PINTO CAR CLUB of AMERICA
Welcome to FordPinto.com, The home of the PCCA => General Help- Ask the Experts... => Topic started by: krazi on November 03, 2005, 11:04:08 PM
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I was on my way back to work this evening, tooling down the hi-way at about 45 or 50 when it happened. the engine hiccupped, and stuttered, and died completely died when I shifted to neutral. I tried to start it, and it didn't want to fire. I checked the #1 plug wire, and it had spark. ok. I pulled off the air cleaner and looked and listened when I pumped the carburetor. I had fuel. I tried everything to get it to start. I called my auto instructor from high school, and he said to check the fuel for water. I'll do that tomorrow. he also said to squirt some carb spray down the airhorn, and if it starts, then I have water in the fuel. tried it, nothing happened. here's the specifications: '77 mercury bobcat wagon, 2.8 v6, motorcraft carb, c-4 trans, 8 inch rear. any help would be greatly appreciated.
krazi
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AHHHH!!!!!
The Old Stripped Fiber timming gear!!!!!
OUCH! You will have to take most of the fron of your V6 engine apart to replace the timing gears.
From Pintony
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take the distributor cap off and jump the solenoid with a screw driver and see if your rotor spins. if it dont then you are in for a long day or 2 or 3. lots of swearing. maybe some tool throwing. but on the bright side, racer walsh has a cool aluminum gear for the 2.8's.
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I know it isn't the cam gear, it isn't water in the tank, and it shouldn't be a locked distributor. I talked to my auto instructor from high school, and he said it might possibly be a broken rotor. the cam gear is aluminum or some metal, I made sure of that when I changed the cam when I put the engine in the car. I hope it's the rotor. thanks for the input.
krazi
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Even if the rotor looks fine, while you have the cap off crank the engine over and make sure the rotor is spinning. If it isn't spinning the distributor gear roll pin has sheared. It's rare but I've seen it happen. Even if it is spinning check that the engine is in time. #1 piston @ TDC compression stroke, pointer on 0 degrees, rotor pointing to number plug tower. If it isn't pointing to #1 tower find out why.
Bob
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oh fudge!! and you know what I mean by that. the rotor rotates, the fuel pump pumps, and I'm not sure if the compression rings compress. I have yet to pull the distributor, but when I was cranking it, it'd do this. > > > > < > > > > <. it'd crank like normal, then it'd stop at a hard spot, and then keep going. it also would spit a puff out of the carb every now and then. it's starting to get cold here in nebraska, so I might have to put the car into hibernation. :'(
krazi
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i would have to agree with early diagnoses it has jumped time, weather it be a belt or a gear
by the Wait thanks for the complement on my bobcat. :laugh:
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my pinto was doing the same thing execpt mine has been sitting for about 5 years how i fixed it is i pulled the valve cover off and made shure it was tdc and then took the distrubiter cap off it turned out that i when it was tdc it was pointing to the number 2 two tower now it fires and trys to run but i have to replace the fuel pump hope this helps some
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still won't start, still don't know what's wrong. distributor rotor is in the right place, and it still won't run. still upset that I can't get it to run.
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have you pulled every plug and looked at it? While you have the plugs pulled turn the motor over and see if there is still a tight spot. if the tight spot goes away with the plugs out. put one back in and see if it has a tight spot, keep putting them in until you identify the bad cyl. has it tried to start at all or does it just turn over and hit a tight spot and that's it? If it still hits that tight spot with all the plugs out, you have a crankshaft problem (spun bearing).
if the tight spot goes away with the plugs out. pull your valve covers. check the rocker movement and make sure all valves are getting the same travel. The cam lobes might have wiped out.
I hate to sound grim, but if everything is in time and it still wouldn't start while spraying something down the carb, then something is wrong internally. unless the duraspark module is messing up. There are 2 power wires to the duraspark, one supplies power from the igntion switch, and one comes from the starter solenoid circuit and tells the module that the car is trying to be started and changes the timing for starting purposes. if you have access to another module try plugging it in and seeinf if it starts, as far as I know there were only 2 different durasparks for the 70's one with a blue plug where the wires go into the module (standard module), and one with a white plug( california emissions module). Good luck.
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Great Info there DTD!
Keep the knowledge flowing~~~~~~~~~
From Pintony
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If you have no spark then it is DEFINITELY an ignition problem. By the way you have described your problem, I agree with the Demon, Spark control module#1 if thats not it, shear pin in dist. Just pull cap and crank over and see if it spins. EVEN if it spins it could be bad. I have had my v6 start running bad, pull cap, see it spin and think it O K, but it was not. I grabbed rotor by hand and gave it a twist, just to have it finally break on me. I'm still betting on module. You do not have to mount it to fenderwell to check it either, just plug it in. GOOD LUCK!!!
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here's what happened today. I finally got around to checking the spark module, and I believe that was it. it started and ran for about a minute, then died. I kept trying and it started popping out the exhaust. I'll get my timing light and try again. hopefully I can get it going today, because my truck just took a crap on me. I'm sure it was the fuel pump.
krazi
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that minute that it ran, was it running smoothly? If it was running smoothly then started acting up, it is pointing more and more to the dspark box. Any way I hope your truck didn't have diarrhea went it did that to you. ;)
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Might also be the stator in the distributor. I had to replace mine once and the new one worked for a few days and then left me sitting at a stop light. When i got the car home (on a tow truck) i took the distributor and stuff back out, retimed everything. it started and ran, revved good. cleaned the carb put the breather back on and everything else. Jumped in it for a test drive, got right out of my driveway and it stalled again and wouldnt restart. It did alot of the things you are describing. I had everything tested. Replaced the plugs, replaced the wires, cap and rotor weres new (as were plugs and wires, but i replaced them anyways, because i wasnt happy with what i got the first time) and it wouldnt run. Took the distributor back (was almost cheaper to buy a whole new distributor than just the stator in the distributor) and replaced it and now my car runs good again. I'm not mentally satisfied with the 2nd new distributor but it does run well and like it is supposed to. Might be something to check if all else fails. What i dont understand is how it still sparked but didnt run. Guess ill never know, but that was the problem for me.
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I got my truck running, found out it was the fuel pump. if it gets warmer here today, I'll go outside and do some more work on my car.if it is the stator, I'll just pull the distributor out of my '79 and try it in the bobcat. I hope it'll work.
krazi
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I had a 1975 Mustang II a few years back, 2.8, 4 spd . It did the same thing. By the time i found out that it was the pin that sheared in the dist. shaft, I'd spent quite a bit of additional cash, on changing parts. Brain box, wires, plugs ,etc.... I got a dist. from a freind of mine from his Capri, stuck it in & didn't have any more problems. Sound's like ya might want to check that dist. really close, if it's not the ign.control box ( brain box ).
sspncr
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thump-thump-thump-thump! that's the sound I got the bobcat to make! I pulled the dist. cap, and found the rotor loose. I pushed it back where it belongs, put the cap back on, and it started thumping when I turned it over. then I moved the distrubutor a little, tried to start it, and it fired right up! I pulled it in the driveway (for the first time in months!) and cleaned up all the broken glass. (vandalism zoops!) and after that, I put back in it's parking place out in the street. I gotta drive it to my friend's tonight and take him for a ride. I'm really happy I finally got it to run! thanks to everyone for your continued help!
:fastcar:
krazi
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:what: not even an ooh, aah, good job or even an I told you so? I'd like to offer everyone a one up for your support and suggestions, but I don't know how to do it.
I took the ol' 'cat out for a drive today. it purrs just like always, and my friend really liked it. I took it to the car wash and gave it a good scrubbing. (not an automatic carwash) hopefully someone local has some glass I can buy for next to nothing. and by early july, I hope to have it painted.
:fastcar:
krazi
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Hello Krazi,
That sucks that the vandals got to your pin-- ah.. er.. Bobcat.
Glad to hear to gave her a good bath and not just a sprinkle of colone.
I have glass sorry I'm so far away.
Are you going to KNOTTS show?
From Pintony
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Hey krazi, you're from nebraska, correct? I get out that way once in awhile, if the drivers door window is the same in a wagon as a car, I'll hook you up with one for next to nothin' as you put it. Congrats on getting your car to run. the car the window is in is a 77 or 78. I cant help with the other windows though.
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would a new air fresh'ner count?
Glad to hear to gave her a good bath and not just a sprinkle of colone.
From Pintony
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is the dist turning.
if im not mistaken they might have fiber cam gears
its been a long time since i seen a german motor tore down
forgot
now its time for a 351w
wayne
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is the dist turning.
if im not mistaken they might have fiber cam gears
its been a long time since i seen a german motor tore down
forgot
now its time for a 351w
wayne
I thought it was time for a 460...........
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is the dist turning.
if im not mistaken they might have fiber cam gears
its been a long time since i seen a german motor tore down
forgot
now its time for a 351w
wayne
Hello Wayne,
Is a 351 a BIG block?
From Pintony
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Now dat funy rite dere.
sorry for the bad grammar but i wanted him to be able to understand. ;)
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aluminum cam gear. put it in myself. distributor turns. rotor put back in place on shaft. newer spark module and coil. tank of fresh gas. and I moved out of the snow under it's own power. I think I'll build a 4 poppper for it. stroker crank, stovebolt sicks (6) rods, keith black pistons, twin side draft carbs, big shiney header, maybe with a switch between a glaspac goin out the back and a weed burner out the side.
krazi
is the dist turning.
if im not mistaken they might have fiber cam gears
its been a long time since i seen a german motor tore down
forgot
now its time for a 351w
wayne
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now now, it's not nights to mak fun of one wit a speets...er tiping impediment.
Now dat funy rite dere.
sorry for the bad grammar but i wanted him to be able to understand. ;)
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Have you found out whether or not a sedan door window will fit a wagon? Let me know so I can save the window for you if you want it. I think I might clean house soon, and the parts car will probably be going to the crusher. I'm getting tired of looking at the ones that dont move under their own power. NO FUN IF THEY DONT RUN! :lol:
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dirttrack
according to the parts sheet i have the windows have different part number , and the wagon was priced more .
hope this helps some
phils toys
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Ok, well sorry I cant help with the window then. Thanx for the info Phil.
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I finally fixed the window. a local used parts dealer had one for $40. I took it to the auto glass center and they installed it for me for $50. I appreciate everyone's help, and I would like to buy all the spare glass I can get.
krazi
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That's cool you got it fixed. And at a reasonable price. :fastcar:
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congrats on getting the window fixed, some how i missed this sooner. I just acquired some glass yesterday out of a wagon about to be crushed. both doors and the tail gate and a few interior parts. i don't know what was holding the seat in as there was no floor, but the best part all for FREE :lol: