto my 76? I've read a few posts about them not easily fitting, but can anyone tell me exactly what i'm in for? I HAVE seen this done. I was chasing a local 71 Pinto for almost a year before i finally caught up with the owner and he said it was actually a 76, but he installed a 71 front end (whole clip or just bumpers, i didn't think to ask at the time). He also installed a 71 rear bumper and valence. For all intents and purposes it looked like a 71. This guy didn't strike me as a particularly bright guy, so i couldn't have been THAT difficult...

I wanted a 74-76 Pinto because it has the Mustang 2 suspension, and i intend on road racing this thing someday. The easier V8 swap is a bonus too. I just hate the bumpers and need to lighten this thing up.

Another question: i read somewhere that the sheet metal used on Pintos (or general construction) got heavier in 74 as well. Essentially, the earlier cars were flimsier. If thats the case, thats another reason for the swap... lighter fenders and hood? One could also assume that a pair ov 71-73 doors would be lighter than my 76 doors?

I'm already looking for a 71-73 parts car, now i'm just thinking i should pull more than the front clip and rear bumper off. Doors, trunk-lid even?

Can anyone here confirm this stuff...?? ??

Offline phils toys

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 09:03:34 AM »
another option would be 78 bumpers  all aluminum  no core support like my 76 my 9 yr old 65 pound boy can cary one by him self I dont know any thing about the steal being any thicker or thinner 71 "s goal was to be a 2000 pound car but they did not stay  engine got bigger, as well as saftey regulations requiring bugger bumpers and more smog equipment if my memory serves me correct 76 was the heavest
phil
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Offline popbumper

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 01:25:49 PM »
Phil:

  I would say you are probably correct. My '76 wagon has the BIG steel bumper inserts (which I had to sandblast, they were SO rusty), and a whole bunch of extra smog equipment (MPG version), including the famed smog pump and all associated hardware. This stuff adds an amazing amount of weight, no doubt, unlike the earlier cars that had small bumpers (no need for massive inserts), and no smog equipment).

  Enough of an argument for additional horsepower, thank you  :P

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Offline discolives78

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 11:18:16 PM »
IIRC: The earlier cars had either no crossbeam in the door or a smaller crossbeam in the door. This would save weight but may compromise safety in a T-bone accident. The 77-78 bumpers combined drop almost 100 pounds from the 74-76 cars. The hood from the 74-78 cars bolts to the hinges on the 72, but the radiator support and latch are different (earlier model latch is on the hood, no cable. late model is on the radiator support). There were a few places Ford looked for weight savings as 'fuel economy' became the buzzword around Detroit. If you're looking for weight savings, here are a few things you could delete to shave pounds:

Passenger door mirror
Bright trim around side windows, wheelwells, rocker panels
Radio, antenna and speaker(s)
Cigarette lighter
Any air conditioning components(if you're not using it, or it doesn't work)This one adds up!
Back seat (common in drag cars)

Depends on your intended use for the car.

There are fibreglass front end parts, dashes, hatches, trunks and bumpers available for the Pinto, but that could add a chunk to the price tag.

Just thoughts... :)

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Offline blupinto

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 11:25:34 PM »
If Jimmy cracked corn and nobody cared why'd he keep doing it? ...

BECAUSE APPARENTLY IT NEEDED TO BE DONE ANYWAY! lol.  :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's a gorgeous picture of Buttercup with that glorious sunset as the backdrop.
One can never have too many Pintos!

Offline Pale Roader

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2009, 03:12:01 AM »
another option would be 78 bumpers  all aluminum  no core support like my 76 my 9 yr old 65 pound boy can cary one by him self I dont know any thing about the steal being any thicker or thinner 71 "s goal was to be a 2000 pound car but they did not stay  engine got bigger, as well as saftey regulations requiring bugger bumpers and more smog equipment if my memory serves me correct 76 was the heavest
phil

That figures... BUT... thats also a good thing. If 76 is the fattest, then it also has the most to lose.

I should add though that it is not just the weight savings i'm interested in. I just dont like the look ov those later bumpers, the 71-3 cars look so much better i think. I want to make my 76 look like a 71, and going beyond that i'm gonna shave whatever i can off ov those 71 parts... even the lightest stuff can be lightened. Bumper brackets are a good place to start.

Offline Pale Roader

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 03:17:32 AM »
  I would say you are probably correct. My '76 wagon has the BIG steel bumper inserts (which I had to sandblast, they were SO rusty), and a whole bunch of extra smog equipment (MPG version), including the famed smog pump and all associated hardware. This stuff adds an amazing amount of weight, no doubt, unlike the earlier cars that had small bumpers (no need for massive inserts), and no smog equipment).

Are you saying there was MORE smog stuff on the MPG model? or on the 76 in general (which would be obvious). I would imagine the MPG would have less smog stuff than normal if they could get away with it.
 
My bumpers and inserts are very rusty also, not that i need another reason to drop 'em. Hell, my whole car is pretty rusty (well, fenders and quarters), i doubt anyone else would put the money into it. Fortunately, i like ugly cars (as in, badass looking). The rust holes and bondo bulges dont concern me all that much. Thats why flat black spray bombs were invented...

Offline Pale Roader

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 03:42:01 AM »
IIRC: The earlier cars had either no crossbeam in the door or a smaller crossbeam in the door. This would save weight but may compromise safety in a T-bone accident.

Heh heh... my other car is a 68 hearse, 6000lb all-steel tank that is specifically banned from demo derbies (along with Imperials), my car before that was a 71 Fury, my SMALL SPORTY car was a 72 Charger... as far as i'm concerned, even the latest, heaviest, biggest Pinto wagon is a total death trap. As far as i'm concerned, driving a Pinto in open traffic is no less dangerous than a motorbike... so door impact beams and bigger bumpers seem to me like putting a helmet on before you jump off a tall building. Might as well shave weight!

Quote
The 77-78 bumpers combined drop almost 100 pounds from the 74-76 cars.

WOW... i had heard that the 74-76 bumpers weigh 140lbs, or even shave 140lbs off swapping the earlier ones, which is true i dont know. But you saying this... WOW. I'm popping them suckers off tomorrow!!! My car was 2400 even on the local scale... i bet i'm a helluva a lot closer to 2200 without 'em.

Quote
The hood from the 74-78 cars bolts to the hinges on the 72, but the radiator support and latch are different (earlier model latch is on the hood, no cable. late model is on the radiator support).

Well, until i source some quality fiberglass parts (not flimsy racing ones) i might just use the earlier stuff EVERYWHERE i can swap it. The earlier hood must weigh less, even less with some work i bet. You think there is a way to use the 71 hood on my 76 AND keep the remote hood-latch? I wont be affording FG any time soon anyways.

Quote
There were a few places Ford looked for weight savings as 'fuel economy' became the buzzword around Detroit. If you're looking for weight savings, here are a few things you could delete to shave pounds:

Passenger door mirror
Bright trim around side windows, wheelwells, rocker panels
Radio, antenna and speaker(s)
Cigarette lighter
Any air conditioning components(if you're not using it, or it doesn't work)This one adds up!
Back seat (common in drag cars)

Done, done, done, done, done, and done. Plus more already. I had the interior panels out, but they weighed A POUND  a piece... might as well leave 'em in. Back seat belts, jack and spare, some underhood stuff, sound deadener, ANYTHING not in use... already gone. ALL the trim is off, even emblems (and EVERYONE asks what the hell it is.... haha). If i get a good parts car i'll do bumpers, doors, hood, fenders, valences, grille (likely not lighter, but cooler lookin'). My wheel and tire combo is probably heavier, but small tires are against my religion. At least my rims are aluminum and on the lighter side. A full exhaust (aftermarket header, 2 1/4" pipe, Borla, no cat, etc.) sounds like it would be a tad lighter, depending on what that exhaust manifold looks like. The smog stuff will disappear...

Gotta get this thing as light as possible before i start adding weight (bigger tires yet, subframes and other welding, heavier duty suspension pieces, bodywork, etc). Maybe a T5 swap over my stock 4spd will save some weight? i dont know.

Quote
Depends on your intended use for the car.

There are fibreglass front end parts, dashes, hatches, trunks and bumpers available for the Pinto, but that could add a chunk to the price tag.

Fiberglass is on the list, but not for a while. While small and relatively undesirable, i bet the rarity drives the price up. Right before i bought this car i missed a set ov quality FG fenders and hood for a couple hundred. Dammit...

Offline turbo74pinto

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2009, 07:39:50 AM »
my 74 is converted to small bumpers.  it was done by someone years ago.  the radiator lower crosmemeber on 74+ cars gets in the way of the early valance panel.  a sideways "I" was cut in the valance for clearance.  the rear lower valance panel hits the rear spring shackles so clearance needed to be made for those.  you have to look close at the front end pic but youll see it. 





bob
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Offline WagonNut

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 08:17:10 AM »
I have been interested in reading posts about weight savings. I saw somewhere that fiberglass fenders were not much lighter than steel. I parted out a 77 and was surprised when I lifted off the fenders. They are not heavy. I think that the glass hood would make a difference.Los e the latch and use hood pins. That would make solve the issue with converting to an earlier front end. More on weight savings... use a 2 bolt steering rack if you have a 3 bolt. The racks are interchangeabl e and save a bit of weight.Glass racing seats are another.

Offline Srt

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2009, 03:43:51 AM »
you wanna shave some weight get rid of the glass and go plastic.  better yet, pay attention to the motor & drive line and take advantage of an already light car.

the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline Pale Roader

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2009, 04:23:33 AM »
I have been interested in reading posts about weight savings. I saw somewhere that fiberglass fenders were not much lighter than steel. I parted out a 77 and was surprised when I lifted off the fenders. They are not heavy. I think that the glass hood would make a difference.Los e the latch and use hood pins. That would make solve the issue with converting to an earlier front end. More on weight savings... use a 2 bolt steering rack if you have a 3 bolt. The racks are interchangeabl e and save a bit of weight.Glass racing seats are another.

I can imagine they are not much lighter, but in a car this light/small, you shave weight by finding 1-5lbs here and there, not taking 40lb chunks off at a time. Whether 10-20lbs total is worth the money spent on FG is another question. That hood does seem a bit heavy though, sure slams hard when you let it close itself. I'm not gonna mess witht he rack anytime soon, so i'll have to live with that one, at least i dont have to convert to manual steering, its already there. The Pinto buckets cant be heavy, but i'm still willing to bet there are lighter import seats out there. The VW Scirocco seats i like to use are 33lbs each, and they are among the heavier sport-bucket seats. I'm not desperate enough to sit in those plastic racing buckets though...

And i would never use lexan windows. To me thats where the line between street and full race is crossed... I wouldn't even put lexan on a full all-out trailer only race car. I just dont like the stuff.

Turbo74pinto, its hard to make out much from that pic, maybe if one had a stock early pinto pic right beside to compare... But this swap is starting to seem like a fairly minor hassle. I bet with a good parts car and some attention to detail i could get this daily driver pretty close to 2000lbs, or at least under 2100...

Offline earthquake

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2009, 11:29:23 AM »
I have to disagree with Pale Roader.Being a biker whose gone down 3 times and a pinto owner whose been in a high speed crash I have a little insight on the subject.I'm also a tow operator whose dealt with over 4000 crashes.The pinto was a well built small car that held up very well when compared to most of the other small cars on the market.In may of 92 I found out how well built the pinto was when a gentleman decided he just could wait for me to pass and turned left in front of me :accident:.I struck his car,a 92 impulse in the side just behind the passenger door at 55 mph.Parts of the Impulse were found 100 feet from the point of impact,All I left was pieces of head light,turn signal,And the grill around the head light.The Impulse required a flatbed as both sides of the rear suspension were snapped off.The Pinto? I got back in my car and continued on my way with the troopers promise I would not be bothered about the broken headlight,Nice guy.It cost me $100.00 to fix the body damage,not counting paint.I contribute this to that large but ugly bumper.Had I been driving my 73 I have no doubt I would not have driven the car away.There was a bright spot in all this.The only witness to the accident was the Trooper who was sitting behind the guy,best possible witness.His insurance company said they were going to total my car and I told them to dream on.I reminded him who was at fault and who the witness was and proceeded out the door.Next thing I know he is asking me to hold on and picks up the phone And calls the body shop giving the lowest quote,$1750.00.They agree it could be done for $1700.00 and I had the check the next day.At this time a mint pinto went for $850.00,and I had paid $50.00 for this one 2 yrs earlier.I fixed my car and 19 yrs later it's still my daily driver,499,728 miles on the odometer.
73 sedan parts car,80 crusin wagon conversion,76 F 250 460 SCJ,74 Ranchero 4x4,88 mustang lx convertable,and the readheaded step child 86 uhhh Chevy 4x4(Sorry guys it was cheap)

Offline Pale Roader

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2009, 08:31:33 AM »

Haha, Earthquake, i'm sure its good compared to other small cars, but i'll never feel safe. My other cars are all, and have ALWAYS been big steel cars. They say the Smart Cars are pretty safe too, that fine, YOU drive the Smart car, i'll drive a 70 Imperial...

My friend has a first gen RX-7 (possibly the stiffest small car ever made, seriously!) with a 302/5-spd. Its got a legal cage and lots ov extra welding. I still dont feel safe in it.

I just like big cars. To me a 70 Challenger is a small car. Driving around in my Pinto took a LOT ov getting used to...

Offline earthquake

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2009, 11:00:33 PM »
The strength of the old steel is undeniable.but the best way to survive an accident is to avoid it in the first place.Don't get me wrong,I'm a big fan of the old shoe boxes and love wagons.I've never liked small cars until I got my first pinto.Since then I have had to rethink things a little. While it is true that the big card hold up better,the smaller cars are much more nimble making it easier to avoid the collision in the first place. 70 percent of collisions could have been avoided if only 1 of the drivers involved had been paying attention (small car helps here).The other 30 percent you want as much between you and you're opponent as possible (big car helps here).So in theory the small car has better survivability rate 70/30.Just a theory.   
73 sedan parts car,80 crusin wagon conversion,76 F 250 460 SCJ,74 Ranchero 4x4,88 mustang lx convertable,and the readheaded step child 86 uhhh Chevy 4x4(Sorry guys it was cheap)

Offline dga57

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2009, 01:22:02 AM »
The Pinto is the only small car that ever won my heart.  As far as safety goes in the event of an accident, I would much prefer to be in one of my '79 Lincolns instead.
Dwayne :smile:
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Offline Pale Roader

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2009, 05:27:36 AM »
The strength of the old steel is undeniable.but the best way to survive an accident is to avoid it in the first place.Don't get me wrong,I'm a big fan of the old shoe boxes and love wagons.I've never liked small cars until I got my first pinto.Since then I have had to rethink things a little. While it is true that the big card hold up better,the smaller cars are much more nimble making it easier to avoid the collision in the first place. 70 percent of collisions could have been avoided if only 1 of the drivers involved had been paying attention (small car helps here).The other 30 percent you want as much between you and you're opponent as possible (big car helps here).So in theory the small car has better survivability rate 70/30.Just a theory.   

Well, thats my thinking exactly, and why i insist on having real tires on all my cars... especially the lil' one. Z-rated dry-weather 245's and 275's on 17" rims so far, as soon as i get some hub-adapters made and some rims modified they'll be a lot bigger. I tell ya though... i'm like one ov those insane inner-city bike couriers when i'm driving that Pinto... UBER-aware and everything is a potential danger. Drive like you're a long-tailed cat in a room fulla rocking chairs and you'll do just fine...

But you GOTTA have good tires. I'll be upgrading the brakes to big 4-wheels discs as soon as i figure out what works too...

Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2009, 11:09:20 AM »
The Pinto is the only small car that ever won my heart.  As far as safety goes in the event of an accident, I would much prefer to be in one of my '79 Lincolns instead.
Dwayne :smile:
I hear ya Dwayne, my youngest son and some friends took my Lincoln to the beach and on the way they got rear-ended in traffic. Scuffed the bumper and knocked the license plate off the Lincoln, $4500 damage to the mid-sized car that hit them. (That car was towed away, the kids went on to the beach!)
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline dga57

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Re: An original Pinto question...
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2009, 12:32:34 AM »
I hear ya Dwayne, my youngest son and some friends took my Lincoln to the beach and on the way they got rear-ended in traffic. Scuffed the bumper and knocked the license plate off the Lincoln, $4500 damage to the mid-sized car that hit them. (That car was towed away, the kids went on to the beach!)


Amen to that!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.