Author Topic: Pinto will only stay running with pumpage or choke closed (Read 2341 times)

MitchiePinto · « **on:** October 28, 2012, 02:47:41 PM »

I had the car running great took it for a drive and parked it, then the following morning it wouldn't stay running without pumpage and wouldn't idle.

The gas was 1 1/2 years old when I bought the car but hey it still burned and ran, thought maybe it was the bad gas so I drained it and cleaned it out and ran high test though the lines till it was clear.

But nope still will not stay running, I also replaced the carb with a 2150 that was rebuilt....sti ll the same thing, tried a ranger 1bbl carb and still the same thing

The only thing I changed in the car where the spark plugs, it had the stock autolite plugs that were still good but I changed them for a set of NGK iridium plugs

Could it be the plugs,gap,coil or ?

When I ran the autolites they had a slight tan on them, now with the NGKs they are black and dusty coal looking

What is the proper gap for 2.3L plugs?

Also when I had the intake off I noticed a lot of carbon build up on the block ports

There where also no vacuum leaks I checked with propane

Should the block ventilation plug be plugged into the carb all the time because I plugged the port just for trialing the issue at the moment

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2012, 03:51:09 PM »

I'm thinking fuel pump is crapped out.

78_starsky · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2012, 04:57:15 PM »

hey pinto 5, not sure if that would be a prob for if the pump was shot wouldn't he be opposite with less gas than too much?

here is a pretty good breakdown of the 2150, that gives good descriptions and explains the set ups and the theory of how this carb works.

http://tekatlarge.net/Motorcraft-2150-2V-Carburetor-theory-and-operation.php

there is 6 pages that are written in plain english. hope this can help you set up the carb.

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2012, 05:10:37 PM »

When the pump in my '80 was failing I had the car floored & it was bucking like a bronco at 25 mph trying to limp it home. After I pulled in my drive it stalled & would only run with my foot to the floor & wouldn't go past 3.000 rpm in neutral.

He tried swapping carbs which is why I thought fuel pump. Not every pump fails the same way but it's a simple & cheap fix I'd try before digging too deep into other possibilities. 30 bucks & an hour to swap & at least you rule it out. The new pump will tolerate the ethanol blend fuel as well.

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2012, 06:10:06 PM »

Not sure if its the fuel pump 5.0 but I am having some of the same issues as you described like car not wanting to go over 3000 rpm in neutral (mine cant go over 4500rpm) etc..

I tried bottle feeding the carb but no differance but I also heard they need the 3-8 psi from pump to operate correctly

I really feel like its the plug gap or plugs itself, I took some steel whool to all the plugs and burned the crude with a torch and popped them back in and the car did run on its own for 30-50 secs.

My theroy is that the 2.3L is a high compression engine and having clean plugs and the right gap is critical

Thanks starsky il have a look at that link

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2012, 07:54:39 PM »

If you tried feeding the carb by hand & got nowhere it may be ignition related. A weak coil or one that's connected backwards will limit RPM & foul plugs. Try fresh plugs & swap on a spare coil if you have one.

71HANTO · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2012, 08:03:49 PM »

Quote from: MitchiePinto on October 28, 2012, 02:47:41 PM

The gas was 1 1/2 years old when I bought the car but hey it still burned and ran, thought maybe it was the bad gas so I drained it and cleaned it out and ran high test though the lines till it was clear.

You should also replace the fuel filter if you have not already, I like the clear plastic ones because you can see when they're bad.
71HANTO

Pinturbo75 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2012, 02:16:48 PM »

cracked distributor cap?

it can have the same symptoms

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2012, 05:09:00 PM »

Quote from: Pinturbo75 on October 29, 2012, 02:16:48 PM

cracked distributor cap? it can have the same symptoms

Oh yeah, forgot that possibility. Crappy plug wires(ESPECIALLY damp or wet) will misfire like crazy & refuse to stay running as well.

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #9 on:** October 29, 2012, 05:21:04 PM »

Ok guys I went to napa and bought a set of autolite copper core plugs and a coil, I just finished putting them in and no luck

I gapped the plugs at .034 as factory specs

My cap is not cracked

I think it is a vacuum leak coming from under the intake manifold, from a gasket failing. Since the last couple of weeks my car has been leaking antifreeze very slowly at stand still

but it might be the thermostat housing.

My block gets very hot but the rad hoses ,rad and intake stay cold like ice cold?.... Sign of intake gasket failure ?

Need this car to stay running so I can bring it to storage

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #10 on:** October 29, 2012, 05:25:53 PM »

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on October 29, 2012, 05:09:00 PM

Oh yeah, forgot that possibility. Crappy plug wires(ESPECIALLY damp or wet) will misfire like crazy & refuse to stay running as well.

OMG maybe maybe my car has an aborted hood alignment maybe rain dampened the inside of my distriburator cap.

Wires are still good.

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2012, 06:03:29 PM »

Try hosing the cap & wires with WD-40 after you check the underside for moisture. These hot/cold temp swings will yield a lot of comdensation.

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2012, 11:51:31 AM »

So now I just finished replacing the cap and rotor, my old cap and rotor had a lot of wear and tear on the metal pegs and the rotor looked rusty like.

The car still has the same issue but I can now tell that the new cap and rotor really helped, engine now sounds great and no missfiring but still wont stay running

I had a guy put his hand over the carb as I kept it running and it did not stall the car, just kept running

I think its the intake gasket

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2012, 02:55:26 PM »

There's nothing like having multiple problems all at once. Now that the ignition is sorted it should make trackin intake or carb leaks easier. Spraying starting fluid around the intake & base of the carb should narrow the leaks down.

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #14 on:** November 02, 2012, 04:48:57 PM »

I took apart my 2150 and found allot of sand/dirt in the metering rod and venturi cluster, socked it over night, blew it and reassembled it

Float was about 1/2 from top, so I adjusted it to 7/16 from top. Also found a vaccum leak from the right side and epoxied it.

Still no luck, still the same.

One intresting thing I found was when I pulled the fuel line off, so much pressue got contained in there that it shot gas like 6ft.... so maybe the needle and seat are stuck or not moving freely?

Also would the PV cause my car not to stay running, like is it part of the idle circuit or just used at WOT and loads

I filled the bowl with fuel though the top vent.. so even if the needle is sticking wouldn't there be enough fuel to run until the bowl empties

Intake gasket is still good, tested by antifreeze pressure test and brake cleaner while running

Maybe some bad cam lopes?

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 02, 2012, 08:24:30 PM »

Shouldn't be cam lobes. You said it ran fine one day then bad the next.

Before spending more money chasing it I would pop the timing cover off & verify that it didn't jump a tooth or 2 on the belt. It's free to check it.

Pressure in fuel line just means the bowl was full & needle was closed.

Back in Blue · « **Reply #16 on:** November 04, 2012, 12:24:00 PM »

Did you check your PCV valve to see if it is sticking.?? My 2300 was running like crap, changed that and it was fine.. Just another idea..

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #17 on:** November 04, 2012, 12:50:53 PM »

I have my PVC plugged at the moment so I could troubleshoot this issue, is the PVC mandatory for idling

I can't see it being the timing off a tooth because it did run the previous day, but if all else fails il check the timing

I found that my float rod that holds the float has a lot of play in it?

Beginning to think my pinto is possessed

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #18 on:** November 10, 2012, 04:49:42 PM »

Wondering if this is a low spark voltage issue?

I changed the mechanical fuel pump, intake gasket and siliconed the 1" rubber spacer to the intake to insure no leaks

No change so maybe its electrical?

What are some voltages, ohms and resistance tests I should be doing around the ignition system?

Replaced coil, cap & rotor, plugs & wires

tonij1960 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 10, 2012, 10:44:52 PM »

How far did you drive it the night before it started?

I had a 1979 wagon it ran ok to bring it home the next day it wouldnt stay running. I had the carb replaced, we changed the fuel pump and ignition module,fuel filter. It would go a few miles and stall out. Wait a little while it went a few more miles. We tried everything or we thought we did. It turned out to be the fuel sock the filter on the line inside the gas tank. I would blow out the line with an old bicycle pump to see if I heard bubbles in the tank and it ran ok for a few days. You just have to narrow it down pull off the fuel filter and stick a hose in a jar to see if its pumping enough gas. I waited until mine would stall then I did that and there was just a trickle.

Otherwise check to see if you smell gas like its loading up maybe. Pumping the gas is either adding more air or else its the accelerator pump adding more gas that makes a difference. Did you try changing the ignition module? I think I have a spare

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 11, 2012, 05:19:54 PM »

Tonij1960 may be onto something. I haven't had that happen for almost 20 years but in the early days of Ethanol blend fuels the socks would melt. If the tank hadn't been filled with gas for a long time it can get rusty & that comes loose & clogs the sock as well as the carb filter. Try running a fuel line from the pump into a jug of gas to see if it helps. Pinholes in the hard line are an issue in the rustbelt.

Also try bloking off all vacuum lines from the carb & intake, especially power brakes to eliminate a potential leak. A bad brake booster is a massive vacuum leak.

You eliminated everything besides the Duraspark box & distributor module.

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #21 on:** November 11, 2012, 07:51:47 PM »

Thanks guys, Il try feeding the pump with a gas jug, then Il take a punch and go though the carb fuel filter (if first method fails)

Il check the sock in the tank

I think the coil module failing would be very rare

I have a spare dist. module that Il change first

I also have no ballast resistor, looks like the previous owner hard wired it without one

thanks for the help

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 11, 2012, 10:25:39 PM »

It shouldn't have a ballast resistor. That would cut voltage below 12 volts.

tonij1960 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 11, 2012, 10:46:34 PM »

I would just take it off right at the carb and run a hose into a jar and check that whole system, is gas getting to the carb or not that one check is at the end of the line so to speak. I know a lot more about troubleshootin g electronics but this seems to make sense to me at least.

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #24 on:** November 19, 2012, 03:12:23 PM »

Today I put a line to a empty can and the pump is working well with a cheap presure gauge I bought and it read roughly 8 psi.

Last time I did the intake gasket I put the gasket on wet, I did not drain the coolant and just slapped on the intake with coolant rushing out.

So im going to redo my intake the right way.

Is there any good ignition diagrams for the 1980 pinto? I have one for a duraspark system but it only shows one ignition module?, I have two box type things on the drivers side?

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #25 on:** December 25, 2012, 03:19:12 PM »

After tons of research I'm wondering if its my ignition timing being too far retarded.

My vaccuum gauge reads 18" hg with choke open and a little over 20" hg with choke closed

Vaccuum was steady but when the car stalls out the vaccuum drops fast normal? or ?

Car sneezes but no backfire

Its like its not igniting the fuel, just blowing raw fuel though the pipe

Block get very hot within seconds but the rad and hoses stay cool

Unless some how the distruberator moved (witch I find impossible)

Also merry christmas everyone

Any info would be great as this would be my last try before I send the car in for repairs (which is a 2 1/2 hour drive/tow )

allendeloura · « **Reply #26 on:** January 06, 2013, 01:17:25 AM »

Just a thought. You say the car has point ignition. I would try replacing the coil with one from an electronic ignition system. This along with changing the points again...no need to do the condenser as if it had failed you would not be getting anything.

I have experienced the same type of events before. Motor would idle fine for a short while then she would appear to be suffreing from fuel starvation-which made no sense. Under load on the road the motor would fall off and or backfire. Chased these symptoms for a few hours thinking possibly a fuel issue, timing or vacuum leak(s) to no avail. Swapped in another regular points type coil and still the same symptoms. Then tried a coil from one of my electronic ignition cars and never had a problem again.

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 06, 2013, 02:24:49 PM »

Points ignitions have a resistance wire that cuts voltage to the positive side of the coil to roughly 5 volts. This keeps the output of the coil below 30,000 volts to avoid burning up the points. Electronic ignition coils have a higher output(42,000 V & higher) & eliminate the resistance wire & will fry points rather quickly.

The resistance wire will cut electronic coils output voltage as well but if that wire to the positive side of the coil is failing & only putting 2 or 3 volts to the coil this would cause the intermittent run issues & the electronic coil is simply a band-aid until the wire fails completely.

A simple test to check this is to run a wire with an alligator clip on one end direct from the battery to the positive terminal on the coil after unhooking the stock wire & fire up the engine. See if this eliminates the problem & if it does you will need to replace the resistance wire to fix it. Don't leave the direct hookup connected for long or you will fry the points after about 30 minutes or so. Also, don't hook it direct untill you are ready to fire it up because this can fry the points after 5 or so minutes if the engine isn't running.

MitchiePinto · « **Reply #28 on:** January 07, 2013, 07:30:20 PM »

I have electronic ignition,

I have 6.8v going to the pos end of the coil when ignitions on, starter silioud is new

I think its the carb a 1.21 2150, which might be sucking too much air for my stock block minus the headers, cam etc..

Im in the process of trying to re-bush a 2100 1.08 MC from the late 80's

Car falls flat on its face once you take the choke off or stop pumping

tonij1960 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 07, 2013, 11:10:15 PM »

ok I might sound stupid but ill try this one. I would think pumping the gas would just add gas to the bowl from the accelerator pump. Heres an idea, have you pulled the top of the carb off and looked to see how full the bowl is?

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Author Topic: Pinto will only stay running with pumpage or choke closed (Read 2341 times)