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Author Topic: Bleeding brakes  (Read 592 times)

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Offline Jdm071755

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Bleeding brakes
« on: November 02, 2017, 04:35:06 PM »
Replaced calipers and pads I tried bleed brakes but I have a hard pedal this car is fighting me all the way


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Offline Jdm071755

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2017, 04:50:56 PM »
Replaced calipers and pads I tried bleed brakes but I have a hard pedal this car is fighting me all the way


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Oh I also replace the flexible brake line


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Offline robertwwithee

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2017, 05:28:56 PM »
Take bleeder all the way out and check its not filled with contamination.  Small drill bit from top and side hole to clear.

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Offline Jdm071755

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2017, 05:30:21 PM »
Take bleeder all the way out and check its not filled with contamination.  Small drill bit from top and side hole to clear.

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I'll give it a try
Thanks


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Offline Jdm071755

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2017, 05:40:38 PM »
I'll give it a try
Thanks


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I took the bleeder all the way out the pushed on the pedal still won't go down


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Offline pintosopher

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2017, 07:41:13 PM »
If the rotor won't move freely with the pedal released, the Proportioning valve may be stuck and won't allow the fluid to move to the calipers and allow the master cylinder to directly move the caliper pistons. This is a problem as the valve is no longer available . My 72 just recently pulled this trick, and I fear the whole system is going to need the parts replaced.
 If anyone has a source let us know..
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2017, 08:05:16 PM »
If the rotor won't move freely with the pedal released, the Proportioning valve may be stuck and won't allow the fluid to move to the calipers and allow the master cylinder to directly move the caliper pistons. This is a problem as the valve is no longer available . My 72 just recently pulled this trick, and I fear the whole system is going to need the parts replaced.
 If anyone has a source let us know..
Doesn't sound promising


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Offline robertwwithee

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2017, 09:33:39 PM »
I got a 79 prop valve that may work for ya.  I dont get home until nov 12 though


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Offline Jdm071755

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2017, 06:14:44 AM »
If the rotor won't move freely with the pedal released, the Proportioning valve may be stuck and won't allow the fluid to move to the calipers and allow the master cylinder to directly move the caliper pistons. This is a problem as the valve is no longer available . My 72 just recently pulled this trick, and I fear the whole system is going to need the parts replaced.
 If anyone has a source let us know..
My rotors spin freely. When I did the back brakes I was able to bleed the rear brakes. So not sure what to try next


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Offline pintosopher

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 07:01:26 AM »
From the sound of it, you would need to verify that any fluid is getting through the front Steel lines to the hoses. If none is there after applying pressure, then it's a sure thing that the Proportioning valve is stuck and isn't allowing the fluid to the front steel lines. Otherwise, I would make sure those new calipers aren't defective and stuck or clogged. There are some You Tube videos on servicing a valve, not Pinto specific, but possibly some help and very informative. ( Check out the Mercury Cougar one)
 Good luck and keep us posted,

 Pintosopher
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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2017, 01:40:21 PM »
From the sound of it, you would need to verify that any fluid is getting through the front Steel lines to the hoses. If none is there after applying pressure, then it's a sure thing that the Proportioning valve is stuck and isn't allowing the fluid to the front steel lines. Otherwise, I would make sure those new calipers aren't defective and stuck or clogged. There are some You Tube videos on servicing a valve, not Pinto specific, but possibly some help and very informative. ( Check out the Mercury Cougar one)
 Good luck and keep us posted,

 Pintosopher
Ok what I did was disconnected the metal brake line from the flex line on the drivers side and still a hard pedal


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Offline pintosopher

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2017, 01:55:44 PM »
That combination Proportion valve is stuck, allowing fluid to move to the rear wheel cylinders only. A sure sign would be the fluid in the master cylinder only drains from the one half that you can bleed (rear).
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Offline Jdm071755

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2017, 03:26:58 PM »
That combination Proportion valve is stuck, allowing fluid to move to the rear wheel cylinders only. A sure sign would be the fluid in the master cylinder only drains from the one half that you can bleed (rear).
Now the problem is finding a valve. I did find this

https://www.musclecarresearch.com/valve-kit-kh-D7DZ


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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2017, 05:41:37 PM »
Proportion valves can be taken apart and made to work again.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Jdm071755

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2017, 05:44:33 PM »
Proportion valves can be taken apart and made to work again.
I found a rebuild kit. It it worth getting?

https://www.musclecarresearch.com/valve-kit-kh-D7DZ


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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2017, 10:38:22 AM »
Looks like a very though out kit with all the parts necessary. Go for it.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2017, 01:00:53 PM »
Looks like a very though out kit with all the parts necessary. Go for it.
Trying to get brake lines off of proportional valve. Striped one so far. It seems 7/16 wrench is a little sloppy in fit. What is correct size?



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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2017, 01:35:24 PM »
What you need is a brake fitting box in wrench that has a slot on one side to allow it to be slip'd over the brake line. DO NOT buy a cheap one as it will take a lot of pulling to break the fitting loose. Look on e-bay for a picture of one.
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Offline Jdm071755

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2017, 07:06:26 PM »
What you need is a brake fitting box in wrench that has a slot on one side to allow it to be slip'd over the brake line. DO NOT buy a cheap one as it will take a lot of pulling to break the fitting loose. Look on e-bay for a picture of one.
I tried this tool 7/16 end and it did not work. Is this what you are talking about?


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Offline russosborne

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2017, 09:55:19 PM »
Yes, that is the type Dick is talking about. Can't tell from the picture what brand it is. Cheap ones (in wrenches in general) have a tendency to be not quite the right size. Or the nut may have just gotten a little wore. I've never had good luck with one once it starts to round off.
Have you tried soaking the joint in something like PB blaster?
In the past I've ended up having to use vise grips, which will ruin the nut. But sometimes you don't have a choice.
Russ
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2017, 11:28:17 AM »
Would not hurt to heat the fitting before trying to break it loose. MAKE sure the wrench fits tight. Metric wrench's will not work so don't use one. The wrench to use is 5/16 or 3/8 inch. You will know the right end when you try the wrench.
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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2017, 03:07:19 PM »
I went to our hardware store and got a name brand wrench for under $10.00.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2017, 05:00:17 PM »
Those are called "Flair Nut Wrenches." Unfortunately if you tried a regular open end wrench first (been there, done that) the nut likely distorted and then even the flair nut type can have issues. Sometimes I have had to resort to vise grips that mangle everything. I've even had tubing that stuck to the nut so tightly that when the nut finally turned it just twisted the tube too! Try a penetrating oil (and some heat like Dick mentioned). No guarantee it will work but it is an approach of last resort.

Offline Jdm071755

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2017, 09:17:09 PM »
Those are called "Flair Nut Wrenches." Unfortunately if you tried a regular open end wrench first (been there, done that) the nut likely distorted and then even the flair nut type can have issues. Sometimes I have had to resort to vise grips that mangle everything. I've even had tubing that stuck to the nut so tightly that when the nut finally turned it just twisted the tube too! Try a penetrating oil (and some heat like Dick mentioned). No guarantee it will work but it is an approach of last resort.
Thanks everyone. I will try some hear and see what happens. I'll let you know how I make out


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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2017, 10:01:45 PM »
The flair nut wrenches taper on the contact surface. If you can tap the wrench on the nut it make sung up and help - a little. Every little bit helps.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2017, 12:03:43 PM »
I still think the way to go would be to remove the other of the brake line and slide a box end down the brake line to the stuck fitting. A box end wrench would grip the fitting much better.
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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2017, 01:20:44 PM »
I still think the way to go would be to remove the other of the brake line and slide a box end down the brake line to the stuck fitting. A box end wrench would grip the fitting much better.
Got it out. Now I'll take it apart and see what's wrong


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Re: Bleeding brakes
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2017, 10:17:57 AM »
Let us know what you find inside. If I remember right, there is a threaded hole in center of the fitting. Remove what ever is screwed in the hole and replaced it with a bolt. Use this bolt to make sure the part that slides back and forth stays centered while your replacing the part. Just make the bolt finger tight. Bleed the brakes and then remove the bolt.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.